You do NOT own your car/truck/SUV!

All this tax talk got me thinking. Is there a way to see if our lovely politicians, be it state or federal, pay property taxes and income taxes. Seems to me a lot of the dodge it, or pay a lot less than what they owe in comparison to the peasantry.

reply to post by DelMar



Maybe they have and we don't even know it. Maybe the country is already sold off to China (recall the red commie Chinese flag flying over the White House recently) and the PLA are being shipped in to make their claims. Don't think it can happen? Guess again.

Originally posted by DelMar
Interesting thread, I've learned something new today, but I'm wondering how the concept of "you don't own anything" plays out in the real world.

For instance, say I live in California, a state in obvious financial trouble. Why doesn't some state official delegate people, such as police, to go door to door to collect plasma tv's, art, furniture etc to be sold at auction to raise money for the state's budget? If the state does indeed own everything, this shouldn't be an issue, right?

Or, why does the state not set up road blocks and just sieze people's cars to sell? They own it anyway, right?

That's the part I'm not getting. If the "state" does own everything, why the lack of state siezure of property, cars, children etc? Yes those things do occur, usually during some sort of legal proceeding, but why is it not rampant?

Del

when you "register" or gain a title from the state, that is when you transfer ownership. By definition "register" is a transfer of ownership, blacks law dictionary, try v5.

If you register anything you are transferring title. That is why registered firearms can be taken by the state, city, govn. etc... It is not a violation because you voluntarily gave up your ownership right.

in addition, if this knowledge came into the eyes of the public, what do you think would happen? Regardless, state seizes items you listed above daily. We just don't hear about it.

If the state tried to seize your children, which is quite common, what would you do? Could you stop them? They are "your" children right? another misnomer...

go yell at your child in public, see how quickly "your" child is relocated by the state, when it gets reported as abuse...



[edit on 23-10-2009 by injunfeller]

reply to post by Historical-Mozart


You are free to own a car tax free and off the grid as long as you agree to not drive it on public roads built with tax money.

-rrr

Originally posted by DelMar
Or, why does the state not set up road blocks and just sieze people's cars to sell? They own it anyway, right?

Why won't the government seize people's cars outright? In one word: politics.


Imagine the political bruhaha that would ensue if this was done on a nation-wide basis. But there have been a number of reports of cops pulling people over to extort cash and/or their cars from them, to wit...

ttnae.com...

...but this news above is an old one and I'm not aware of any new cases of any major cases of cops -- the government -- stealing cars from people.


The backlash would be too great if they tried a stupid stunt like that.

Originally posted by Aeons
I've got one better for you. And this applies to all common law system, and most First World legal systems.

Did you know that your parents are not your parents, and that your children's parents are not you?

You are merely a parent in location, acting on behalf of the state who is the real parent. Real law. Europe. UK. Canada. New Zealand. Australia. USA. Probably others, but I have never bothered to see how many more countries have this legal concept of society as the real parent and biological parents merely representatives on the ground.

I can go one better - that whole Schiavo incident was not about life. I was about having the state set precedent to step in between two spouses. Essentially setting up a precedent to make marriage mean the same thing. That the state can nullify your spousal privilege and assert itself as your real spouse. That when you marry, you marry the state and that your partner becomes a representative of the state. If Gov. Bush had succeed with that with all of the right-wing cheering him on, he would have changed the entire meaning of marriage far more than any gay marriage would have.

I can go even one better than that (I already knew about the car registration, and marriage registration by the way - when you 'apply' to register something - it means that you surrender ownership.)

So - one BETTER.

Your birth certificate is a registration - you do not OWN your person - that belongs to the state. You merely represent it for legal purposes.

In other words, you name is a corporations trading name. However - a corporation needs a flesh and blood representative - thats where you come in.

If you deny that you are the flesh and blood representative of that corporation - then there is no legal way ANYTHING can be prosecuted against you.

That is because there is no criminal law - there is no such thing in the western world - all law is commercial law. It must be prosecuted against a corporation only.

If you deny you are a corporation - but rather that you are a flesh and blood person - and that you do NOT represent the legal fiction which comprises your name - then you will be free to go.

For each country there is a slightly different process - you will need to look up the details to challenge on this basis - because you can easily get screwed. But if you know exactly what to say - they cannot prosecute you for anything.

Originally posted by Amagnon
If you deny that you are the flesh and blood representative of that corporation - then there is no legal way ANYTHING can be prosecuted against you.

Amagnon,


Everything that you said in your post is true, so good job.


Regarding the point that you made above, I actually tried that strategy in court, turning in a paper that was called Affidavit of Denial of Corporate Existence and I turned it into the court prior to my appearance of a case.


Before I proceed any further, I want to share this excellent url that is very well organized and well-supported with a lot of supporting information, so it may be quite useful to many of you:

sedm.org...


So, after I turned in my Affidavit of Denial of Corporate Existence (this was back in the mid-90's, I went to court and I nervously waited for "my" STRAWMAN name to be called. My heart was beating SO fast, as if I was running a marathon. I had two of my friends there as witnesses.


So they called "my" STRAWMAN name, I got up and did NOT walk past the bar that was in the courtroom -- never, ever go past that bar -- and remained in the peanut gallery.


I immediately said out loud to the judge "Are you controverting my Affidavit of Denial of Corporate Existence?"


The judge said "Look, I have your paper here that you turned in and I respect and admire your intelligence, but you are mistaken about the law."


I repeated what I said "Are you controverting my Affidavit of Denial of Corporation Existence?"


The judge said, "Look, Mr. **********, you are mistaken about the law, blah, blah, blah.


I said again, "Are you controverting my Affidavit of Denial of Corporation Existence?"


The judge said some more things and I cannot recall what he said.


Then I said, "I have yet to hear of any controverting of my Affidavit of Denial of Corporate Existence by anyone in this tribunal, so, with my two witnesses at hand, I declare this case closed and I declare that I am free to leave." I was shaking so hard when I said that.


Then I turned and walked out of the courtroom, fully expecting the bailiffs to grab me from behind and totally hoping that my pants would not show a big brown vertical streak, but I was able to walk out of the courtroom with the judge raising his voice a bit, but I did not understand what he was saying (I'm nearly deaf, but I can hear some with one hearing aid), so I just kept on walking until I got out of the courthouse and my friends ran up to me, totally excited and they just could not believe what had happened.


They said that the people in there in the peanut were stunned and silent and the judge was beet-face red with anger and he quickly moved on to the next case, knowing that there was not anything that he could do and that the bailiff kept looking at the judge, fully expecting an order to arrest me, but the judge gave no such order. The court clerk sat there, totally perplexed as well. Hahaha!


So this strategy does work. You just gotta have brass balls and a good pair of adult diapers.

Originally posted by TimeTo23
This whole conversation has been very entertaining. If you do not drive your car in many states you do not have to register it. If you do not have to register it, you do not have to pay a tax. If you are not late on tax and do not have to register they will not impound it. Then you can leave the state without paying any fees on the vehicle to the state you have it not operating in. If you file for a non operable registration in California then move to Oregon, you do not need to file a registration in Oregon. You do not need to pay California more fees because you are not a resident. Your vehicle is free from all fees. So what state owns it then? Of course you would need to change the title over but not register.

To clarify the OP is about ownership not driving. However if you want to drive it then move to Moses Point Alaska. Then you will again have to transfer your title but you will not have to register it. So if you do not have to register the car, then you die and it is passed on to whomever is in your will they will not have to pay a state tax. There is no inheritance tax in Alaska. You will not have to pay it in California where you came from or Oregon where you moved too. So none of the states obviously own it or the original state could claim it.

Like I said I think this is very entertaining.

I just wasted 20 minutes of my life and I will never get it back.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by TimeTo23]

The instant you file a non operable registration in California, the vehicles tires cannot touch any .gov maintained roadway for that registration year. You cant even drive or "tow" it to DMV legally.

The Calif DMV states (here) "Non-operational means that the vehicle will not be driven, towed, stored, or parked on public roads or highways for the entire registration year".. to get around this, a non-op vehicle can be "transported" on a flatbed / car carrier as long as no unregistered rubber meets the road.

Statutory Authority can be looked up Here

Revenue and Taxation Code §§10855 and 10856. Vehicle Code §§4452, 4604, 4604.5, 5105, 5106, 9269, 9553, 9554, 9706, 9710, 9862, 38121, and 38246.

I applaud anyone who screws the man, but... the reality is any cop with minutes worth of traffic training or experience can find a dozen reasons to tow your unregistered vehicle off the road... even if you eventually swim up the systems stream, win, and get your unregistered car back.. it won't stop the same cop from towing your car again, and again... as long as s/hes within the 4 corners of dept policy and SOP.

LAPD traffic officers (who wear patches & have push bumper units) make millions of dollars for the city of LA using the vehicle codes feces to basically steal cars out from under people. These cars are whisked away by waiting "OPG tow", city employee goons from the "Official Police Garage". Outrageous fees are either extorted from you, or the city of LA auctions your beloved short in just 30 days to used car vultures... under prison rules, no reach around.

reply to post by ReelView

This is true of a house, land, etc..

On a Deed there is no talk of personal ownership. It only refers to a tenent. As if, but see this is why I have never bought into the shister system that is best described to be the most rigid. A 30 year Mortgage?
Who in their right mind would go for that crap. Obviously many of us.
I have often stopped to think how insane it really is that a person signs
to that monthly payment.

Like people are robots and they never get sick or have any problems.
The system is inhumane. Oh your wife left you? @#$% you, pay me.
Had an operation layed up for awhile? @#$% you, pay me.
Oh your kid got hit by a car? @#$% you, pay me.
Your house burned down, the company you work for went under and America won't win in Afganistan? !@#$ you, pay me.

I try to keep the red tape out of mind. Possession Is 9/10s of the law
including MY WEAPONS.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by randyvs]

It seems that people want to own "things". Rockifeller said never own anything just control it! In Canada I do not want to own anything. Iam in the know that the goverment owns everything by our name. They own the name. I use that knowledge to defuse debt via tax forms and live happly. The same is true for you in the USA . You can not take anything with you when you pass on, so why the hang up to own things? Register and act like a corporation and use your excemptions. It is so easy to do so. The smart super rich do not own things , they control them by corporate trusts. Its just business. Secret act like a corporation, live like a freeman!

reply to PenandSword

While I'm sure the U.S. is in great debt to the Chinese, I don't see how that applies to the state owning everything and the individual owning nothing. I guess you could stretch it and say that "U.S. citizens own nothing, government owns everything, government is in debt to the Chinese and others, so therefore the Chinese can legally come to claim what is theirs." Right?

reply to injunfeller

You said that the states seize items that I listed, such as property, cars and children, daily and we just don't hear about it. Are you talking about legal issues, or just the state swooping in and taking things from people without cause. If it's the second, I think we would be hearing about it.

You're also being a bit dramatic, I seriously doubt anyone has had their child "relocated" for just yelling at them.

reply to Historical-Mozart

So if there would be this tremendous backlash, then what you're essentially talking about is paper law or legal theory? If you can't cite numerous cases of the government taking things away from it's citizens unlawfully then the topic is interesting but doesn't really apply to every day life, or am I missing something?

Also, the news you linked sounds more like corrupt cops than government sanctioned seizures of property.


Del

reply to post by apsleyflyer

Secret act like a corporation, live like a freeman!

This sounds like something that has always been there at the back of my
mind and I just never grabed hold of it firmly. I bet your right about this in a big way.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by thaknobodi

I agree! Seems like the Native Americans were way ahead of us !They couldnt comprehend ownership of the land.Seems they had (and still do) a more sensible view of how things are or should be.Its been said "the end is in the beginning!" I suppose thats the punishment we recieve for all the wrongs done to them by a "civilized society" Time to pay the piper it seems!!LOL

Originally posted by DelMar

reply to injunfeller

You said that the states seize items that I listed, such as property, cars and children, daily and we just don't hear about it. Are you talking about legal issues, or just the state swooping in and taking things from people without cause. If it's the second, I think we would be hearing about it.

You're also being a bit dramatic, I seriously doubt anyone has had their child "relocated" for just yelling at them.
Del

you don't hear about them because they have become the norm. People do not question it much when their sovereignty is sold down the river. Hardly, anyone even knows what that words means.

If you are also referring to "cause" then that is open to interpretation. You may feel that your reaction to a situation was a just "cause", and someone else may think differently and think you had an unjust "cause". The point is, that it is arbitrary and a great deal of the "paperwork" is just drama for the masses to eat up. If someone in state wants to wreck your family they will. If they want to seize your property they will. If they want to imprison you they will.

Dramatic? I just point out history without passion or prejudice, interpret it how you want. Telling people to stick up for themselves has been like pulling teeth for a few decades now.

This couldn't happen in america... lol

Originally posted by Historical-Mozart
.............
So I'm just letting you know WHY you have to pay the state the registration fees, taxes, etc and the fact that you do NOT own your vehicle![sic]


The current system of "government" in the US sucks and the vast majority of the people who live in America just don't know how much of slaves that they are to the current system.

THis is not just "the current system", this has happened since 1913, when Woodrow Wilson gave power to the Feds, and in general to the elites who own banks.

Cars, trucks, etc USED to be affordable, and you didn't have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for such vehicles.

Vehicles do not really cost the amount that we are charged, the same with houses. But the bankers realized they had a gold mine and they could squeeze us slowly with these higher prices, plus the tax, which again Woodrow Wilson instituted the income tax. Yes, there was an income tax before also, and it used to be more expensive.

But still, it was thanks to Woodrow Wilson that the Feds, and the elites of banks were able to put ALL Americans into this debt system which is squeezing us of as much money as they can, and they made it legal.

I know every time that i have to pay for new plates, or for renewal, plus the tax for OWNING a truck, or vehicle that we are being robbed legally by the state.

The same thing is with the taxes on land that you can own....

The same thing for owning weapons, and having concealed permits...

The STATE SHOULDN'T be taxing us for owning ANYTHING... it makes it a PRIVILEDGE to own things which soon enough only the RICH will be able to afford, and that's not how the forefathers of this nation funded the Republic to be.

Now things are even worse, with the consolidation of power which is being done by the Obama administration, which Americans should realize is the same thing that Chavez did to Venezuela, is nothing more than the dream come true of the Socialist elites to reach their goal of a One World Socialist dictatorship, which we are moving into.

Americans should realize this, but many Americans in the left don't want to admit their Socialist dream system does not work, and just put us completely in control of the state, which is owned by the Feds, and the Socialist elites who also own all mayor corporations.

Many, if not most Americans in the right think there is nothing they can do about it, and yes there are many that don't care much as long as they can go home, or go to the bar, watch football, and have some beer.

Many Americans in general drown themselves consecutively in alcohol trying to escape, but this does nothing.

If a mayority of Americans demanded for the Republic to be returned to how the forefathers funded the nation to be, we wouldn't be seeing these problems.

But the Socialist elites are fighting against us on many fronts, indoctrinating Americans, which has occurred for decades, making Americans, and other people around the world think that the Socialist goal is good for the people, when all it does is consolidate all power to a few people, and that is NEVER good for the people. Even when the state claims it represents the people, it never does.

[edited for errors and to add comments]



[edit on 24-10-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

If you have no loan, you own the car.

Regardless of what the DMV says.....

A quick visit to any court would rule in your favor.

Ironically I'm driving my car unregistered atm lol. No ones bothered me for expired out of state tags for 10 months now.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse



A star for you, buddy. I agree with your entire post.


And what I mean by "current system" is current from 1913.


Actually, the "current" legal-fiction corporation "government" -- which is a de facto "government" and NOT a de jure government, for those of you who do not know the difference -- had it's start in 1861, when Abraham Lincoln started the very first standing army of 75,000 men and, at that time, the US "government" was a provisional one under military rule.


Then, later, it became formally organized as a corporation in 1871 and it's been a biatch to deal with ever since. So that means that the good 'ole Republic has been effective dead ever since 1861. Sucks, man.

reply to post by Historical-Mozart


You really in all reality CAN'T own anything. Death owns everything....good luck trying to pry it from his hands...."over deaths dead body":

Be happy you're alive....for now. Death is coming....for everyone, so "own" your life while you have it.

Peace

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by Historical-Mozart

 

You really in all reality CAN'T own anything. Death owns everything....good luck trying to pry it from his hands...."over deaths dead body":

Be happy you're alive....for now. Death is coming....for everyone, so "own" your life while you have it.

Peace

Right - its the old "Your all going to die anyway, so why worry about freedom?" argument/false paradigm.

Well - while living and breathing - I am damned interested in freedom - for myself, and for those who come after.

When I am dead - then sure - my worries will be over, and possessions redundant - but until that time - whatever my hand produces, whatever my mind creates is my sovereign property.

A mans sovereignty and wealth reside in his mind and nowhere else, a man who hands over his thinking to someone else will receive only poverty and slavery in return.

Think for yourself - don't be told how to think - don't believe what your told.

Originally posted by Amagnon
Well - while living and breathing - I am damned interested in freedom - for myself, and for those who come after.

A mans sovereignty and wealth reside in his mind and nowhere else, a man who hands over his thinking to someone else will receive only poverty and slavery in return.

Think for yourself - don't be told how to think - don't believe what your told.

Hear! Hear! Agreed.


I'm extremely disappointed at the sheer numbers of people who don't think at all for themselves. I can only imagine the reaction of our Founding Fathers if they were to see their progeny now. They'd probably go right back to their graves immediately.