If you can imagine it, it exists.

reply to post by Sheeper


appearances are just what your imagination is telling you. I apologize for your confusion as to my confusion.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by Sheeper]

reply to post by Sheeper


Ah, but, just as things are not always as they appear so also are things sometimes exactly as they appear. And there is no need for your apology as you did nothing to earn my confusion, accepted though not necessary.

Originally posted by afterschoolfun

But the things that don't exist will never be thought of. If you think of something, it exists. Maybe not in a physical sense, but you can't deny it existence because you have an idea of what the thing is. The OP only suggested that in a ∞ universe theory with ∞ possibilities, anything imaginable will exist physically (and anything any other cognitive being can think of as well)

ive concluded that this is almost to say, an impossible question/theory..atleast the way in which its worded.

you just about answered it here by refering to it as a "thing" or "something". what actualy exists is the individual thing. and not the combo of things added together in a so called harmony that one can imagine. so we can say for ex. a planet exists but we can not say that a teal planet with purple people eaters that breath hydrogen and live in giant apples exists. because in that we combine the color with the planet , creatures, chemical elements and all the other things.or even a time machine that destroys a universe. because we are describing what it does.we can have the machine or the destroying of the universes but to say its the time machine rather than anything else with in that given reality.

and natrualy the things that dont exist will never be thought of because of this. and yes, you cant completely deny any combo of things exists like that but its not a for sure thing ether. but with the infinite theory we could than say at some eventuality in time these combos would eventualy exist.
so the op idea is a contradiction to it self in that , yes and no its true but false.


[edit on 22-10-2009 by PApro]

Originally posted by AnotherSon

Originally posted by Primordial
I should be dead already.


I have purposely waited...it's been a few minutes.


I am still here.


Theory failed. Sorry.

I trust you are all the limitations you place upon yourself.
Namaste,

Sorry. The OP stated a theory. I tested it. It failed.

If you have nothing to add, like any actual evidence, you can keep your snide remarks to yourself.

I have been hearing about the unlimited potential of the human mind for ever. So far we have what... nothing. There is some, just a little, evidence for things such as ESP and remote viewing. Even these, compared to the OP, simple things are rare. In those who seem to possess such abilities, inconsistencies and inaccuracies are the norm.

As for the multiple, infinite universes, there is no evidence whatsoever. From what I can tell, some scientist was developing a mathematical model of the universe. It didn't work out unless they added another universe. Problem was that now the math didn't work out for the second unless a third was added...and so on.

So rather than say, hey my formula is crap and I should look for my mistake, they decided that there are unlimited universes. Not that their model may be wrong.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but there is no actual evidence for these multiple universes outside of mathematical models.

And as far as what limitations I place on myself... don't assume.... we all know what happens. I have experimented and experienced things I will not get into here, but I know the difference between having an open mind and believing any old crap that someone theorizes. No offense to the OP, but it is a theory based on nothing...only a belief.

And, I actually thought some more about my original post and gave that arrow some more properties. Consciousness and omnipotence. Just so it is aware of this thread and what it must do.

I am still here. Sorry to disappoint.

reply to post by Primordial


Finally some intelligence in this thread.

I'm reminded of this from Hitch-Hikers guide about Colluphid's argument that the Babel Fish could not be the result of evolution: The argument runs something like this. "I refuse to prove that I exist", says God, "for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing." "But", says Man, "the Babel Fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It proves you exist, and so therefore you don't. QED." "Oh dear", says God, "I hadn't thought of that", and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

The passage ends with: It should be noted that most leading theologians claim that Colluphid's argument is "a load of dingo's kidneys."


I'm trying to remember an argument presented by either B. Greene, R. Penrose, or J. Gribbin but I can't find the quote and I haven't quite got it right, my brains fuzzy it's 2.30 am. however it goes a little like this:If the multiverse is infinite with every possible state existing somewhere then there must be a state where nothing has ever existed anywhere in any combination of states ever. Thereby the first part is contradicted....It's not right, I'm missing something but you can see the idea. Perhaps someone out there with a proper physics education can clarify, I just read these books for pleasure.

Edit to add I'm always amused by the fact that mathematically it is more likely that we really do live in a simulation and that none of this is real.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by sharps]

[edit on 22-10-2009 by sharps]

I can relate to the concept and often console myself with the idea or something similar being real. But I keep coming back to something more practical. How can I use it to effect change right here and now. If everything is possible then imagine/see/envision change here and now. Otherwise to what effect is it anyway? It is just mental chatter without the substance to improve a life. An empty promise for those eager to change the ills they see and/or experience.

So don't forget to spend more time on the application of the concept than the concept itself or it might fail to deliver. If it doesn't deliver then it isn't worth thinking about. And if anyone can ever make it really work then let me know because I would love to hold my daughter again and hear her little laugh. No matter how many times I have envisioned her being alive again, I am still waiting.

Ok by this theory, then I could imagine that somewhere in the multiverse a version of me is envisioning that this version of me will become supreme ruler of Earth.

This may have been posted, so I apologize, but this is similar to the ten dimensions of reality.

I highly recommend this video to anyone! Anything and everything that's possible is possible in the 10 dimensions of reality with infinite possible universes.

Originally posted by whatukno
Ok by this theory, then I could imagine that somewhere in the multiverse a version of me is envisioning that this version of me will become supreme ruler of Earth.

well played. and thus disproving the theory in that now i will imagine myself in that same situation but we can not both be supreme rulers at the same time so who will it be? it cancels itself so now it doesnt exist.. yet you imagined it so if the idea is true it must exist.. still it doesnt

Originally posted by Avarus

I highly recommend this video to anyone! Anything and everything that's possible is possible in the 10 dimensions of reality with infinite possible universes.

key word "possible" not "actual"

Originally posted by DraconianKing
This is a load of nonsense, you can't prove that statement in any way. This is what happens when you abandon logic and reason.

This is a load of nonsense, you can't prove that statement in any way. I want you to PROVE that a multiverse is impossible hahah in fact i want you to prove anything is impossible. God the ego of some people. The only thing you can prove in this reality is that YOU cant do something or that YOU cant comprehend something. Stop limiting my reality because of a lack of imagination on your part.

In most of the world myth and historicity and logical evaluation never cross paths. The story behind the myth is more important.

To a tribalist if you do fantasize something it has soul and exists. What about "fictional" characters as Odysseus, Hawkeye (Bumppo or Pierce) Han Solo Bugs Bunny? These are universal images that may be more real than our images of our self...

reply to post by Avarus


I made reference to that same video earlier; thanks for posting it!

Again, watch what the 10th dimension theoretically is. It's the sum of all possible universes, including ones where fundamental forces may have different values in relation to each other.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


Nice avatar. It really fits with both this thread and what you are saying.

Sweet, So I really passed my history exam last week. Excellent!

reply to post by sharps


I think what your referring to is the theory that if all possibilities exist then there also exists the possibility that no possibilities exist because for all to exist then that includes every possibility. Basically what there trying to say is that regardless if we exist in a multiverse our reality might be the reality where we dont exist in a multiverse thus leading us to the conclusion that THE POSSIBILITY EXIST that we might be part of a multiverse but because of the infinite permutation and possibilities we might be in one of the realities where there is no multiverse.

NOW even if this is so that doesnt mean that there arent realms of reality where the multiverse theory doesnt hold true, it just mean there exist the possibility based on the multiverse theory itself that we might be in a reality where the postulated thoery doesnt exist.

The irony is regardless of what reality we live in the multiverse theory still can explain both realities. I'm sorry lads but there is nothing wrong with the theory it can never be proven right or wrong, And as long as there is a possibility that it might be right it exists.

Originally posted by PApro

Originally posted by whatukno
Ok by this theory, then I could imagine that somewhere in the multiverse a version of me is envisioning that this version of me will become supreme ruler of Earth.

well played. and thus disproving the theory in that now i will imagine myself in that same situation but we can not both be supreme rulers at the same time so who will it be? it cancels itself so now it doesnt exist.. yet you imagined it so if the idea is true it must exist.. still it doesnt

I think the problem your having is understand the word INFINITE. Im not saying i do but i AM saying in an infinite situation there exists the possibility that anybody can be ruler of the world if they so choose to be. you dont have to be ruler in his universe you will be ruler in yours.

The thing that makes this VERY true is Quantum Mechanics.
It pretty much says that anything is possible.

reply to post by sharps

Natureboy,
there is an error in your thinking about the egg. There is a very small probability (but crucially above zero) that an egg will materialize into your hand at the precise moment you uttered/wrote/thought those words. So you were only correct when the collapsing wave function of the absence of an egg had already occured, by which time it is a past event and not worthy of note.

ok here it is again, you can't break an egg unless you have an egg...

run one - - - - - - - - - - - - -egg?

i want to break an egg ---- no.
no egg apears -------------- no.
egg not broken ------------- no.

run two - - - - - -
i want to break an egg ---- no.
egg apears ----------------- yes.
SMASH EGG ---------------- broken egg.

see the subtle difference? The first one i don't have an egg, the second one i do have an egg - thus it still stands you can't break an egg if you don't have an egg.

You seem to be suggesting that time when applied to collapsing waveforms is as one way as it is when applied to sequential actions noticed by physical people but thats another debate entirely.... basically unless you somehow produce an egg, which must of course have existed in some form already (see thermodynamics), then you can not break an egg.

It is possible, and some would say likely, that a world with entirely different physical realitys to our own exists outside of our possible perception - 'the world is not just queerer than we suppose, it's queerer than we CAN suppose' - in all important ways they are as real as this existence, certainly for those inside them they feel as real i'm sure (although whoever said this reality feels real was surely crazy). Alas for us we aren't in a magic land, well rather we are but we're used to it - howmany existences have no one to morn the lack of gravity? how many wizards battle dragons while dreaming of life in three dimensions?

we can never answer these questions (well not for at least a thousand years or so, btw/ the answer is yes there sorta is but then again no there sorta isn't, it all boils down to how you define 'is' -but then so do most things) we can of course answer the more important question - do we exist? Of course this can only be answered in the positive, much like the non-existing egg which can never be broken - life can never be denied.

Some things can't happen, some things will always happen - suffering is inevitable for instance, to exist is to suffer.

all you fools that keep saying 'im thinking of this and it isn't happening' i hardly need to point out that you didn't read the thread -hehe of course because you'll only ever be able to prove me wrong it would be a foolish thing to do. The theory goes that somewhere in the vastness of space this could all be happening - somewhere in some distant and improbable land a trillion, trillion trillion worlds away from here down an astounding aray of mathmatically complex branches of logic yes it did happen - however for it to happen it automatically creates a world in which it didn't happen.... someone has to be aware of both existences and the both have to be you - somewhere your mind was just blown and all of a sudden you found out that women in general are fearfull of hugely overgrown phallusis and that they aren't screaming because they're enjoying the sensation of childbirth However that guy didn't post to ats

I have wandered through a number of posts and if this has already been mentioned, then mea culpa for repeating it.

It seems that the statement "If you can imagine it, it exists" is being interpreted to mean "if you can imagine it, then it is possible that it can exist." I wonder about the other interpretation. If you can imagine it, then you can do so only because it already exists.

In other words, I can only imagine things that already exist. Since I do not appear to be currently sleeping with Serena Williams or Angelina Jolie, it would suggest that if this premiss is true, then I should reframe my concept of what "exists" means. In the same way that assuming that the speed of light the same for all observers leads us to reframe the laws of motion, this reframing suggests not only that there are multiple realities but that I have access to them in some way because I can imagine them.



[edit on 22-10-2009 by metamagic]

reply to post by genma



Good point..

I guess this puts the god or no god discussion to bed. I believe in God, therefore he is real.