Originally posted by justine093
who is representing "the people"

Hopefully those who the people voted into the majority in the House, the Senate and the Executive branch. The people have spoken and said that they want Obama's agenda passed. The Democrats have a duty to do what they can to make that happen.

Republicans had their chance and blew it. It's the Democrat's turn now.

What Obama said is true. The Republicans vote with one voice most of the time and that voice says, "NO"!!! It's time the Democrats come back with a united "YES"!!!

[edit on 22-10-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

No one is left or right, plus i would suspect that obama and the democrats do what they are told too.

The Dem and Repub show is back. With brighter lights and bigger Stars. Next week on the Dem and Repub show-the Dems keep blaming the Repubs for not passing the bill. The following week-the Repubs call the Dems idiots. AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON.

Than guess what happens, We the people get screwed again. Less freedoms, more government, more taxes, more wars, etc. etc. etc.

Wake up. Look at my signature and try to dispute it. You cannot because it is a JOKE

[edit on 10/22/2009 by endisnighe]

[edit on 10/22/2009 by endisnighe]

Originally posted by andy1033
i would suspect that obama and the democrats do what they are told too.

You haven't been reading the news reports about the health-care debacle, have you?

Perhaps if Reid and Obama created a Health Care Reform bill that actually addressed things like poor getting health care, those without jobs or self employed getting healthcare, rising health care costs, those with health insurance who still get bankrupted by cancer etc, ability to sell insurance across state lines, Hospital ER's going broke giving healthcare to illegals...

Or any of that the Dems and maybe some Republicans might actually vote for it.

But when they put a 1500 page bill that doesn't address any of those problems, and in fact creates new ones by forcing people to buy health care and fining you when you don't get it, it's no freaking wonder their OWN part won't vote for it, much less anyone from another party.

The Dems problem isn't that they aren't unified, it's that they have a pile of dog doo-doo trying to pass for a health care bill.

Originally posted by shrike071

Originally posted by andy1033
i would suspect that obama and the democrats do what they are told too.

You haven't been reading the news reports about the health-care debacle, have you?

I think the first post hit it right in the sweet spot. The problem is you might be watching too much news.

1 Create the problems. Regulations that hurt competition-no regulation of lawsuits-no regulations on big pharma-etc etc etc.

2 Offer solutions-not real ones just more government, more taxes, mandatory insurance

Do you see a pattern.
Let me show you. Reagan good guy. Bush Sr. bad guy. Clinton good than bad guy. Bush bad guy. Obama good guy and bad guy. Welcome to the show. Step up and get your ticket to the SHOW.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
The Dems problem isn't that they aren't unified, it's that they have a pile of dog doo-doo trying to pass for a health care bill.

Actually, its a combination of both. Its also indicative of the poor recruiting choices the Democrats have made over the last couple of decades. In that time period, they've moved further and further away from their traditional base of support, the average blue-collar, fairly conservative American worker, and more towards interest and activist groups. The GOP, meanwhile, has very successfully stolen that blue collar base from them.

What we're seeing now is a power struggle between the 'new' socialist-lite Democrats and those few old, blue collar Dems that are still hanging around and who, out of lifelong loyalty, trying their best to choke down the agenda of a party that is in the process of leaving them behind. That's why the Democrats can't get healthcare or cap-and-trade passed. There are just enough Dem representatives from rural districts filled with the old conservative Dems who aren't buying into it.

Please,both sides do what they are told by the lobbyists and banks.We The People is just as much a beginning of a fairy tale as Once upon a time.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The people have spoken and said that they want Obama's agenda passed. The Democrats have a duty to do what they can to make that happen.

Not exactly. Democrats already had the majority in Congress while Bush was in office, so the only thing that's changed there is Obama being elected.

I don't understand how what I said is related to what you said.

I am aware that the Democrats held Congress during the later Bush years. That doesn't change the fact that the country voted to put the Democrats in complete control in 2008.

The majority don't want Obama's agenda to pass. I would think the Democrats have a duty to listen to the people who voted for them and do what the voters want, not do everything they can to make sure Obama's agenda passes.

Normally, I would agree with you, but the people don't know what they're talking about. 99% of the people don't know what's in the bill except from hearing it spun on the "news". Obama campaigned on Health Insurance Reform, the people gave him and the Democrats the reigns, and now it's time to follow through on it.

Originally posted by endisnighe


Do you see a pattern.
Let me show you. Reagan good guy. Bush Sr. bad guy. Clinton good than bad guy. Bush bad guy. Obama good guy and bad guy. Welcome to the show. Step up and get your ticket to the SHOW.

Except that the Reagan good guy thing you get to hear so often is deeply rooted in "de mortuis nil nisi bene" on one side and in a irrational hero worship on the other side. It sounded a tad different when he was actually in office...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I am aware that the Democrats held Congress during the later Bush years. That doesn't change the fact that the country voted to put the Democrats in complete control in 2008.

Bush got the blame for everything Congress did in addition to everything he did himself. The people left all the members in Congress and just switched presidents. That's not saying they wanted Obama's agenda to pass, it's saying they wanted the anti-Bush in office which is how Obama appeared when he was campaigning. He appeared to be the complete opposite of Bush. That is what people voted for.

Normally, I would agree with you, but the people don't know what they're talking about. 99% of the people don't know what's in the bill except from hearing it spun on the "news". Obama campaigned on Health Insurance Reform, the people gave him and the Democrats the reigns, and now it's time to follow through on it.

So it doesn't matter that the majority of people are opposed to the bills floating through Congress because Obama's already been voted in? Tell me I misunderstood, because I find it hard to believe that was what you meant.

During the campaign no one knew exactly what it was Congress was going to do with the health bills. No one knew that everyone would be required to buy insurance with a federal mandate. No one knew that anyone who doesn't buy insurance will be fined. There are a lot of things that the people didn't know were going to be pushed for or were going to happen or they might have voted differently.

Congress is doing what Congress wants to do right now, not what the people want. If it continues, they won't all get to keep their jobs come election time.

Originally posted by Jenna
So it doesn't matter that the majority of people are opposed to the bills floating through Congress because Obama's already been voted in? Tell me I misunderstood, because I find it hard to believe that was what you meant.

That's not exactly what I meant. 99% of the people haven't read the bill and don't know what it says or means, so they can't possibly approve OR disapprove of it. Most people I talk to can't explain what a "public option" is. They just know they're against it and they get mad at me if I ask them to tell me what it is. They can't.

As I said, an acquaintance of mine said that if Obama gets his way, her grandfather (who's on Medicare) would be turned away at the hospital and sent home to die.

They don't know what they're talking about.

Congress is doing what Congress wants to do right now, not what the people want. If it continues, they won't all get to keep their jobs come election time.

And that is as it should be.

Republicans do exactly what they are told, they are told to stop the left at any opportunity no matter what the reason no matter what the issue, they are told to be the party of NO!

Forget bi-partisanship that no longer exists in this country. It's a fallacy. It's all about opposition and trying to stop a party in power from accomplishing anything so that round election time the party that is not in power can strike at them saying. "Look how little they accomplished in office! I if elected would accomplish much more."

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
That's not exactly what I meant. 99% of the people haven't read the bill and don't know what it says or means, so they can't possibly approve OR disapprove of it. Most people I talk to can't explain what a "public option" is. They just know they're against it and they get mad at me if I ask them to tell me what it is. They can't.

I believe that's a bit of an exaggeration. More than 1% of the population has read at least one of the bills or a summary of at least one of the bills. It doesn't take reading one of them to understand a fine for not having insurance and disapprove of it, nor does it take reading one to understand a federal mandate that says everyone has to buy insurance and disapproving of it.

Just because the people you've asked can't explain what a public option is doesn't mean that most of the population can't. That's like someone pointing at that YouTube video where they cherry picked clips of Americans who can't answer their questions and then saying the majority of Americans can't find Iraq on a map. Perhaps it's the way you're asking that makes people defensive? Not an accusation, just a suggestion that would explain why they get mad.

WTF is going on in this country and who is representing "the people"

since when have politicians represented anything other than their own self interests and bank accounts?

Holding obama to a higher standard than anyone else is a faulty argument. They're all corrupt...yet we elected them.