Of Flying Dragons and Metallic Discs

reply to post by SassyCat

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your post inspired me to look it up.

I'm having difficulty finding the source of what I want to call the unconscious-composite theory concerning the prevalence of dragons in myths around the world...but it goes something like this:

Dragons are fictitious animals composed of the most threatening characteristics of some of humankind's largest historical predators (snakes, large cats, birds). The dragon is thus an animal that the entirety of humankind came up with, though each culture did so independently from every other, because of the long evolutionary-psychological history of our species seeking safety from these creatures.

I like this theory, because it shows how far from Occam's razor the modern sciences will deviate in order to explain away something for which they have no room in their picture of the world. That doesn't mean dragons are or were real creatures/entities necessarily, but if the simplest answer is usually the right one, it stands to reason that every culture on the world might have come up with a version of the Dragon because there was really something there to be described.

It's the same with UFO abductions, really. Psychologists go to extraordinary lengths to explain how it is that so many people honestly believe themselves to have been abducted. Were it not taboo to take seriously the idea that abductions actually occur, there would be no need for such extravagant, imaginary intellectual gymnastics.

But, ah...think of how many Ph.D.s would be out of work if it turned out that Dragons were real and abductions took place! That'd be a real tragedy, it would.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by beatnietzsche]

Its amazing that theories like that are actually accepted as reasonable. The first thing I´d ask that person is "What about the benevolent Dragons? Are those the cats?"



The first achievement would be for general academia to acknowledge that mankind has a Dragon issue and an Abduction issue. Without even proposing what they are, just to acknowledge that something is happening to a number of people. 99% of the population is not even looking at these things as valid fields of interest yet...not to mention the implications.

Hey Skyfloating -- the Amazon reviews for F.W. Holiday's amazing book

THE DRAGON AND THE DISC

do not do it justice. Hope you can read this highly relevant UFO-paranormal research!

www.amazon.com...

reply to post by Skyfloating

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reply to post by drew hempel

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Fantastic. Didnt realize such a book exists

Yeah and actually John Michell's first book (he died this April and I met him back around 1998) -- well he made the same dragon UFO connection through LEY LINES -- fascinating stuff:

“The Flying Saucer Vision: The Holy Grail Restored” (1967). His insight was that U.F.O.’s were intimately connected to ancient British myths like those of King Arthur and the Holy Grail, although he never seemed to spell out exactly how. He soon took members of the Rolling Stones to Stonehenge to scan the heavens for saucers.

reply to post by Skyfloating

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I believe I saw pictures of these people somewhere online. I cannot verify the authenticity of the photo, but I'll try to dig it up.




This is what I was thinking of.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by Enrikez]

I d love you to do the same for european witch myths.. you know the hat ^^

reply to post by Enrikez

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Those pics are part of the 70s hoax-book mentioned in the OP...just FYI.

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Thank you for another good posting sky, I can't wait for number three. You know what scares me the most, is the fact that you me and many of us on this post and others talking about ancient civilizations may have figured out the clue to our TRUE history on this planet. I've recently wondered if the people in the know do let off a sigh of relief when they see that one or two people got it right, but since it's on ATS or any number of sites it's considered non believable. I truly think that we have figured out at least part of our past, but we can't get anybody to come out and officially say it. Also I think the big reason why they can't come out and tell us that extra-terrestrials helped with our civilizations is because of the loss of control and power with the elite. You can control people alot of ways, religion being one of them. If they came out and said it, then the parts of christianity are wrong along with the muslim faith and others, totally wrong. It's no coincidence that Genesis and the story of adam and eve changed from the Sumerian legend that they got it from, along with many other writings.

The farther away in space and time of an incident, the more chances it will chance from the original story. Over the years and centuries and millenia, people are getting second and nth hand accounts of this history and traditions (based on something that they may have seen one of these ancients do Like you said talking into a device) and that history and traditions. They don't know why they do it or think it's for this because their father told them it is and their fathers fathers told them it was. And this doesn't even take into account some idiot ruler or religious zealot that decides to unsurp the awe and mystic of these ancient people and use their image and their way of doing things (even though they have no way of replicating it) to control the masses. When the leader can't figure out how to work something that the masses seen the ancients do, he just makes up a story or tells them that this is the new way because they spoke to him and showed him this or that. True there will be skeptics back then, but they are outnumbered by the people who see this "leader" as a representative of the ancient ones who came down on dragons/ships.

Then as stated before the millenia go by, no one has any knowledge of the true ancient astronauts. They only know them from drawings and sculptures and representations and likeness to animals. But what is told to them over and over again is the representative or leader view/interpretation of events.

Apologies, I didnt mean to imply that your work was incomplete, i only wanted to add supporting information if desired.

You have done a masterful job of researching, referencing, presenting and stating your concepts and theories - to be applauded.

As to my writing on the energetic aspects of "dragons inside us all" and so forth, I have given that consideration because it is also extremely personal and somewhat horrifying at times - however the discussion of entheogens on this board is forbidden so I had better get creative ;-)


Thanks

Bravo

Oh I almost forgot, this is a good website that connects alot of different databases and links to ancient civilizations and other OOPARTS (Out Of Place Artifacts).

www.s8int.com...

excellent work sky. . . im still digesting part one and going through it and its corobarating evidence. . . .

Its so great to see so much work put into your thread. I'll report back with some thoughts and opinions when I get done sifting through the mountain of data compiled between part 1 and 2.

It seems that there are still mysterious archaeological discoveries being made in China today. Small bits of evidence of ancient aliens are found all over the world, but I am always curious when this evidence goes "missing". I often wonder if religion or government have anything to do with the debunkers of these ideas. I found this quite interesting and wonder if the Op had seen it or read about it at all. What do you think?


www.china.org.cn...


I, too, can hardly wait for part 3.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by Tasty Canadian]

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Always a pleasure to read your posts man, keep it up! S&F'd!

I'd like to add/dispute some points.

The Pig-dragon and the torch-dragon, even though both pronounced as 'Zhulong', are two different types of mythical Chinese dragons. The torch-dragon is a deity with human head and serpent body, decribed in 'Shang Hai Jing' ('The Book of Mountains and Seas'), and the pig-dragons are pig-fetus-like dragon, worshiped by the HongShan culture.

On Huang Di riding on a dragon, I looked at the original text describing the event, it says "黄帝上骑", "上" means 'above' and "骑" means 'ride' and it does not say "inside". Of course the guy wrote this could be striving for poetry, that is also a possibility.

This clip best describes how would a serpent dragon fly and be ridden on, in our East Asian psyche:
www.youtube.com...

This picture depicts Huang Di's ascension into the sky, with the artist's interpretation of course:
a4.att.hudong.com...

If people are supposed to get inside the "dragons", you'd think there would be at least a few who clearly state that, but all the artworks and text explicitly describe "riding" as you would ride on a horse.

The pictograph character for "dragon" looks exactly like it's depicting a serpent dragon creature, notice its head, horns, legs and tails. Perhaps you are not familiar with the subtle style of the strokes so this idea does not register with you, therefore you would prefer to interpret it another way.

Dragons in the water is also a crucial part of the overall Chinese dragon culture.

The word "壁" does not mean "sky", but rather describes the kind of jade objects that are used to pay tribute to the gods in the sky.

I believe these disks with a hole in it have a greater meaning than implying a tool used for transportation, in this case, disk-shaped spaceships.

I'm not an expert on Chinese culture but I do think the you tried a bit too hard to combine and fit those materials into descriptions of disk-shaped, metallic spaceships. If anything, serpent dragons being cylinder-shaped spaceships would be a better bet. It still possible you may be right though, other explanations may also be valid.

Once I read on a Chinese forum where a poster with background in the state-owned science department, said his team had captured a very young serpent dragon alive. With his credibility coupled with many eyewitness accounts (such as one account of village people during a flood seeing a serpent dragon emerge from the water and ascend into the sky), I'm inclined to believe serpent dragons are real and organic.

Another very credible poster on the Chinese forums once said the Chinese are not the "Descendants of the Dragon" but rather the "owners", he also said our ancestors come from the 5th dimention and the Chinese military has the technology to project images of their world. So on the part of human's alien origins, he sort of confirms your theory which I tend to agree, apart from dragons being disc-shaped mechanical spaceships.

Also an interesting side note, those jade dragons discovered from the ancient archeology sites of HongShan culture have found their way into several Chinese organizations/projects as symbols.

HongShan jade dragon


Eg: The logo of the Huaxia Bank


Eg: The Logo of CLEP (Chinese Lunar Exploration Program)


The Chinese government knows something we don't about the dragons?

[edit on 22-10-2009 by nighinfinite]

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Hey Skyfloating another great post by you ! Star and Flagged

I will just comment and correct the romanization of the dragon orb
"Yuh Ji Joo" should be romanized to "Yeo Eui Joo" in Korean "여의주"
It has very significant meaning in buddhism and apocryphons of Mahayana Buddhism.

If interest, i will post more history and meanings behind it as well

A few years back an Inuit Shaman called Grey Wolf came to my country to share a sweat lodge with seekers. Afterwards I talked with him and he pointed out Katchina, the Blue Star. It is the star we call Sirius, which apparently is not able to be seen from the northern hemisphere for the longest time. And when it does reappaear it is to be seen and understood to be a sign of timing, as we approach further events on our world.

Sky, we've run out of superlatives for your efforts. Suffice to say your work will be an eye-opener for many, so well done friend.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by Tayesin]

Speaking of tigers, eagles, dragons, etc. in relation to China, I wonder if those stories had anything to do with the origin or formation of the ancient martial arts like Kung Fu? After all, Kung Fu does utilize self-defense and fighting styles and techniques attributed to those animals (dragon, crane, eagle, tiger, mantis, and so on). Kung Fu is also famously practiced by Buddhist monks. Could there be a correlation between aliens, martial arts, Buddhism, monks, heavy UFO sitings and superstitions in their heavily guarded mountains, their recent almost smug assurance and hints of inside knowledge that the world will not end in 2012 because the earth is being protected by 'outside' forces, etc.? Did the Buddhists study real animals in designing their martial art, or did they study or were they taught by ancient ETs that looked like those animals? Hmmmm.....



[edit on 22-10-2009 by gazerstar]

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Wow, that was a hefty bit of reading, definitely interesting things to ponder here

I'm not at all opposed to the idea that UFOs and those within them have visited here in the past and been seen but to believe that serpent or dragon myths are actually relating to UFO sitings is a little hard to swallow. Perhaps the ancients were seeing UFOs but wouldn't we be looking to see more accounts like the one Ezekiel had in the Old Testament, in Ezekiel's account he never personifies the UFO as a dragon or something exotic (though he does mention the idea of its spirit being bound to the living beings within them).

In some ways the theory does make sense, the idea that the ancients would see this shimmering metallic craft, see flames spitting from exhaust ports and assume it was a great living beast spitting fire but at the same time I don't want to belittle the creativity of the ancients. There is a danger in assuming that all myths and ancient fictions come from truth and we often in this modern age like to downplay the ingenuity and creativity of the ancients.

I don't rule out the idea that what they are seeing and personifying as a dragon is actually a UFO but as an open-minded skeptic I have to look at the simplest explanation first. Its like someone 3000 years in the future coming across Star Wars and debating whether this really happened back then. Myths are often the science fiction of the past and we really don't give enough credit to those who made them up. Carl Sagan's quote may seem arrogant but it makes sense, humans are deeply afraid of various forms of life and our collective unconscious seems to be the cause.

I suppose its possible, the dragon UFO connection, and there is a distinct possibility of UFO or ET visitation steering human history and shaping human myth but I'm still not 100% convinced.

If it is true and beings from other worlds were in direct contact with our ancestors why do they seem to reluctant to talk to us now as opposed to early in our history when we were even more chaotic and violent then we are now?

Great thread nonetheless, I can't imagine the time and amount of work and research it took to put this together. Definitely thought provoking stuff

Again I really enjoyed the thread skyfloating thank you

the dwarf like peple remind me of the ''elves'' in iceland.