Duct Tape: Proof of Moon Hoax? Maybe!!!

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by x2Strongx
What about the "Out-Gassing" of the adhesive?

What I am saying... is what we saw on TV in 1970 wasn't actually on the moon.

Doesn't matter, it's not like it was a lasting solution. And I've said it once I've said it a million times, since it's something still used today then it couldn't have been part of a hoax, a conspiracy, or a coverup. It doesn't matter whether your "alternative" theory is that it was a hoax or simply that the footage and story we saw were fake; both reject the original footage for false reasons. The alternative presented after the rejection is irrelevant. Both would have to reject shuttle missions for the same reasons if intellectual honesty were present. Are you saying the story given to us about STS-114 was fake?

[edit on 26-10-2009 by ngchunter]

Where did I say that STS-114 was fake?

Oh yeah... to show that Duct Tape wasn't used on STS-114, take a look at this source.
Source

Following a problem on the previous EVA where latches on a SAFER became detached, Kapton tape was used to ensure the latches remained closed on this EVA.[11] Kapton tape was used rather than the duct tape (which the shuttle program calls "grey tape") as it is smoother.

Oh yeah... since it is something still used today... it couldn't be a hoax. Yeah, that makes sense. Guess you can go on saying it a million more times.

You know... if you gave some evidence and sources to argue, I would be more than happy to debate the issue with you.

Originally posted by x2Strongx
Where did I say that STS-114 was fake?

You didn't, and that's just my point; intellectual honesty would demand rendering equal conclusions about STS-114.

Oh yeah... to show that Duct Tape wasn't used on STS-114, take a look at this source.

That's STS-121, not 114. The SAFER system is infinitely more important than a fender and the tape needs to absolutely hold it for 7-8 hours, not just 1. It also needs to be able to withstand torque as the SAFER system would be putting forces toward and/or away from the astronaut if it had to be used, potentially putting tugging forces on the tape in a life or death situation. It's not just something you can afford to risk coming loose and patch in the middle of its use. You can, however, do the latter with either a fender or a makeshift tool.

For STS-114, Steve Robinson fashioned a hacksaw for use during EVA out of a blade and duct tape:

www.veveo.net/video/Astronaut+Making+In-Space+Repair+To+Shuttle%2527s+Belly/CL0009231106_5fd336654_V0lLSTUwMzIyNX5pbjo3fnE6YnJ-Ync6V0lLSTUwMzIyNQ

too long for ats hotlinking.

Oh yeah... since it is something still used today... it couldn't be a hoax. Yeah, that makes sense. Guess you can go on saying it a million more times.

So you're now saying STS-114 could be a hoax? If you're going to suggest that shuttle missions are fake, or at least what we see and hear is fake, you'll find that far fewer people take you seriously any more. There's a good reason for that; shuttle missions are presently verifiable, whereas you have to dig up very old evidence to verify apollo missions. The net result is that very few people will find a shuttle conspiracy to be a believable theory. Any layman can look around and find ample evidence from amateurs that the shuttle and ISS missions are real and take place just as described.

You know... if you gave some evidence and sources to argue, I would be more than happy to debate the issue with you.

I already did that several posts ago when I first mentioned STS-114:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 26-10-2009 by ngchunter]

Nasa... duct tape?... lol...
They wouldnt even know how to use it!

Certainly proves that they were in a studio and that they probably hired a mechanic firm to help them set up the gear!

Originally posted by loctite
Certainly proves that they were in a studio and that they probably hired a mechanic firm to help them set up the gear!

So is it also proof to you that STS-114 was in a studio? Where's the intellectual honesty? By the way, according to this book, at least at the time of printing in 2004, duct tape was standard issue for EVA gear for quick fixes:
books.google.com/books?id=g8PW0_WNTDsC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=shuttle+eva+duct+tape&source=bl&ots=Dl4o5mZgoZ&sig=fVieSfsD4rSqAmdozSO6hpn8BRo&hl=en&ei=ftj lSqCNA8-m8Aaw8piIBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CA8Q6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=shuttle%20eva%20duct%20tape&f=false

[edit on 26-10-2009 by ngchunter]

reply to post by ngchunter


I'm not finding anything conclusive that says that they actually used a hack-saw made with a blade and duct tape. From some of the sources that I found, it says that could use something like that... but was able to pull the filler or whatever kind of material out.

In addition... The maps taped together with duct-tape and clamped to the moon rover lasted 15 hours... not just one as you claim. The first tape fender lasted for an hour... then they taped laminated maps together and clamped it to the fender.

Saying that shuttle missions are a hoax... I'm not saying that at all. If they used duct tape on a hacksaw for sure... then I have no problem dropping this subject entirely. Actually, I'm looking for evidence to say that it duct tape could work in the vacuum of space and hold up to the extreme temperatures, etc... but I haven't been able to find it.

Here's a quote directly from the deputy shuttle program manager John Shannon...

He said the universal fix-it tool -- duct tape -- was discussed, but quickly discarded. "Duct tape doesn't work in the vacuum of space," he told reporters at Johnson Space Center.

Source

reply to post by x2Strongx


Oh now, come on and admit it! There is no "Moon Hoax" based on duct tape. All you did in your latest post is RE-POST a link from your OP -- one that has already been satisfactorily explained.

Shall I direct everyone's attention back to Page 1?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by x2Strongx

 

Oh now, come on and admit it! There is no "Moon Hoax" based on duct tape. All you did in your latest post is RE-POST a link from your OP -- one that has already been satisfactorily explained.

Shall I direct everyone's attention back to Page 1?

Admit it... I cannot at this time. Listening to your explanation on what he "Meant to say".... is like me listening to the MSM media and believing everything they have to say.


As far as the repost of a source I listed on page one... Yes I did repost that in reply to another. I won't deny it... It was a reply to someone that was arguing that there were other circumstances where duct tape has been used in the vacuum of space. I guess I should have put up a link to my original post or quoted that.

Originally posted by x2Strongx
reply to post by ngchunter

 

I'm not finding anything conclusive that says that they actually used a hack-saw made with a blade and duct tape.

It's pretty explicit in the sources I listed.

From some of the sources that I found, it says that could use something like that... but was able to pull the filler or whatever kind of material out.

They made the tool for the EVA ahead of time, they didn't wait to make it until after finding out whether or not the gap filler was too difficult to remove. I thought that was pretty self-explanatory in the cited material. If duct tape were completely useless in space it would be proof of a hoax for them to bring something like that made out of duct tape with them on an EVA to begin with.

In addition... The maps taped together with duct-tape and clamped to the moon rover lasted 15 hours... not just one as you claim.

Changing goalposts - it lasted for one hour and ONLY one hour when duct tape was the main force holding it together. It then had to be redone using clamps precisely because the duct tape didn't hold, supporting the notion that it's only good for temporary fixes. This is what I've already gone over, why are you trying to suggest that I'm claiming something different?

Saying that shuttle missions are a hoax... I'm not saying that at all.

I keep having to repeat myself; I know you're not and that's the point. You SHOULD be saying it by your own standards of evidence and logic.

If they used duct tape on a hacksaw for sure... then I have no problem dropping this subject entirely.

Not only did they use it to make a hacksaw, as of 2004 they had it on hand as part of every EVA's standard equipment packedge according to the book I linked to on my previous post if you'll just look up a bit.

Actually, I'm looking for evidence to say that it duct tape could work in the vacuum of space and hold up to the extreme temperatures, etc...

That's a strawman argument. It's becoming quite clear you're only looking at evidence selectively and ignoring the entire point which is not whether duct tape could hold up to the maximal temperatures and minimal pressures, it's whether or not duct tape is occasionally useful as a temporary fix. Things do not assume maximum temperature in space instantly, they only do so gradually because vacuum is a great insulator and in many situations the duct tape isn't even exposed to direct sunlight non-stop.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by ngchunter]

Originally posted by x2Strongx
Here's a quote directly from the deputy shuttle program manager John Shannon...

So you're deliberately taking a simplified PR quote out of the context of a situation for which everyone freely admits duct tape would be inapporpriate for and trying to make it seem like it's talking about a different situation? Let's look at the situation here; a torn thermal blanket requiring a permanent fix that will survive the aerodynamic forces of re-entry and hypersonic turbulence vs a temporary makeshift tool and a very temporary rover fender repair. Yes, in the case of repairs to thermal blanks outside the shuttle where there is concern about damage to the orbiter should it come loose during re-entry, it's best not to use duct tape. Duh. Even if duct tape worked just as well in space as it does on earth I doubt that'd be an appropriate way to fix it. You need a much stronger way of holding it, like the wire threading that was discussed.

So you are saying without a doubt... that the same duct tape that was used on the moon rover was used on the shuttle missions? Same chemical composition same adhesives...?



[edit on 10/26/2009 by x2Strongx]

Where are the tracks from the wheels when they drove the rover out of the lander? I mean shouldn't there be tire tracks? There are footprints but no tire tracks.
Can anyone explain that one to me? Oh wait,. I'm sure they unpacked it in pieces and put it together right beside the lander like a giant tinker-toy. Is that how they did it?

I know it's not on the subject of duct tape but the pic IS posted in this thread. Sorry for going down that bunny trail.

Originally posted by pwrthtbe
I'm sure they unpacked it in pieces and put it together right beside the lander like a giant tinker-toy. Is that how they did it?

Pretty much yeah. It folds up so that it can fit inside the descent stage of the Lunar Module. There's an episode of Moon machines that focuses on the Lunar rover. Here's part 1 of 5, if your interested. They show how it all folds up.

As for the lack of tire tracks. Every time they'd stop at a geology station, the astronauts would get out and walk around to the back of the rover, as that is were they kept most of the tools and other equipment. There feet tend to kick up a lot of dust, which ends up covering the tracks directly behind the rover. Here's a photo from Apollo 15 that shows this clearly.

reply to post by jra


Thanks. That makes sense. I need to watch that series I guess.

Originally posted by x2Strongx
So you are saying without a doubt... that the same duct tape that was used on the moon rover was used on the shuttle missions? Same chemical composition same adhesives...?

I'm saying the evidence that duct tape was used to make an EVA tool on STS-114 is no different from the evidence it was used in Apollo. If you want to prove that there was something impossible about the apollo duct tape that was magically better about the shuttle duct tape adhesive, etc, it's up to you to prove that claim. Otherwise a rejection of apollo based on this evidence would equally require a rejection of the shuttle. You don't get to assume superior adhesives must exist exclusively for the shuttle duct tape just because you don't want to reject the shuttle; that's clearly bias. You must prove something changed that would make its use fit your standards for non-rejection (which seem to be that it should work indefinitely, not just for an hour the way it actually worked).

[edit on 27-10-2009 by ngchunter]

Here is the CSM from Apollo 17 - look at all the pretty tape:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7cdae50b8914.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a0f25589dcd1.jpg[/atsimg]

Of course we went. Maybe. Probably. I guess.

reply to post by Exuberant1


That isn't "duct tape"!!!!!

This has already been thoroughly discussed and explained.

I wish these sorts of adolescent comments weren't something to have to deal with...anymore.

reply to post by Exuberant1


That's not scotch tape, that's kapton tape, the same kind that was definitely used to secure the SAFER backpack to the shuttle astronaut when the latches came loose. Kapton was used extensively throughout apollo, but if you have a problem with NASA using kapton tape, you have a problem with the shuttle/ISS as well (unless you're being intellectually dishonest). And "double" shadow? I see a reflection of the window frame's shadow within the window, but I certainly see no "double shadows."

For anyone fooled by the deceptive cropping of the "2 perfectly equal photo comparison" it might help to see the full context of the supposedly no-kapton tape image:
www.lpi.usra.edu...
High resolution here:
history.nasa.gov...
He cropped it to just the part reflecting the moon to make it look like it wasn't reflective at all. It's a lie, it's really still quite shiny and reflective from all the aluminized kapton. You can still see the edges of the tape on the side with all the bright specular reflections in the high res version.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by ngchunter]

reply to post by ngchunter


Thanks ngchunter -- that "full" photo (rather than the cropped version) is very telling. It is obvious that the spacecraft was highly reflective.

I don't understand what some hoax believers were hoping to prove when they originally presented the disinformation in that cropped picture.

it just makes them look dishonest and deceitful.


[edit on 10/28/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

reply to post by ngchunter


In all fairness (can't believe I just wrote that!) to Exuberant....HE didn't do the cropping.

He cropped it to just the part reflecting the moon to make it look like it wasn't reflective at all. It's a lie...

He was fooled, as many seem to be, by the deceptiveness of others....don't shoot the messenger (even when he brings lies...).