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New FDR Decode

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posted on Dec, 6 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by 767doctor

Originally posted by JFrickenK

Originally posted by 767doctor


Just because something does not display on the EICAS does not mean that it is not routed to the FDAU... 28-21-02 is a prime example of that as it IS recorded in the official FOIA release, and that value DOES fluctuate.



We've been over this. The DFL's states what port the FLT DECK DOOR comes in on and word it is. It's the EICAS L/R A-1 port. EICAS needs to see the sensor. My AA guys tells me their planes are the same as ours in this regard.
Can you spot EICAS on the prints I posted?


Have you looked at 28-21-02 and AAL_tabular.csv column 106 ?

If so can you show me the EICAS display for it ?

Can you even begin to understand the implications of my point ?


Almost missed this. Right now we are talking about the FLT DECK DOOR parameter.


Last time I checked the topic of the thread was "New FDR decode".




posted on Dec, 6 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by JFrickenK
 


Fair enough, thanks for the reply. I'll go back and read what you quoted
and check out the CSV when I am near my computer again.

If you could be so kind to check the private message here( U2U), I would
appreciate it.



posted on Dec, 6 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by turbofan
reply to post by JFrickenK
 


Fair enough, thanks for the reply. I'll go back and read what you quoted
and check out the CSV when I am near my computer again.

If you could be so kind to check the private message here( U2U), I would
appreciate it.


Could you point me towards the PM section here ?
I am totally unfamiliar with this board in that respect.



posted on Dec, 6 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by JFrickenK
 


You should see a red "U2U" along the row of buttons on the top of the page. Click that. If it`s not lit you can go to "Member Tools" and it`s in the menu under "U2U".



posted on Dec, 6 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by JFrickenK
 


You should see a red "U2U" along the row of buttons on the top of the page. Click that. If it`s not lit you can go to "Member Tools" and it`s in the menu under "U2U".


Thank you, I found it.



posted on Dec, 6 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by JFrickenK
 


You should see a red "U2U" along the row of buttons on the top of the page. Click that. If it`s not lit you can go to "Member Tools" and it`s in the menu under "U2U".



I didn't notice it either, thanks for that.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 03:56 AM
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Stopping in to clear up any confusion.

1. Dennis and I spoke from about 2am to about 0630am yesterday morning. He knows the past 11 flights show closed according to Warrens decode and he also knows there isnt any information available to positively identify those past 11 flights as passenger service with American Airlines. In other words, he doesnt just assume. We also covered other topics with respect to the work of P4T as well. Tino has also informed Dennis of all the facts Tino disagrees with including the "past 11 flights" data showing the door closed. Not sure why Tino would withhold this information from you. Remember, Tino claims Dennis is his "buddy" from P4T.

2. There are exclusive parameters recorded in the FDR data which pass through the EICAS that do not have an associated EICAS message. This was covered on the P4T forum and JFK has been trying to explain this to you here.

3. Jay, you may want to tone down your ad homs and personal attacks. Others reading may understand the reason you got banned at P4T. Calling other people names and accusing them of reading comprehension problems really isnt very productive.

We will update our article as more information becomes available. For now, it's best to follow our progress through the thread linked on the original article.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Enjoy your morning folks!

[edit on 7-12-2009 by R_Mackey]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by R_Mackey


2. There are exclusive parameters recorded in the FDR data which pass through the EICAS that do not have an associated EICAS message. This was covered on the P4T forum and JFK has been trying to explain this to you here.

3. Jay, you may want to tone down your ad homs and personal attacks. Others reading may understand the reason you got banned at P4T. Calling other people names and accusing them of reading comprehension problems really isnt very productive.

Enjoy your morning folks!



Wrong.

EICAS stands for Engine Indicating and Crew Alerting System. I think we can safely throw out the FDD being an engine related parameter, or a synoptic parameter like control surface position. So what do you reckon the parameter is, if not part of the Crew Alert System(the CAS part of EICAS), which are EICAS messages?

All other parameters with "door" in the description are exact copies of their respective EICAS messages. If you have something linking EICAS and FLT DECK DOOR, its time to show it - or publish a retraction.

I showed the cockpit door schematics, both pre and post 9/11 for our fleet. JFK chose to respond to these with antics, rather than debate. I don't suffer fools gladly, hence my negative tone with him. They show no EICAS connection to the cockpit door in any way, shape or form. My AA friend confirms that the schematics are the same for AA's fleet.

Time to put up or shut up, Bobby. Nor more "well, it could be this way since this other parameter does this and it doesn't do this or that..blah blah blah" crap. Show me the door being connected to EICAS or any evidence that this parameter was working or retract.





[edit on 7-12-2009 by 767doctor]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 04:59 AM
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Since you wanted to gown down this road, Bobby.

Door Warning System - B757. All door warnings on the 757 have associated EICAS messages.

EICAS message list - all doors.

Isn't it funny that I'm posting the evidence that your team of crack researchers should be posting?



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by 767doctor
My AA friend confirms that the schematics are the same for AA's fleet.


I'm sure your friends cousin saw Santa Claus as well, Still doesnt make it true.

Jay, try reading the thread at the P4T forum. I really prefer to not waste my time bickering with you. Especially when you didnt even realize the DFL's were different, hence modified.

Do you know why the AA DFL has a different conversion factor for Pressure altitude and Warren thought they were "incorrect" in the AA DFL, therefore he used the Generic DFL?

Jay, are both comparators required for flight at Delta?

5th time asked.

Enjoy your morning.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by R_Mackey]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 05:09 AM
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Ah, so you'll be posting absolute proof? What if he sends me a copy of AA's schematics, Bobby? Then will you retract and end this ridiculous farce?

For those who missed it earlier. Pre 9/11 Cockpit Door Schematic - B757

Bobby needs to show this exact schematic from AA's manual which shows a connection from the flight deck door sensor(S10165 in this drawing) to EICAS.


eta: obvious typo, not an attack


[edit on 7-12-2009 by 767doctor]

[edit on 7-12-2009 by 767doctor]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by R_Mackey

I'm sure your friends cousin saw Santa Claus as well, Still doesnt make it true.


Unlike you, I have have no motive to lie. Unlike you, I don't have a credibility problem. His words:

According to our SSM 52-71-01 there is not FLT DECK DR message for EICAS. All external doors are hooked into EICAS of course.

The only difference between our 757 and your 757 door warning system is that we have a warning for the overwing slide. Looking WDM for the door all you have is the CB, the relay on the P34, the overhead panel and the door lock. Just like yours I imagine

If I'm intrepreting this right there's a parameter for the FLT DECK DR on the DFAU/FDR. Looking at our manuals I don't see where the door is hooked up into it in anyway since it's not part of EICAS. Which would fall into line with the way AA is about options. Unless told they have to hook something up.




posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 05:24 AM
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reply to post by R_Mackey
 


What information am I withholding and from whom?

Yes, Dennis and I are "buddies" in the sense that we e-mail a few times
per week for the past two years, and sometimes several times per day.



[edit on 7-12-2009 by turbofan]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by 767doctor
Since you wanted to gown down this road, Bobby.

Door Warning System - B757. All door warnings on the 757 have associated EICAS messages.


Wow, I didn't realize that flight 77 was a 757-ER

Perhaps you would like to post the "effective aircraft" portion of section FM of the same manual.

I am not a betting man, but I would bet that you will not find either 24602 or N644AA on that/those pages.

Until you do, your points are moot.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by JFrickenK
 


JFK, you are repeatedly showing a misunderstanding of what's been presented.

This post is just another unnecessary exhibit.

The subject, and reason for the scematic was to show the door warning diagram. To show how they tie in to the EICAS.

For the record...there is no such thing as a B-757 "ER". There may be certain mods out there, operator-specific, with some aditional fuel tanks for added capacity. But, leaving that aside for a moment --- even with the "stock" fuel capacity, what some operators opt for is (by paying extra to Boeing for the paperwork, performance data, certification data, etc, etc, etc) is an increase in the MGTOW. SO THAT the airplane can lift a larger payload over longer distances...BECAUSE it can be fueled to capacity, for longest range and endurance.

It does NOT CHANGE the doors configuration!!!!! Allow me to repeat -- the doors are NOT changed -- only the paperwork, in essence. (Or, also, possibly either the landing gear structure is swapped out, or the mainentance inspection intervals modified, because of the higher operating weights. There are a lot of technical differences, you can't even begin to imagine. And, even I know this, and I'm not a mechanic).

Make sense now?

Because, there are many, many other things you keep arguing about that are just plain wrong. Or, misguided. Or, have been so heavily influenced by the P4T nonsense that...well, I won't finish that sentence.

(PS...usually when ANY manual...the AMM, the AFM, or the pilot's Jeppeson books...the OLD pages are removed and thrown away. I would think that should be obvious to anyone with even a nodding acquantance with aviation).
_____________________________________________________________

Oh, and here's a prime example:


I am not a betting man, but I would bet that you will not find either 24602 or N644AA on that/those pages.


JFK --- an airline's AMM is NOT going to list every N-Number specfically!!!!

To suggest that is showing, as I've alluded to, a lack of comprehension of how the real world operates.

At most it might have a note showing a range of S/Ns that it is pertinent to. BUT, and get this --- IF a particualr system scematic is the SAME for an entire fleet, then there is NO NEED for a note specifiy applicable S/Ns. See?



[edit on 7 December 2009 by weedwhacker]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by turbofan

Tino D.
Independent Researcher
Aerospace Technologist, RF communications.
Ontario, Canada



Please elaborate.

Specifically what formal training have you had in "aerospace technology"?

TomK



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
JFK --- an airline's AMM is NOT going to list every N-Number specfically!!!!



files.abovetopsecret.com...

You were saying ?

Mine lists 36 of them.

Edit to add - Specifically.

2nd edit to add - I certainly hope that you are not an airplane mechanic and do not know this.






[edit on 7-12-2009 by JFrickenK]

[edit on 7-12-2009 by JFrickenK]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 11:22 AM
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Those P4T guys can are willfully self-deluding.

This is trivially simple. These are the unequivocal facts.

1. Two competent, professional pilots were at the controls when the plane took off.

2. Between 8:51 & 8:54 AM EDT, the professional pilots were replaced.
From that point on, an incompetent, amateur pilot was at the controls.
Someone who could not properly control:
Vertical Acceleration
Roll Angle
Airspeed
Pitch Angle
Altitude
Heading

This is proven without question in the following chart of the FDR data from the NTSB.



yfrog.com...

3. The only way to get into the cockpit was thru the Flight Deck Door. Ergo, the door WAS opened.

4. The FDR does NOT record the door opening.

There are two possible interpretations.

A. The sensor circuit was broken. For 12 flights. This would require that Boeing's diagnostic program and AA's maintenance staff be incompetent. They are proven, by decades of success to not be incompetent, so this alternative is rejected.

And the ultimate, simple, trivial, obvious conclusion:

B. The sensor was never hooked up.
___

All of PfT's maintenance & circuit hand-waving is incompetent nonsense. Turbofan is not an aircraft mechanic. He is an auto mechanic. He has precisely zero time maintaining aircraft.

Rob Balsamo (R_Mackey) is not an aircraft mechanic either. And does not possess the honesty to provide straight answers to any questions.
___

This answer is trivial. Anyone mystified by any of it, or getting distracted by Cap'n Robby's circuit technobabble, is simply a sucker for P4T's snake oil.

At the end of the day, this circuit WILL turn out the way that I have been saying for 2+ weeks now: not connected. Tied to logical 0.

There is no other reasonable possibility.

Robby's BS notwithstanding.

TomK



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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thomk, with the exception of the graphic you posted your entire post is speculation on your part.

Regarding the graphic, Can you share the FDAU's serial number with us ?



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
For the record...there is no such thing as a B-757 "ER".


Then perhaps you would care top explain the heading on "767 doctor"s graphic...

This one : files.abovetopsecret.com...



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