The Jesus Conspiracy & why you believe..., page 1
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reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 10:13 AM by LordBucket
reply to post by Jkd Up




the Old Testiment was mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls,
therefore validating it's historical exsistance. However,
the New Testiment was not mentioned at any time before King Constantine.


Reason being, it didn't exist prior.

What is known by christians as the "old testment" is the jewish Tanakh. It wasn't until the council of Nicea in 325AD that work began to consolidate the various writings into one book, dismiss the ones they didn't like, and call it the bible.

To phrase it indelicately, the jews had their own books for a long time, and then one day the christians came along and stapled their own works to the end of a collection of jewish writings, and called it their own.


Does this stike anyone following the New Testiment as odd?


I personally find it far more amusing to hear christians disapprove of mormonism. Because the mormons basically did the same thing: they took the bible and said "Oh, yeah...that's true, BUT!!! Here's the book of mormon. It's more current, so it takes precedence."



[edit on 22-10-2009 by LordBucket]


reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 10:14 AM by kettlebellysmith
The gospels were indeed written quite a while after Jesus died. But the manuscripts we HAVE are dated at 60 to 100 years after His death. That does not mean there are not earlier manuscripts. It just means we haven't found them.
As far as the Canon is concerned, there were a great many manuscripts that didn't make it into the bible. That includes the Old Testament as well(example; the Book of Enoch.) Those well versed in scripture did not believe these books were divinely inspired. In fact some of them, especially some of the purported "gospels" are obvious forgeries.
The rest of the New Testament is, as mentioned above, are letters written by Paul and other apostles to individual churches, chiding them for their mistakes in doctrine and praising them when they were correct in their decisions.
The main thing about the Bible is the message. Jesus came to fulfill the law and allow us to be saved from our sins. If you choose to believe that, then I think it is wonderfu. If you choose not to believe it, then why do so many want to deny me or others the right to believe?
I don't think Jesus was a "conspiracy.' He was a real man, who referred to himself as The Son Of Man and The Son of God, indicating his dual nature, which was without sin. As humans, we are born with a similar nature, a dual nature. The difference is we have a good side and an evil side. The evil side will prevent us from keeping the "whole of the law" thus rendering us sinners. If we accept Christ, and if we practice what Jesus taught, then we are changed, and will be appropriatly judged by God at the ressurection.


reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 10:22 AM by NatureBoy
because the message if you actually pay attention if evil. Firstly did you forget that the NEW testiment introduces the idea of eternal damnation? Did you forget that the NEW testiment supports the old testiment? Did you forget that the NEW testiment is a cairfully crafted psychologically powerful work designed to control and manipulate your thoughts?

Read it again, pay attention to the threats and the fear inducing hyperbol which fills is. Do you believe jesus will sit in judgement of you disecting your life in frount of everyone thats ever lived and if you've failed to follow the harshist and most impossible of his rules that he'll throw you into a pit of torment and stand laughing as you suffer? That's what the book says.

Didn't jesus say that even THINKING about adultury or coveting is breaking gods greatest commandments? Do you believe that this 'saviour' will stand before you and cast you into the pits of hell because of a biological imperative sexual drive to reproduce which is all but uncontrollable subliminally actuated reflex action?

I believe that however i came to be here i have but one duty to my existence, that is to use my abilitys to their best and enjoy myself fully. Should at some time some magic window of quantum science let some bored race watch my life or should some strange sky wizard or creator god observe my movments then would not he want me to act as well as i could, to make do with what i have and to be the person that i am?

This book is designed to convince you to fear and reject truth, it may contain nuggets of wisdom and indeed perfect pure universal truth but those are not what it promotes. If anything it introduces them to draw false conclusions and thus end debate before it begins, remeber also that none of this was new - epicuras, aristophanes, plato and many more had debated at length the power and possible missuse of religion. Egypt from wence moses came had been doing it for millenia, Judia from which Jesus's teachings are taught was going through the romanization process and converting old tribal customs into globalist dictator tactics of which the latin empire had perfected long ago.

Indeed is it an accident that the spread of jesus comes from rome? That pontus maximus was ceaser and now pope? The old system of semi-democratic rome was simpley superseaded by the more powerfully convincing catholic empire. With bibe in hand many misdeeds were done, cryptojews tortured, athiests burnt, islam pillaged.

Maybe once a goodly man, one with many ideas and a great creative mind did walk the streets of gallalie, of canea, jerusalum his words so wise perhaps some did follow, sit at his feet to learn. His words must have opened many eyes when he spoke out against the priests, over turned tables and talked of smashing the ungodly system. Alas to the winds of times his wise words blew, maybe many mostlikely only a few survived and slowly the process began. Clergy, theologians, kings and warlords dabbled every chance they got at the books mucky pages and soon it became the weapon it is now - designed maybe unknowingly to make sure no one with the kindness, compassion or clarity of vision of that man could ever walk these green and plesants lands again.

Christian religion is a complex and very powerful spell cast over the population and ingrained so deep in the fabric of modern society that it'll take many decades if not hundreds of years to overcomes its impact. We must if we are to be true to all the good people who have been involved in religion over the years, certainly that wise jewish boy who around 2000 years ago was just starting to formulate his objection to the control impossed by organised religion. I can't help but feel sorry for the boy who said you don't need a church to be close to god, you don't need a priest to make you holy, you don't need a penny to prey - if he were looking down at the ville phalic spires spotted all over this globe, down into the nave where above the abomidable alter -reminder of those darker days when each act was still atoned by dripping blood and slaughtered flesh- hangs his visage nailed bloody flaied flesh a warning, a threat -what could he think of us? I suspect a deep tear jerking compassion would well up inside him, a deep tear for those abused, controlled, enslaved and tourtured if not physically then certainly mentally by the vial dogma pushed in his name.

For him, and for all others that have ever lived or never lived i do my best to enjoy and understand myself and the world, never will the blinkers of faith fall over my eyes - that awful invention of some clergy class, desperate to protect their power and status - never will i alow myself to be part of something on trust alone, never will i hand over my duty to decency and self moderation to so other force, never will i close off the brain i was given and trust some other authority - i am a thinking being, i have a duty to think.

Break free of the spell they cast on you, all you've really got to do is want to think for yourself and soon you'll be amazed at how good at it you are - i'm sure you've been doing it your whole life but just didn't dare admit it...


reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 12:01 PM by Jkd Up
reply to post by LordBucket



This is very true! Thank you for a wonderful point!



reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 01:20 PM by NatureBoy
reply to post by OneDivided



sure deism is a fine belief and i respect your position, you remember how hard the church battled against it? Only the very rich and powerfull managed to battle for the right to practice religion in this way - this was only made possible due to the Age of Enlightenment which saw many traditional christian roles and morals overturned - before this time death by burning for the crime of herrasy. It was illigal and a capital crime to be an athiest even as late as the 19th century!

You are on the right path not trusting the church, however never forget they they crafted the bible - they chose its texts. Nothing holy or divine went into the process, they are books written by men and if you wish to understand them then a study of the Apocrypha and other biblically contemporay texts is vital. Learn from the wisdom of the bible but don't have faith that it's right, use the vast computational power of reasoning, logic and wisdom you've been given to understand and make your own life, surely thats what any just and sensible god would want?



reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 01:36 PM by Jkd Up
reply to post by OneDivided



Plenty of people died over it during the Crusades...


reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 02:09 PM by NatureBoy
reply to post by Jkd Up



don't forget that being an athiest was a capital crime punishable by death in every god fearing christian nation - pleanty of people who chose not to believe in sky wizards were killed because of this, something that athiests never mention - if the world gets controlled by christians again we're all dead!


reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 02:15 PM by OneDivided
reply to post by NatureBoy



You make good points, and I am always searching for more info, thank you for the referral to those texts, I will look into them.

Jkd Up, they died at the hands of people doing exactly what their lord spoke against. Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

I agree that a whole lot of evil deeds are comitted "In God's name" but anyone who calls themselves a Christian, then kills in the name of god, obviously missed the point.

Don't blame god for the crusades, blame ignorance.


reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 02:19 PM by OneDivided
reply to post by NatureBoy



Christians that were really Christians, wouldn't be so bad....

When I say Christian I'm talking about the ones who actually read the bible, not the ones who sit In a church and let someone else tell them how to think.
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