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Nick Griffin (BNP Leader) to appear on Question Time Tonight amid Protesters Outside Studio

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posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Muckster
 


Do you not agree that people hold perfectly legitimate concerns surrounding immigration, race, religion and culture that must be addressed?

While I agree with you that the BNP are a racist party you do seem dismissive of any concern that is associated with them.

If you want to get rid of the likes of the BNP then you must confront issues such as people not liking outside cultures taking root in their community or mass immigration. To sweep these under the rug with shouting and insults like on last nights QT will only strengthen the BNP and groups like them.




posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 12:46 PM
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Here are two sites depicting the situation in Neukölln, a suburb of Germany´s
capital :

english.people.com.cn...

kultur-neukoelln.de...

With lots of hopes the German government and all the religious groups´
representatives started out on an agenda of finding a "modus vivendi"
between host and migrants.

A few days ago I learned through the media of its failure.

Germans, like the British, have a party (NPD = BNP) that they
could turn to, if the government is not taking a harder stance on immigration.

I would hate to see history repeat itself.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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I consider calling for a march for Sharia as being unconstitutional, as elements
of the Sharia contain statutory offenses (torture etc.) under a democratic
constitution.

So, you Brits, get an order to stop that march for incitement of the masses.

And you Americans move closer so we Europeans have some room for an
orderly retreat in the US.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


Yep, I totally agree that issue of immigration cannot be swept under the carpet (something our government has been trying hard to do)

If someone has recently come to this country, who shouldn’t be here and is therefore an illegal immigrant, then obviously send them back. The current system for this is clearly not working and therefore needs to be revamped...

However while I am all for tightening up the boarders I cannot excuse the idea of sending British citizens, who have worked hard, paid their taxes, and contributed to society, back to a land that is foreign to them because they happen to be a darker skin tone and because it is the land that their grandparents came from.

I cannot stand it when people try to justify their protest vote by making excuses for the BNP. Trying to argue that the BNP are not racist, when they clearly are, is not just deceitful... it’s stupid!!

If people want to make a protest vote why can’t they vote for a part like The English Democrats???

I'll tell you why... because they are either too stupid or too lazy to find out about them (probably a bit of both)



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by Mike_A
 

I cannot excuse the idea of sending British citizens, who have worked hard, paid their taxes, and contributed to society, back to a land that is foreign to them because they happen to be a darker skin tone and because it is the land that their grandparents came from.



Based upon what was said on question time last night, I don't believe that this view is supported by the BNP either -
can you give a link as to why you believe this is the BNP policy



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by suziwong
 


Sure,

The BNP are the old National Front revamped and made more acceptable... however they still hold the fascist and Nazi white supremacists ideology at the core...

Nick Griffin in the past has made many references to sending ALL ethnic minority’s back to their land of origin.

Recently he has changed the tone of this racist rhetoric... toned it down...

However...On Nick Griffins trip to America he stated that he has toned down the BNP to make it more palatable to the mainstream... and that once in power they can then get on with the "real issues"

This is all documented video footage that can be found on youtube...

Do you think Hitler got in power by telling the German people... "Hey, vote for me and i will Gas 6 million Jews"

And no... I’m not comparing Griffin to Hitler... just pointing out how extremists can often hide their real intent until they are in power... and then it’s often too late

With regards to a link... please see my earlier post where i included links to youtube and a link to another thread i started regarding the BNPs propaganda tactics.

Also...

en.wikipedia.org...

I know its Wiki... but if you go to the bottom you will find tons of links to articles regarding the BNP.

Its also worth looking up the National Front so you can get a picture of the BNP's roots.

Thanks


[edit on 23-10-2009 by Muckster]



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Muckster
racist noun

someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly.




That would include new labour then? as not so long ago Harriet Harman was planning on introducing a new law that would allow employers to discriminate against white working men in favour of immigrants and women when looking for employee's even when the white working male was more qualified.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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Came across this little gem.

"The bottom line is if you walk into McDonalds you would expect to see McDonald staff flipping burgers. If you walked in a few weeks later and the sign outside was still McDonald's but had staff dressed in KFC outfits selling buckets o chicken then it would no longer be a McDonald's. It would be something altogether different."



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by solidshot
 

Yes it would... what’s the point?

I know that there are many issue that are unfair to white people... i have been at the receiving end of discrimination myself (for being white) But that is not what i am talking about... if you want to talk about reverse racism and New Labour then start another thread...



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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I must admit, I was shocked by that lying, squirming toad on Question Time. Nothing he said made sense, and when a straight question was put to him, he avoided it like the plague.
Jack Straw really showed this government up for what they are.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Nef, I know we agree on most things, but you have to admit that the BNP have a point.


I think you have it slightly wrong Stu.

The electorate have a point. The point is that the levels of immigration aren't sustainable. I do agree with that point. We're not a big island, and 65 million people is just about pushing it.

The BNP's part is to jump on the bandwagon - and attempt to make the issue about race - when it isn't, because the majority of immigrants coming into this country in recent years have been EU migrants from countries like Poland, Lithuania, Estonia etc who are predominently caucasian.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Muckster
 



However while I am all for tightening up the boarders I cannot excuse the idea of sending British citizens, who have worked hard, paid their taxes, and contributed to society, back to a land that is foreign to them because they happen to be a darker skin tone and because it is the land that their grandparents came from.


That's not the root issue that's a solution to it; it's the solution that the BNP has come up with. When and where the BNP proposes this then it should be shot down using sound, logical arguments.

However the problem is where people are dismissive of the root concern that leads some to subscribe these solutions. That concern is perfectly legitimate but if you just tell people to shut up when they bring it up (even if it's the BNP that bring it up) then you force people to the BNP because they're the only one offering any sort of solution.

The point being that if you don't engage the BNP and its supporters, acknowledge what they say (that doesn't mean agree) then you will never be rid of them and they will continue to grow.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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Here in the UK, the most popular TV shows are Big Brother , The X factor and other such trash. As someone like Simon Cowell would point out, the public gets bored with the same format all the time , so you have to change it.
Now we've had 15 years of ethnic ass kissing, so maybe the public would vote for some ethnic ass kicking.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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The English Democrats i feel have my vote. I know by voting BNP I'm going to be going against my roots. After all, it WAS the BNP who smeared # on my irish grandmothers door when she migrated over here to work. Just like everyone else i am desperate for a solution to the immigration and reverse racism.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by Muckster
Regardless of how many they have killed... the issue is if they are racist... you stated that they are not!!!

So you're saying that potential sentiments of racism are worse than mass-murder?


Originally posted by Muckster
Do you know the definition of racism or what it is to be racist???



racist noun

someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly.

Exactly. Now, can you tell me exactly what in BNP policy fits this definition of racism. The BNP are an ethno-nationalist party, NOT a racist party. You may well despise ethno-nationalism, in fact, it would be natural for you to having chosen a black woman as your wife. That's fine. But ethno-nationalism is not racism. It is ethnic preservation and race-realism. A lot of people in our post-traditional world do not equate ethnicity with identity, but I and other ethno-nationalists do. You can hate us for that - fine, but you can't necessarily call us racist. I abhor racism myself, but I'm not going to pretend that Britain would still be Britain if the indigenous people were a minority. I'm just not that desperate to appear politically correct.


Originally posted by Muckster
How convenient for you... I bet if those people where in a position to deal with it you wouldn’t be so keen.

So when I say something that you're unable to attack, I'm lying?


Originally posted by Muckster
Ridiculous comment... Racism is ignorance... THIS website has even stated it... Racism is not welcome on this website...

I wholeheartedly agree. To say one race is better than another, or to judge someone's character based on their ancestry is horrific. However, to base someone's identity on their ancestry is not. I tend to stand by this quote from Enoch Powell:

"If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell


Originally posted by Muckster
What a terrible shame that in this day and age we still have organisations with such warped ideologies and mentalities of racial superiority...

What in the BNP's ideology indicates 'racial superiority'? And don't give me that crap about what members have said in the past - we all know that and we all think they're idiots for it. But what in BNP POLICY is racist? Naturally you'll tell me that the BNP's policy is dishonest and that if they got into power it would all go out the window. But if we start second-guessing political parties then there'd be no sense trusting ANY of them - not even the English Democrats.


Originally posted by Muckster
I say this with conviction... My wife is Black... My Children are mixed race... Any political party tries to kick us out of our own country and i’ll go to war!

And I'll go to war with you, to defend your right to stay. On a personal level I may not agree with mixed-race relationships, because I want my children to value their ethnic identity as well as their cultural. You and I have vastly different worldviews but that doesn't mean I have the right to criticise your decisions and nor does it mean that I hold your family in any lesser regard than I do the indigenous people of Britain.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


Well put chap. Being proud of your heritage, ancestry and culture is commendable and is promoted in most parts of the world. Ironically, as victors of WW2 where we fought against real fascists for our freedom, we're now so guilty of our heritage we don't feel free enough to express it, because of left-wing "facism".

Being proud of your heritage should not mean you're racist or look down on others from elsewhere. I work with people from all over, from the Ukraine to Ghana, I have a gay mate and one of my best mates is married to a black woman, no issues with any of them, but somehow being proud of being English means I am a racist. Go figure.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 

I know. It's a terrible state of affairs. Too many people think the view you or I hold must automatically mean we hate non-whites, foreigners and homosexuals. Nothing could be further from the truth. If anyone here met me they'd find me one of the most polite, agreeable and, in a sense, liberal people. I don't treat ethnic minorities that I meet day to day with any less courtesy than white people. Why would I? I don't judge them by their ethnicity, nor do I avoid them. But equally, I'm not going to sacrifice my own values and heritage to make them more comfortable - should they demand as much.



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


I have no issue with any immigrant, provided the following is adhered to:


  1. They can support themselves financially
  2. They have skills which are needed
  3. They can speak English
  4. And are willing to integrate


The same criteria that countries such as Canada, New Zealand and Australia have.
What I do not want is waves of "economic migrants" from across the world flooding into the UK illegally, then claiming asylum in order to be given a free home and some Government cash.

Nor do I want waves of people from across the world coming here who are unwilling to intergrate or worse yet, are seeking to change our way of life.

That is colonialism, not immigration!



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by solidshot
 

if you want to talk about reverse racism and New Labour then start another thread...


Wait just a minute. So when we are talking about racism against white people it is not just plain racism, no, it is something different, it is reverse racism (as if saying you cannot be racist to a white person?). Since when is racism against white people a different thing to racism against black people or hispanic people. Racism is racism and to imply that white people suffer some different sort form (a not so bad!!), is quite frankly, racist and precisely the sort of anti-white sentiment that sends votes in Griffins direction.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by quackers]



posted on Oct, 24 2009 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by quackers
 


Nope... I’m afraid you have misunderstood me or I haven’t explained myself clearly...

Reverse racism is a term used to describe this idiotic PC corporate/government way of balancing out the work place, as if somehow Racism can be a positive thing... something I disagree with and feel is just plain racism... however it is a term that is widely used and understood in this context.

Personally if you give anyone a job simply on the basis of colour or race (whatever that colour or race) it is racism... Simple...

I apologise for any misunderstanding...

The Reason i was dismissive of the origin posters comment is because we are talking about the BNP... Not Labour, nor Conservative, otherwise we will be here all day discussing the various parties and their faults...

And yes... i know i have mentioned the English Democrats but that was merely to point out that people do have other alternatives.

en.wikipedia.org...




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