Political Storm over BNP on Major BBC Programe

Well said amagnon
All this talk of 'multiculturalism' suggests we live in a happy clappy hotpotch of different colours and beliefs. Anyone who has lived or worked in an area taken over and made separate by an incoming culture knows this isn't the case.
And now we get this proposed march. A few more votes for the BNP I think....
www.dailyexpress.co.uk...

Originally posted by Cythraul

We can debate the pros and cons of the BNP until the cows come home, but the entire argument rests on one single assertion - whether the BNP are racist or not. You believe they are, I don't.

So only allowing whites into your political party is not racist in your eyes?

Attending white supremacist and white nationals rallies and marches is not racist in your opinion?

Being CONVICTED (Nick Griffin, the leader) of distributing material likely to incite racial hatred is not racist?

I'm not really sure why you're denying that the BNP are racist?

I know you're not stupid..... so what are you playing at?

Yes I've seen evidence of some members espousing racist views which I strongly detest, but the party's policies are not racist. Then again... it comes down to how you define racism. If you think that preserving a homeland for an ethnic group is racist, then of course you're going to find the BNP's policies racist.

It's not some members... it's the majority... including the party LEADER.

Don't try and play the "it's only a few of them" game.... the party is inherently racist....it was set up by racists, for racists.
It is the epitome of racism and has no place in today's society.

Just because immigration is a problem and you may not want to join the Euro... doesn't mean you have to vote for racists...

That's just ridiculous.

Originally posted by blupblup
So only allowing whites into your political party is not racist in your eyes?

I realise how much abuse I'm going to get for saying this, but no, I don't believe it's racist. I believe that it's normal the world over for indigenous groups to be represented and the BNP are the only one here specifically for the indigenous people. They're not saying non-whites can't join because they're not good enough, or they don't want to be around them. They're saying (or used to) that non-whites can't join because there'd then be no organisation representing the indigenous people of Britain. I don't think anyone would be up in arms about an organisation specifically set up to represent Native Americans, or ethnic Mongolians, or black South Africans. Indeed in our own country no-one shouts down those groups who exist specifically to represent black police officers or Asian lawyers.

Having said that, I do believe the BNP have it wrong. I absolutely and unapologetically stand by their policy of representing the indigenous people of Britain, but I don't believe allowing non-whites membership will necessarily undermine that promise. I'm sure there are plenty of ethnic minorities here who would like Britain to remain predominantly indigenous in make up and who are happy to be the minority - as I would if I was born or lived in India. I'm a lover of sovereign, ancient cultures and that includes the ethnic identiy of such places. I extend this love to not only my own country but all others and I think it's far more racist to say that the indigenous Britons do not deserve majority ownership of this land whilst indigenous Chinese do deserve ownership over their land. Is that really so evil?

To respond to all your other points with one paragraph, I'll just repeat that I'm well-aware of the misdemeanours of BNP members and officials in the past. Some of them are clearly racist and were their personal views party policy, I'd have as much scorn for the BNP as you do. But I just don't believe in tarring everyone in a party with some brush, nor reinterpreting their policy and constitution based on the misdemeanours of individuals involved.

Nick Griffin's conviction was based on his writing the following in a publication:

I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat.

Uninformed and perhaps juvenile, yes! But I'm afraid I'm going to have to both disagree that it is a racist statement (unless you can point out what about the statement is overtly hateful or bigotted) and support his right to say it. I hope I don't get arrested for writing this post (although it's technically a possibility) but I just don't think the truth should ever fear scrutiny, and if someone wants to question the facts of history, even of the holocaust, he/she should be free to do so. I believe in freedom of speech. Griffin didn't say he hated Jews or that Jews are inferior. He didn't even say that the holocaust didn't happen. He simply criticised statistics.

reply to post by Cythraul


my 2 cents...cythraul, that statement about six millions jews being killed in the camps is not someones opinion. general dwight d. eisenhower went to great lengths to chronicle and document the holocaust, with hundreds of hours of film, thousands of still photos, tens of thousands of pages from the germans detailing the holocaust in workmenlike detail.
he did this because he knew that in the future, there would be skeptics that would not believe this happened, due to the mere size and scope of what the germans had done.
what griffin has said about this is simply dishonest, and brings into question his other opinions, whether they are valid or not. I, as an american, agree with him on some points concerning muslim immigration. We have some properties that are owned by muslims in the US, that appear to be at times, training fellow muslims in the tactics of warfare, and there is video footage of this. of course, the government agencies are keeping a close eye on them, but it is disconcerting to say the least.

Originally posted by Cythraul


I realise how much abuse I'm going to get for saying this, but no, I don't believe it's racist.

That's all i needed to hear
Thanks.

Indeed in our own country no-one shouts down those groups who exist specifically to represent black police officers or Asian lawyers.

How many times do we have to go over this?

It's the only (non) argument you have.

The Black police officers Association.... Is NOT a political party.
And were it not for the abuse and racist discrimination that Black and Asian officers endured for years, it would never have been set up.

It's a pathetic attempt to try and excuse yours and Nick Griffins racist views.

Uninformed and perhaps juvenile, yes! But I'm afraid I'm going to have to both disagree that it is a racist statement (unless you can point out what about the statement is overtly hateful or bigotted) and support his right to say it.

That's his infamous statement he made while on trial... and there was more... you just quoted a portion of it.
Here is more of it.


I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the Earth was flat … I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria


You also forgot to add the the statements that actually got him convicted were printed in "The rune" and he referred to the holocaust as the "Holohoax" and his "performance" on 'The cook report'

"This nonsense about gas chambers has been exposed as a total lie" - Nick Griffin.




Okaaaayyyyy Nick.

I mean... poor nick griffin eh?

The guy is as racist as they come.... as are all the members of the BNP...and it's supporters.

Not the people who voted them as a protest vote or to piss off the manistream parties...they knew not what they were getting into.

But people like you and others who support the BNP and try and deny or excuse the racism by playing the "protecting our culture and heritage" crap... it's BS.

It's just good old fashioned "Us Vs Them" and England for the whites crap.

The sooner the BNP just admit that anyone who isn't white, doesn't have a place in Britain and in their eyes are second class scum.... the better off we'll all be.

All the garbage about not being racist, just concerned about immigration.

It's rubbish.

There are countless videos of Nick and other High-ranking Nazi....er.... i mean BNP members spouting their hatred for all to see on youtube and all over the net.






[edit on 24/10/09 by blupblup]

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by blupblup

 

For them to use it and try and mislead and BS people that their forefathers fought in the war to keep Britain white is wrong.... that is not why they fought in the war...... Hitler and the Germans were white.... race has nothing to do with the war... but according to Nick Griffin.... it does.

not white, british!, if you lived in an area that had become an enclave of,for arguments sake, pakistani muslims, where you were now a minority and were no longer welcome in the neighbourhood that you had grown up in because of migrants, how would you vote?



[edit on 23/10/09 by blupblup]

reply to post by blupblup

There's clearly nothing I can say that you'll not take with a pinch of salt, so I won't bother. I abhor racism and you're just going to have to choose whether or not to believe me (though you've already drawn your conclusions, clearly). And, just a bit of advice here, but if you choose to continue labelling all BNP supporters as racists, you're never going to defeat the BNP, as you so wish. I can promise you that. Dealing with the issues that non-racist BNP supporters care about is the only way.

As for the holocaust, I'm not personally denying it, or even questioning it. I'm just standing up for the right of anyone to question history. Griffin's full statement, again, isn't overtly racist. Foolish and misguided, yes, but not racist. Trying to deny the facts of the holocaust does not mean you approve of racist murder, it just means you've chosen to be out of step with orthadox history - as many of us here in ATS are. Is it racist or evil to question 9/11? Think about it.

Originally posted by Cythraul
reply to post by blupblup
And, just a bit of advice here, but if you choose to continue labelling all BNP supporters as racists, you're never going to defeat the BNP, as you so wish. I can promise you that. Dealing with the issues that non-racist BNP supporters care about is the only way.

Well as i actually say "The ones who know full well what the BNP stand for, where they come from and where they want to take this country"

I've said it numerous times throughout this thread.

I also said those that did it as a protest vote or to piss of the mainstream parties are not those that I'm calling racist.

Neither are those who are unaware of what the BNP truly stand for...nor those who have no idea about their history.

It only take a little research.

Thanks for the advice... but it wasn't needed... had you actually read and understood my posts, you'd have seen that your "Advice" was not required.


Good luck with your campaign anyway.

The BNP are nut jobs. Indigenous British people? As far as I know there is no such thing. So how can you preserve what doesn't even exist in the first place? The BNP and their supporter have a warped view of the world that simply does not make any sense at all. I would like to think they have been brainwashed but I find it hard to believe the beliefs of the BNP are the only ones they have ever been exposed to in this day and age.

I'm glad he was on as it allowed people to see what a thoroughly despicable 'man' he is, he makes me ashamed to be human let alone British. The man's a white supremacist, holocaust denier, homophobe and Christian fundamentalist, he preaches about the indigenous population when Britain's been multi-culutral for thousands of years. I thought we were meant to be a civillised society, not neanderthals?

He was elected and sadly has earnt his place on the panel, denying him his voice would be Facist.

The man uses the politics of fear to try and divide societies so him and his henchmen can rise to power, a vote for the BNP would destroy what little power the people currently have.

A truely disgusting man and it's a shame to seepeople fall for his parties lies.





[edit on 25-10-2009 by bastion]

I find it difficult to believe those who say they aren't racist, yet are BNP supporters.

I hate racism and dislike the BNP, because it goes against everything i believe in.

Those BNP supporters who claim they aren't racist are in my opinion, either liars or just utterly ignorant and naive.

How can someone possibly say they are not racist yet support an obviously racist party like the BNP?

Originally posted by Jacob08
Indigenous British people? As far as I know there is no such thing.

Then you've got some serious investigating to do. What makes you think there is no such thing? (Clue: What was said on Question Time was so factually incorrect as to be laughable). Almost all Britons who are not of recent immigrant stock can trace their ancestry back to the people who first inhabited these Isles. Do you believe in indigenous Americans? Africans? Chinese? Or they myths also?

Originally posted by Kram09
How can someone possibly say they are not racist yet support an obviously racist party like the BNP?

It depends on how we define 'racism'. If recognising ethnicity as a fundamental part of national identity is racism, then you'll probably find that most people in the world are 'racist'.

reply to post by Jacob08


whooooaaah!
Can of worms opening here! I resent that remark. Apparantly I cannot be indigenous?



my family have been here for thousands of years buster!! It's like saying the aboriginals cannot be native to Australia because they migrated south over the islands, or the American Indians over the barring straights! So before you come out with any more racist and enflametry statements, I suggest you stop, coz what you are saying is why people are joining the bnp in the first place!

reply to post by blupblup


combined with my above statement, people here are starting to not care about those things anymore, they just want the problem sorted out and to be finally heard, a voice that only minorities seem to have, and the bnp are providing that voice whether you like it or not, especially when idiots say that we English cannot be indigenous!!! That knd of comment stops people like me from caring anymore..

Enough is enough

Originally posted by Selahobed
reply to post by blupblup

 

combined with my above statement, people here are starting to not care about those things anymore, they just want the problem sorted out and to be finally heard, a voice that only minorities seem to have, and the bnp are providing that voice whether you like it or not, especially when idiots say that we English cannot be indigenous!!! That knd of comment stops people like me from caring anymore..
Enough is enough

In what way do your statements relate to me?

Did i say anything about indigenous people?

Not really sure what you're talking about....

Those who say they are indigenous Brits, how do you know?

How many of you have researched your family history and can say you're 100% British?

The Normans invaded in 1066. They were descended from Vikings.

What exactly is an indigenous British person?

Doesn't even make sense.

I get the impression that some people now think that Nick Griffin has somehow made racism "acceptable."

Nazis - Jews

BNP - Muslims

reply to post by Kram09


I see this tennis match of indigenous as missing what I see as the point.

What about culture, heritage and traditions? should they be maintained even if others find them offensive, or unsafe like the 5th?

My family still abide by the English Borough rules on inheritance, is that wrong?

Originally posted by Kram09
Those who say they are indigenous Brits, how do you know?

How many of you have researched your family history and can say you're 100% British?

The Normans invaded in 1066. They were descended from Vikings.

What exactly is an indigenous British person?

Doesn't even make sense.

why is it so important to some to define how indigenously British they are. as far as i know most of my family has lived on this isle for many decades, but on my mothers side somewhere far back is some irish (Gypsy I think).After that god knows where my genes came from.

If we learn that we are all from a few tribes in Africa, we can get over this rascism nonsense? . people have different pigmentations of skin, get over it.

reply to post by blupblup


I was refering to the vid you posted, and the obvious anti Semite nature of various levels of the bnp, however you find that also in left wing circles also; the ultra left as well as the right have persecuted the Jews.

However, people who are not given a voice or allowed to speak will flock to those that give them such, and people who also deny the legitimacy of the indigenous population will act as a recruiting agent too, bypassing the obvious racism a a groups idealism, when your own ethnicity is being questioned, maligned and not allowed to be what you are. We are being discrimnated against in our own country, I have seen it, not just taken the word of the daily mail, and I for one won't accept it any longer. Especially when we have small groups in this country trying to change our law to suit their religion in the next few days. Why aren't the anti facist league marching against the facist Islamic sharia law? Because they are marching WITH them!!!

Enough is enough, and if these problems are not dealt with and addressed soon, there will be blood!

I reckon a lot of the hand wringers on this site live in leafy suburbs, and as it's not in their back yard they think they have the moral high ground with "we are all one" yadda yadda, but where I come from the tension is real, mounting, in your face, can't escape it, and if it isn't sorted soon, the leafy suburbs won't escape the aftermath either.