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You do NOT own your car/truck/SUV!

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posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Pauligirl
 




The MCO or MSO is the manufacturer's papers. Shows when and where the vehicle was built and if tariffs involved if imported. When you buy the car/truck/trailer, the MSO is turned in and you get a title in your name. If it wasn't done this way, there would be nothing to show you owned the vehicle.


This is absolutely not true and as a former inventory manager for a General Motors Franchise Dealership who ordered and received cars including their MCO's directly from the Factory I have dealt with thousands of MCO's and it's important to understand an MCO is like a bearer bond. The fact that you posses the MCO and the MCO establishes the precise vehicle through it's Vehicle Identification Number and it's place and date and manufacturer of origin does legally in fact identify you as the owner simply because you are in possession of the MCO. Only the actual owner of the vehicle can posses the MCO, at the moment a lien is taken out on the vehicle the MCO goes to the lien holder to establish it's ownership as collateral.




[edit on 23/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

As far as I know everything you said is correct. But it didn't really contradict anything I said. You did the long version, I did the short version.
The MCO or MSO is the manufacturer's papers are they not?

Don't they shows when and where the vehicle was built and if tariffs involved if imported?

When you buy the car/truck/trailer, the MSO is turned in and you get a title in your name, right? (even if you pay cash for it)

If it wasn't done this way, there would be nothing to show you owned the vehicle. The MSO doesn't have the buyer's name, like a title does. I know this is the part everybody hates, but the state has to know who owns what to try to make sure you have insurance.

Say you drive an unregistered vehicle, and you leave the MSO in the glovebox. I steal it. I now have the car and proof of ownership. Other than catching me and kicking my butt (which I have no doubt you could do) what do you have as proof of ownership? This really is a serious question. If that VIN number is not registered with the state in your name,what do you have?

Edited to remove large quote.


[edit on 10/23/2009 by Pauligirl]




posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by Pauligirl
 


The reality is the MCO/MSO is the actual ownership certificate.

Why the States destroy the MCO/MSO is to prevent anyone else from ever legally establishing ownership.

Under common law versus corporate law, possession is 9/10th of the law.

If I am in possession of the car and I am in possession of the MCO/MSO then clearly I own said car.

A lot of your argument regarding insurance and registering entities is a well intentioned and considered one but naive as well and opens people up who think that way to being manipulated and abused by government.

If I hit your car with my car, and I get out of said car and you get out of said car, you know I am driving said car, I know you are driving other said car.

Human being to human being. Now maybe I have insurance and maybe I don't have insurance, maybe I have insurance and don't want to use my insurance.

Maybe your car has 400.00 worth of damage and I know I am at fault and being honest about it and you know too that maybe your car has 400.00 worth of damage.

So I say to you. You know what looks like you have 400.00 worth damage there and you are all right, right? No broken bones, no dizyness, your not bleeding anywhere right?

You say yep I think that will be 400.00 I am fine are you alright. After all we care because we are human beings, not bar codes, or ID numbers, but people who have been thrust together by fate and circumstances to share a common crisis and problem.

I am fine I reply, I pull out my wallet not to give you my insurance card, not to give you my drivers license but to give you 5 crisp Benjamin Franklins and say hey, here is 500.00 dollars, here is my cell phone number, you call me if it turns out to be more. I have to run alright?

Sure, thanks.

Now here is the reality you already had a dent there, your car is 7 years old, the new dent is just another dent in a car that has a few. Your car is mechanically fine, runs good and nothing mechanical was damaged, just cosmetics.

You pocket the 500.00 and go buy a new Espresso Machine!

I go home thankful that the police never showed up to smell that peculiar odor in my car.

I am happy, you are happy.

Sound unrealistic. That's exactly what happened in the last auto accident I was in. I had insurance, it was cheaper just to pay the little bit of damage done.

Imagine that two human beings, working out a little problem with out the state, with out attorneys, with out insurance companies, without police and both happy with the outcome.

As well they should justice and a remedy was made on the spot. No one else profited off of it, no one else delayed it, no one else made it more expensive or take longer so they could profit off of it.

You didn't need a big brother, I didn't need a big brother.

The fact of the matter is the State really does own everyone's vehicle because they take the only Instrument that denotes absolute ownership and incumber it for as long as you own it with taxes and fees and the minute you fail to pay those taxes and fees you either loose your privelage to use the vehicle or you loose the vehicle all together.

What does the state do with it? Turns around and sells it to someone else. Why? Because it's the State's Vehicle? Why because they tricked you in to donating it to the State.

Your Driver's License actually establishes you as an employee of the State which is a corporation.

Driver means Teamster and Livery Person. License is a Permit to break the law, what law are you breaking? The Constitution which says the State nor the Federal Government has the right to impede or limit your movement from State to State. By giving them permission to give you permission you are actually breaking Constitutional Law and signing a Corporate Contract.

Don't think you are a Teamster? Your car probably has a minimum of 180 horses perhaps up to over 500 horses depending on the kind. Don't think you are a livery person? If you transport other Human Beings who are all registered property of the Corporate State through Birth Certificates which are actually just Bills of Laden and Title even if they are just your children or your mom, you are a livery person working for the state by transporting state property.

The Constitution had 3 laws. You are not allowed to murder, steal or commit Treason.

The Corporate Military Dictatorship that runs the Country has 600,000 laws and growing.

Your Certificate of Title is actually a Certificate of Gift to the State, remember the nice person who said and print your name there IN ALL CAPITOL LETTERS? Your corporation which is you, gave the State Corporation Title which is why all you have is a Certificate of it.

Kind of like my friends went to Las Vegas and all I got was this T-shirt!

That's just crazy talk?

I didn't sell my car to buy a Bicycle, turn in my Driver's License and send my Social Security Card back to the Government for nothing.

Your arguments and beliefs are well intentioned but the reality is they are an advocacy for economic and corporate slavery.

You know who owns my Bicycle? I do and all I have to do is sit on it or have it in my possession to establish that fact.

You know where I drive it? Just about every place you drive your car, on all the same roads, but the sidewalks and lawns too!

Do I have to have a license? No, why? It has no horses, it uses human power not horse power!

Do I have to pay taxes on it? No because I own it, it's mine not the states.

Do I have to have it insured? Nope I sure don't I can run over little old ladies and school children with impunity you know why?

Because I am not working for the state and don't have to insure the state from damages because I own my bicycle not the state.

The Original Poster is absolutely 100% correct. That State Owns your Vehicle.

If people actually arbitrated their own reasonable disputes without the aide of the state and attorneys and insurers?

Not only would everyone have money, but things would cost a whole lot less.

That 500.00 dollars I gave you for the $400.00 in damage that Dent Wizard would fix like knew for $199.00, go into any body shop and tell them you are paying cash, they will write you out an estimate for $350.00 tell them it's for your insurance company and the estimate will be $1,900.00.

Everyone one wins in the current system really but the human being who gets to pay and pay and pay one way or another.

The system is broke, and in part it's because life was meant to be a fluid thing especially here in the old United States before it was turned into a corporation where our founders intended to live under Nature's Law.

Nature doesn't have a rigid series of systems.

Nature doesn't enslave people to a rigid series of systems.

Nature doesn't attempt to convince people it's in their best interest and security and safety to become enslaved to a rigid series of economically penalizing and thought robbing systems.

The Government does.

Say no to Government, say yes to Nature, buy a bicycle, it's the best thing I have ever done!

Peace.



[edit on 23/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



AWESOME post, Protoplasmic Traveler! A star for you was the least that I could do for you. Thank you for that.


And I think I know what that "peculiar smell" was in your car.



Many times I have traveled -- notice that I did not say "drive" and I have not said "drive" for many years -- with "peculiar smells" in my horseless carriage, so I was doubly careful everywhere I went, so I did not have to deal with a fender-bender incident that you so ably handled with aplomb and awareness.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


All that's lovely, and I sincerely hope that some unregistered, unlicensed, uninsured, and unmoneyed person never runs into you.

I still think that you are wrong, but it doesn't really matter.

Enjoy your bike riding.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Great post!

Theoretically government is an extension of the people it should serve but doesn't serve, because it serves corporate interests. We are also part of this elusive corporation and don't realise it.

Government does not have to be evil and should not be evil. It became evil because people were either ignorant or indifferent. Over time this monster got bigger and bigger till we reach the present. It's like spoiling your children at a young age with anything they could ever want till they grow up to be shallow, arrogant and indifferent. The US government, as well as many other national governments, have been spoiled to death and are in dire need of a reality check.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by Pauligirl
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


All that's lovely, and I sincerely hope that some unregistered, unlicensed, uninsured, and unmoneyed person never runs into you.

I still think that you are wrong, but it doesn't really matter.

Enjoy your bike riding.


Wouldn't matter if they did because, the State has an uninsured motorist fund to repair your car (the State's Property).

The State also has a public health trust to get you (It's property) back to work and paying taxes!

The State also offers Public Transportation.

Nature also provided legs, friends, and neighbors.

The reality is before there was insurance, there was just people helping people!

Now days most people are afraid to let their children sell a glass of home made lemonade at a stand to earn a few dollars because the State might ticket them for not having a license, and some one who bought a cup might sue them if they get sick because the Lemonade wasn't Department of Agriculture inspected, and one site Administrator here on ATS (I won't mention Craueker by name) actually said he would be afraid to buy lemonade from a child's stand in case it were a terrorist plot to poison him.

Heck of a world this State is building. Some people need a lot of security as they are pretty sure even kids selling lemonade represent a threat to them.

Me I say live and let live.

Thanks for posting.

Legally though who is ever in physical possession of a MCO/MSO is the vehicles absolute Defacto and Dejure owner and no other entity or person can superced that combination legally of possession of the MCO/MSO coupled with possession of the vehicle.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Driver means Teamster


It also means a golf club for hitting long, low drives from the tee. It doesn't make me one of those either.


Don't think you are a Teamster? Your car probably has a minimum of 180 horses perhaps up to over 500 horses depending on the kind.


I just took a quick look in my garage and didn't see any horses. Opened the hood of my car but they weren't hiding in there. Just this big block of metal with lots of hoses and wires attached to it, commonly called an engine. Capable of producing the same amount of work that 333 horses could produce but definitely isn't a horse. Therefore, I must not be a teamster.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by erwalker
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Driver means Teamster


It also means a golf club for hitting long, low drives from the tee. It doesn't make me one of those either.


Don't think you are a Teamster? Your car probably has a minimum of 180 horses perhaps up to over 500 horses depending on the kind.


I just took a quick look in my garage and didn't see any horses. Opened the hood of my car but they weren't hiding in there. Just this big block of metal with lots of hoses and wires attached to it, commonly called an engine. Capable of producing the same amount of work that 333 horses could produce but definitely isn't a horse. Therefore, I must not be a teamster.


You might want to check a dictionary as in a legal dictionary for the legal definition of Driver.

Second all car engines are rated in Horse Power. Horse Power is the absolute standard for engines that propel vehicles.

Fell free to consult your vehicles manufacture web site for the Horse Power on your car.

Speaking of horses, you know you can lead them to water but you can't make them drink.

Thanks for posting a reply friend.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



You might want to check a dictionary as in a legal dictionary for the legal definition of Driver.


Just did. No reference to "teamster".


Second all car engines are rated in Horse Power. Horse Power is the absolute standard for engines that propel vehicles.


Actually, they are rated in horsepower (one word) though the actual rating can vary depending on the standard used (SAE net, DIN, etc). The only official power measurement unit for rating engines in the EEC is the kW. So much for horsepower being the absolute standard. No flesh and blood horses involved any more.


Fell free to consult your vehicles manufacture web site for the Horse Power on your car.


What part of “Capable of producing the same amount of work that 333 horses could produce…” would prompt you to suggest the above.

M3 – 333 hp SAE net
323i – 143 hp DIN
2002tii – 147 hp SAE gross, 130 hp DIN

No manufacturer’s website required.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by Historical-Mozart
...
First of all, the bare basics about the MSO:

en.wikipedia.org...


The MSO is defined as:


Manufacturer's Statement of Origin [ M.S.O.] -
A new vehicle certificate which is submitted to the local DMV in exchange for a title of ownership


I got the quote from this site...

www.svpvril.com...



Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, don't have time just now, so if this has already been pointed out to you, I apologize in advance.

You you link to Wikipedia, then link to something else entirely to obtain your (incorrect) definition. Did you read the Wiki article?

I have seen this scam before, there is a guy that does seminars, at many hundreds of dollars a seat, to preach this 'revelation'. There is nothing right about it at all, and if you try to act on it, you will be very disapointed at the minimum. You will never, ever, find anyone who has successfully and legally avoided paying registration fees due to this loophole because they simply do not exist.

The Wikipedia definition of the MSO is:


A Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO), also known as a Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin (MSO), is a specified document certifying the country of origin of the merchandise required by certain foreign countries for tariff purposes, it sometimes requires the signature of the consulate of the country to which it is destined.

A Certificate of Origin is employed to certify that a good being exported either from the United States into Canada or Mexico or from Canada or Mexico into the United States qualifies as an originating good for purposes of preferential tariff treatment under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).


There is nothing there that has anything to do with conferring title to anyone for anything. It merely states the country of origin.

Period.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by rnaa
Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, don't have time just now, so if this has already been pointed out to you, I apologize in advance.


Hi maa,


Please read the thread. It has definitive information that fully supports the OP in this thread.


And, regarding my use of the www.svpvrl.com site, yikes, I wish that I did not use it. I already had complained about that site in my OP, but my original huge database of legal/Law information was destroyed when my previous computers totally crashed, so I don't have much of a database now.


But, other than that, the OP is 100% correct.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 04:23 AM
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Quite interesting, I don't even think I want to own my SUVs anymore. Not because they are considered gas guzzlers, it's just my wife hates getting in and out of them. I do want to keep my 88 suburban, it is a beast!!! It could take my family and I anywhere if we needed to.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 06:12 AM
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As mortals, we don't truly own anything anyway. We just have exclusive rights (more or less) to it until we get tired of it and get rid of it or when we die. It's not like the entire landscape is littered with untouched cars, homes, boats or other crap that belongs to someone that has died and failed to bequeath it in some fashion, it just passes on to the next user.

We're here a very short period of time, but we seem to leave behind a lot of crap (literally and figuratively) when we croak.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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I've gotta give Historical Mozart credit where it's due. This thread is like the one I contributed to at the end - the thread about Maritime Law and it's like the thread about becoming free.

The essential argument being used in these threads and this is the libertarian argument. I have some libertarian beliefs but I hold them in the context of understanding both the ideology of the state which does more or less own us AND recognising what's do-able. I'd love to walk into a courtroom after refusing to pay taxes - property, vehicle, income, you name it.

But as a minority of posters here are pointing out, it aint so simple to put the freeman ideals into practice because there are numerous laws that are applied to every situation you can think of where you try to break free of the govt's control, intrusion into every part of your life and yes despotism.

The problem is - what H Mozart and others have written does hold true in theory in many (not all) respects. But try and get around the govt's control of us, try and get around the apparatus of the 21st century state. It's just too damn hard in the cold hard legal reality of the legal system as it functions on a daily basis.

Just read what Devvy Kidd wrote about the respected professional who's doing time because she took on the IRS and was in theory correct. But she doesn't enforce the web of laws that entrap us. The Man does.

Re gold - definitely you don't own gold in the US. Recent history teaches us that when Roosevelt (who I don't demonise, respect because he did some good and some expansion of Fed Govt was definitely needed during the Depression - it was the hidden agenda of others that was the problem and the fact that things did not revert back after the Depression and WW2 crisis situations) felt it was the right timing, he had gold confiscated in the US.

Of course it wasn't just Roosevelt's idea. But the precedent has been set. Do all the people stocking up on gold really believe that when things really get bad the Govt (especially with the great conman himself Obama) will hesitate to confiscate gold, silver and platinum? Hell no!

Finally, to those who enthusiastically endorse the freeman movement, please give us concrete examples where freemen fought the law and won. This is the problem - many of us are with you theoretically because we know a lot of what you say is true. But you can't get around reality and the fact that there is some substance to the laws we fall under, much as we strongly dislike some of them.

Waiting....

[edit on 24-10-2009 by dontbelievehype]



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
If I am in possession of the car and I am in possession of the MCO/MSO then clearly I own said car.


I don't know which of the alternate dimensions you're living in; but it is plainly one of the topsy-turvy ones.

Sure, you can get an MCO/MSO from some dealerships.....most often from those that are selling non-streetlegal motorcycles or utility vehicles. Sometimes if the vehicle is for export, an MCO/MSO can be obtained.

The concept that I don't own my vehicles because the state has issued titles to them is ludicrous. Real world ludicrous. I just looked at one of my vehicle titles. I'm clearly identified on the front of the state issued title as "owner." Weird, the state itself--ostensibly the actual owner of my vehicles in bizarro world--has clearly indicated I'm the owner of this vehicle.

Should some nefarious person get possession of my titles.....they cannot get a clear title without my personal signature on the back of the title....the act of "transferring ownership", according to the language on the title itself. How could my legal signature transfer ownership if I'm not the de facto "owner?"

Sure, someone could attempt to forge my signature....they may even get away with it. However, if caught, they would be subject to criminal prosecution for the act of forging my signature on a legal document. How could someone be prosecuted for forging the signature of a person that does not own some piece of property? Clearly the state feels it important that the correct and legal signature be written in ink, twice, on the back of the title. The one true and correct name that can legally transfer ownership. That one true and correct name happens to be mine.

Regardless of the archaic concepts argued here...if I'm in possession of an asset that has the potential to be bartered, traded, sold, or otherwise transferred to another for some kind of gain.....I'm clearly the owner.

Some have mentioned that these oddly archaic principals being bandied about are influenced by some "freeman" movement.

I beg to disagree, I think it is intentional and subversive language that stems from an even deeper and less secular fundamentalism.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 09:49 AM
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If you have a personalized license plate can you just pay the yearly plate fee and have the car recorded(as opposed to registered) as yours?

2- Once a car is registered can you get it back from the state?



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by PenandSword
reply to post by DelMar
 



Maybe they have and we don't even know it. Maybe the country is already sold off to China (recall the red commie Chinese flag flying over the White House recently) and the PLA are being shipped in to make their claims. Don't think it can happen? Guess again.


Just look at the red star used by Macy's and all the red stars being used everywhere by businesses and they may not even know what it stands for!! They are just doing it because they want US to get used to seeing it!!!

Property Rights folks, that's what it comes down to, don't exercise your rights as a Sovereign Citizen and they will go away, not enough people making a stink. I have no drivers license, no registration tags and pay no income tax, hundreds of thousands of AMERICANS have chosen this path, it is difficult sometimes but there are ways.

IF, you ever get stopped, DEMAND to see the county Sheriff. HE is the only LEGAL law enforcement officer, ALL police and state patrols are merely corporate tax collectors, they have NO JURISDICTION over you. DO NOT enter into a conversation with them, just ask "How may I help you officer", then demand to see the county Sheriff. Entering into a conversation is entering into the State contract, verbal agreement that you are guilty.

Ask the Sheriff when he gets there about his oath to protect your natural born inalienable rights and that you are a Natural Born Citizen, not a strawman or person.




"Personal liberty largely consists of the Right of locomotion -- to go where and when one pleases -- only so far restrained as the Rights of others may make it necessary for the welfare of all other citizens. The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horsedrawn carriage, wagon, or automobile, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct." [emphasis added] II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329, p.1135.


We all must be versed in the actual LAW or we are done.

www.sheriffmack.com...



Get Sheriff Ricjard Macks books, they are great, he is working on a property rights book right now. I have personally spoken with him and he is a great guy. We are trying to wake up all Sheriffs and Cops to the rights of the people. In which ALL political power is inherent.

He has many YouTube videos also. Great to watch and inspirational. Maybe we shoudl ALL march on our State capitals. It is up to us to start this Sovereign thing, WE must become Sovereign, or claim our Sovereignty before our States can or will from the Federal Grip......errr Government.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by MrPenny
The concept that I don't own my vehicles because the state has issued titles to them is ludicrous. Real world ludicrous. I just looked at one of my vehicle titles. I'm clearly identified on the front of the state issued title as "owner."



Ok, MrPenny,


Go ahead and put your convictions and theories to a road test, if you are so sure about what you have stated in your post.

Go ahead as the "owner" of said vehicle[sic], go ahead and stop paying your yearly registration fees, go ahead. See what happens. If you did that, you'd be in for a very rude surprise, I can guarantee that.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by Historical-Mozart]



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by MrPenny
 


How funny that some people always choose to start out trying to cast dispersions on the messenger and not the message.

I honestly feel sorry for such people. They seem to think what's wrong with the world is actually the fault of the people who point out what's wrong with the world.

I think some how in their minds that they feel if they can just get someone and everyone else to think that there is something wrong with the messenger then the message will get better and the world will be fine.

Doesn't seem to be working out too well for the world this strategy though.

I have ordered tens upon tens of thousands of vehicles as an Inventory Manager for half a dozen Franchise Dealerships and was responsible for not only what was built into the vehicle it's color and how it was equiped but dealing with the vehicle and it's paperwork upon arrival.

I think having handled in my own hands well over 50,000 MCOs/MSOs I know in fact what they are.

They are basically a Security Type Bearer Bond and Instrument of Ownership of a serialized for identification purposes piece of property.

There are State and Federal laws that govern their use and transference.
The manufacturers of origin also have policies regarding them they bind their franchise dealers with by contract.

A few important things to note. It is such a powerful instrument of ownership that not even photo copies are distributed except in cases of extreme need to a select few who fall within procedural and legal guidelines most notably the banks and other licensed New Car Dealers authorized by the manufacture to posses and trade their vehicles and their MCO's.

When someone is taking out a loan on the vehicle the MSO goes to the bank.

When another dealer is trading or buying the vehicle the MSO goes to the other dealer along with the car.

Dealerships profit by the way on processing title work. Most dealers add a document fee of $495.00 to $895.00 to the Buyer's Order to perform the required State and Federal paper work needed to title and register and license a vehicle.

They would loose that money if the Dealership to not process the MCO/MSO.

Now here is the telling thing the only other retail as opposed to wholesale parties that can legally have a MSO transferred straight to them as in handed over it's yours...

Fleet customers and large corporations who paid the factory directly and not the dealership and had the vehicle drop shipped to the dealership because dealerships function as a distribution network of new vehicles.

The Dealership does no paperwork for such customers and surrenders the vehicle and MSO to their representatives.

Now even more telling the other entity that gets MSO's bypassing the State in the same manner is the Government Accounting Office.

The GAO orders all the vehicles for the Federal Government directly from the manufactures but once again they are drop shipped to the dealerships as points of distribution.

The MSO which always accompanies the vehicle physically in the glove compartment tucked inside the owners manual during transit from the factory is once again always directly surrendered and the custody of it as well as the vehicle is awarded to the Government employee coming to retrieve the vehicle.

So the question for you my Wikipedia loving friend who thinks a user compiled online encyclopedia is a more accurate rendering than a highly seasoned professionals inside knowledge and experience is this...

Why can't you have the MSO but corporations who purchase a minimum of 15 new cars from the manufacture each year can?

Why can't you have the MSO but the Federal Government can when ever it buys a vehicle?

Could it be because in those two cases it is the corporations and the government who are allowed to have free and unfettered unincumbered ownership of something and the source document that denotes it?

I think so, and I think that probably unbeknownst to you in what is likely an upside down world you live in, where you are at the bottom and not the top being oppressed by taxing and manipulative government agencies and corporations and would prefer every one else to be there in that taxing and enslaving 'but wikipedia said' world is the underlying reality that you either lack the courage and fortitude or the presence of mind to admit.

You are an economic slave who is property of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CORPORATION who performs as an Asset by not just laboring to perform services and provide goods to it, but nearly 50% of your income in State and Federal and Local Taxes just to use a road that for far less money you could build yourself.

The reality is my world isn't framed by Wikipedia and URLS and what I assume.

It's framed by what I know and experience.

Thanks for posting.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Historical-Mozart
go ahead and stop paying your yearly registration fees, go ahead.


That has zip to do with the vehicle's ownership. That is about the levied fees that grant the use of a motor vehicle on state and municipally maintained roadways.

I can take the registration off a vehicle....toss the registration papers in the fireplace.....and drive the vehicle around on the farm as long as I want. In fact, if I owned a large enough tract of private land.....I could go rip-snorting around all I want.

I can allow the registration to lapse, park the vehicle in the garage, then....in an astonishing turn of events.....sign the title over to someone else and, incredibly, transfer ownership!!!



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