All this tax talk got me thinking. Is there a way to see if our lovely politicians, be it state or federal, pay property taxes and income taxes. Seems to me a lot of the dodge it, or pay a lot less than what they owe in comparison to the peasantry.

Originally posted by DelMar
Interesting thread, I've learned something new today, but I'm wondering how the concept of "you don't own anything" plays out in the real world.

For instance, say I live in California, a state in obvious financial trouble. Why doesn't some state official delegate people, such as police, to go door to door to collect plasma tv's, art, furniture etc to be sold at auction to raise money for the state's budget? If the state does indeed own everything, this shouldn't be an issue, right?

Or, why does the state not set up road blocks and just sieze people's cars to sell? They own it anyway, right?

That's the part I'm not getting. If the "state" does own everything, why the lack of state siezure of property, cars, children etc? Yes those things do occur, usually during some sort of legal proceeding, but why is it not rampant?

Del

when you "register" or gain a title from the state, that is when you transfer ownership. By definition "register" is a transfer of ownership, blacks law dictionary, try v5.

If you register anything you are transferring title. That is why registered firearms can be taken by the state, city, govn. etc... It is not a violation because you voluntarily gave up your ownership right.

in addition, if this knowledge came into the eyes of the public, what do you think would happen? Regardless, state seizes items you listed above daily. We just don't hear about it.

If the state tried to seize your children, which is quite common, what would you do? Could you stop them? They are "your" children right? another misnomer...

go yell at your child in public, see how quickly "your" child is relocated by the state, when it gets reported as abuse...



[edit on 23-10-2009 by injunfeller]

Originally posted by Aeons
I've got one better for you. And this applies to all common law system, and most First World legal systems.

Did you know that your parents are not your parents, and that your children's parents are not you?

You are merely a parent in location, acting on behalf of the state who is the real parent. Real law. Europe. UK. Canada. New Zealand. Australia. USA. Probably others, but I have never bothered to see how many more countries have this legal concept of society as the real parent and biological parents merely representatives on the ground.

I can go one better - that whole Schiavo incident was not about life. I was about having the state set precedent to step in between two spouses. Essentially setting up a precedent to make marriage mean the same thing. That the state can nullify your spousal privilege and assert itself as your real spouse. That when you marry, you marry the state and that your partner becomes a representative of the state. If Gov. Bush had succeed with that with all of the right-wing cheering him on, he would have changed the entire meaning of marriage far more than any gay marriage would have.

I can go even one better than that (I already knew about the car registration, and marriage registration by the way - when you 'apply' to register something - it means that you surrender ownership.)

So - one BETTER.

Your birth certificate is a registration - you do not OWN your person - that belongs to the state. You merely represent it for legal purposes.

In other words, you name is a corporations trading name. However - a corporation needs a flesh and blood representative - thats where you come in.

If you deny that you are the flesh and blood representative of that corporation - then there is no legal way ANYTHING can be prosecuted against you.

That is because there is no criminal law - there is no such thing in the western world - all law is commercial law. It must be prosecuted against a corporation only.

If you deny you are a corporation - but rather that you are a flesh and blood person - and that you do NOT represent the legal fiction which comprises your name - then you will be free to go.

For each country there is a slightly different process - you will need to look up the details to challenge on this basis - because you can easily get screwed. But if you know exactly what to say - they cannot prosecute you for anything.

It seems that people want to own "things". Rockifeller said never own anything just control it! In Canada I do not want to own anything. Iam in the know that the goverment owns everything by our name. They own the name. I use that knowledge to defuse debt via tax forms and live happly. The same is true for you in the USA . You can not take anything with you when you pass on, so why the hang up to own things? Register and act like a corporation and use your excemptions. It is so easy to do so. The smart super rich do not own things , they control them by corporate trusts. Its just business. Secret act like a corporation, live like a freeman!

reply to PenandSword

While I'm sure the U.S. is in great debt to the Chinese, I don't see how that applies to the state owning everything and the individual owning nothing. I guess you could stretch it and say that "U.S. citizens own nothing, government owns everything, government is in debt to the Chinese and others, so therefore the Chinese can legally come to claim what is theirs." Right?

reply to injunfeller

You said that the states seize items that I listed, such as property, cars and children, daily and we just don't hear about it. Are you talking about legal issues, or just the state swooping in and taking things from people without cause. If it's the second, I think we would be hearing about it.

You're also being a bit dramatic, I seriously doubt anyone has had their child "relocated" for just yelling at them.

reply to Historical-Mozart

So if there would be this tremendous backlash, then what you're essentially talking about is paper law or legal theory? If you can't cite numerous cases of the government taking things away from it's citizens unlawfully then the topic is interesting but doesn't really apply to every day life, or am I missing something?

Also, the news you linked sounds more like corrupt cops than government sanctioned seizures of property.


Del

Originally posted by DelMar

reply to injunfeller

You said that the states seize items that I listed, such as property, cars and children, daily and we just don't hear about it. Are you talking about legal issues, or just the state swooping in and taking things from people without cause. If it's the second, I think we would be hearing about it.

You're also being a bit dramatic, I seriously doubt anyone has had their child "relocated" for just yelling at them.
Del

you don't hear about them because they have become the norm. People do not question it much when their sovereignty is sold down the river. Hardly, anyone even knows what that words means.

If you are also referring to "cause" then that is open to interpretation. You may feel that your reaction to a situation was a just "cause", and someone else may think differently and think you had an unjust "cause". The point is, that it is arbitrary and a great deal of the "paperwork" is just drama for the masses to eat up. If someone in state wants to wreck your family they will. If they want to seize your property they will. If they want to imprison you they will.

Dramatic? I just point out history without passion or prejudice, interpret it how you want. Telling people to stick up for themselves has been like pulling teeth for a few decades now.

This couldn't happen in america... lol

Originally posted by Historical-Mozart
.............
So I'm just letting you know WHY you have to pay the state the registration fees, taxes, etc and the fact that you do NOT own your vehicle![sic]


The current system of "government" in the US sucks and the vast majority of the people who live in America just don't know how much of slaves that they are to the current system.

THis is not just "the current system", this has happened since 1913, when Woodrow Wilson gave power to the Feds, and in general to the elites who own banks.

Cars, trucks, etc USED to be affordable, and you didn't have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for such vehicles.

Vehicles do not really cost the amount that we are charged, the same with houses. But the bankers realized they had a gold mine and they could squeeze us slowly with these higher prices, plus the tax, which again Woodrow Wilson instituted the income tax. Yes, there was an income tax before also, and it used to be more expensive.

But still, it was thanks to Woodrow Wilson that the Feds, and the elites of banks were able to put ALL Americans into this debt system which is squeezing us of as much money as they can, and they made it legal.

I know every time that i have to pay for new plates, or for renewal, plus the tax for OWNING a truck, or vehicle that we are being robbed legally by the state.

The same thing is with the taxes on land that you can own....

The same thing for owning weapons, and having concealed permits...

The STATE SHOULDN'T be taxing us for owning ANYTHING... it makes it a PRIVILEDGE to own things which soon enough only the RICH will be able to afford, and that's not how the forefathers of this nation funded the Republic to be.

Now things are even worse, with the consolidation of power which is being done by the Obama administration, which Americans should realize is the same thing that Chavez did to Venezuela, is nothing more than the dream come true of the Socialist elites to reach their goal of a One World Socialist dictatorship, which we are moving into.

Americans should realize this, but many Americans in the left don't want to admit their Socialist dream system does not work, and just put us completely in control of the state, which is owned by the Feds, and the Socialist elites who also own all mayor corporations.

Many, if not most Americans in the right think there is nothing they can do about it, and yes there are many that don't care much as long as they can go home, or go to the bar, watch football, and have some beer.

Many Americans in general drown themselves consecutively in alcohol trying to escape, but this does nothing.

If a mayority of Americans demanded for the Republic to be returned to how the forefathers funded the nation to be, we wouldn't be seeing these problems.

But the Socialist elites are fighting against us on many fronts, indoctrinating Americans, which has occurred for decades, making Americans, and other people around the world think that the Socialist goal is good for the people, when all it does is consolidate all power to a few people, and that is NEVER good for the people. Even when the state claims it represents the people, it never does.

[edited for errors and to add comments]



[edit on 24-10-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

If you have no loan, you own the car.

Regardless of what the DMV says.....

A quick visit to any court would rule in your favor.

Ironically I'm driving my car unregistered atm lol. No ones bothered me for expired out of state tags for 10 months now.

Originally posted by Amagnon
Well - while living and breathing - I am damned interested in freedom - for myself, and for those who come after.

A mans sovereignty and wealth reside in his mind and nowhere else, a man who hands over his thinking to someone else will receive only poverty and slavery in return.

Think for yourself - don't be told how to think - don't believe what your told.

Hear! Hear! Agreed.


I'm extremely disappointed at the sheer numbers of people who don't think at all for themselves. I can only imagine the reaction of our Founding Fathers if they were to see their progeny now. They'd probably go right back to their graves immediately.