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New FDR Decode

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posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by JFrickenK
 


Yeah, whatever. You are talking to three different people at a time.

Please quote the specific text so I can respond accordingly.

You're upset because I uploaded a picture of a 757 outline with a bunch
of doors on it?




posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by turbofan
Is it because you have not received your donation yet?



tino, how thick can you be?

I told you numerous times i already took care of your broken promise. And again. i dont even have the manual!

[edit on 4-12-2009 by R_Mackey]



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by JFrickenK
Actually Tino, that image was my screen grab of your upload to YOUR server in Singapore...

Which you then decided to distribute, again, on a public internet forum.

LOL



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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Texthere this i was bannd from infowars .com for post real freemason stuff freesite my a**



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by R_Mackey
 


Stay out of this Robbie, I'm not talking to you. I told JFK I would send
him some money before you blocked my access to your site. Now I cannot
donate.

I am trying to establish a private u2u with JFK. Please go to your inbox!

Jay, that would be great if you could post some pre-911 material. It will
get us a bit closer to the truth.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by turbofan
reply to post by JFrickenK
 


Yeah, whatever. You are talking to three different people at a time.

Please quote the specific text so I can respond accordingly.

You're upset because I uploaded a picture of a 757 outline with a bunch
of doors on it?



Tino, you have proven right in this thread you cannot be trusted with proprietary or confidential information when you dont get your way.

Whats next, you going to blackmail ATS mods if they dont delete your posts?

ughh.. i gotta pull myself away from this BS.

Tino, you're a joke.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by turbofan

Originally posted by JFrickenK
Remember, You asked.



That copy will be forwarded to your employer tommorrow.

Didn't see it ? Don't worry, you will.



[edit on 4-12-2009 by JFrickenK]


Was that in response to me? You're going to send a copy of the manual
to my employer tomorrow?


I'm lost...still not sure how I broke your trust as I have not forwarded
a copy of the manual you sent me? is it because i want nothing to do
with P4T? Is it because you have not received your donation yet?


Nope, Rob covered you... And no, he does not have a copy. Only you do.

It is because you posted propriatary information publicly when I trusted you not to.

So, have you read the cover page yet ?

Have you checked up on those export laws and how they pertain to National security ?

I didn't think so.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by turbofan

You're upset because I uploaded a picture of a 757 outline with a bunch
of doors on it?

No, he's upset that you have proven him a fraud, and quite easily in a matter of moments.

He had the manual, he claims he has been studying it for months, but it appears that he did not even bother to check it before trying to pass off the Forward Access Door as the Flight Deck Door.

He's either incompetent or deliberately deceptive. Either way... fraud.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by R_Mackey
I cant see 911Files post you replied to, but i will when i sign out.

Let me guess, he offered to host it for you? Didnt he have someone else host his BS?

Yep he did.

AAL77.COM Going Out Of Business

I checked Whois. Yep, listed under Farmer.

Man, that guy waffles more than an Eggo....lol


Yeah, Rob, we had to go offline for a few weeks due to hackers. But we fixed that. I now have my own server with full control and backups. In the event someone in your circle hits it again, we have two back-ups located outside the US which the domain can be pointed to while the local is restored.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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Wow...this is better than "Days of our Lives"
(pops popcorn)

If the FDR recorded the same condition for the cockpit door for all that flight time, and a dozen flights...isn't reasonable to assume that something was not connected? At sometime..somebody had to open the door.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by JFrickenK
 


Really? What did I post that you have not already posted? You had four
thumbmails on P4T.

You posted part of the EICAS conncetions here.

I posted a diagram of doors on a plane.

Is that what is getting you so hot under the collar?



[edit on 4-12-2009 by turbofan]



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by turbofan
reply to post by JFrickenK
 


Really? What did I post that you have not already posted? You had four
thumbmails on P4T.

You posted part of the EICAS conncetions here.

I posted a diagram of doors on a plane.

Is that was is getting you so hot under the collar?



I am done here, Have fun at work whenever you decide to go Tino.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by JFrickenK

Originally posted by turbofan
reply to post by JFrickenK
 


Really? What did I post that you have not already posted? You had four
thumbmails on P4T.

You posted part of the EICAS conncetions here.

I posted a diagram of doors on a plane.

Is that was is getting you so hot under the collar?



I am done here, Have fun at work whenever you decide to go Tino.

JFK,

Please don't go without retracting your claim that the Forward Access Door is the Flight Deck Door.

The schematic proved you wrong, we all know you're wrong, so brass up.

Edit to add - After all, "terminology is important."

[edit on 4-12-2009 by discombobulator]



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by JFrickenK
 


Ok, I'm really "scared". I guess it's fine for YOU to post thumbnails from the
manual, but not me?


I'll screen shot this passage and your thumbnails at P4T just in case my
boss asks why some stranger is bothering him about a "double edge sword."

I'm embarrassed to say I ever associated with either of you and your logic.
Kids I tell ya...



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 11:26 PM
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I want to respond to this post because there are some good points/questions here.




Originally posted by solequinox


Please correct me if I am wrong, but what you seem to be saying is that on the 757 aircraft that you have access to, there is no warning or indicator light through the EICAS display that corresponds to FDD?


Yes, that is exactly what I was saying. There is no warning in our fleet regarding the state of the flight deck door. Perhaps AA does, perhaps they don't. I'm saying ours don't have that feature.



In other words, might the EICAS send this data parameter to the FDAU even though there is no corresponding warning or indicator light on the EICAS display.


No, it's more likely is that in a fixed length data frame(EICAS "talks" os a digital bus with a protocal called ARINC 429, which is simalar to the FDR frames), a default 0 value is assingned. The frame data descriptors then try to interperet all the 0's as an actual data stream rather than a placeholder.




Furthermore, the FDD parameter was custom to the AA 77 data frame layout. If this is a custom data frame, we would not expect to find it on the 757 that you are experimenting with.


First of all, you can tell me that 757-3b is tailored specifically to AA, but I've been in the industry long enough to know that what you have here is a generic industry document. 757 refers to the DFL, -3 is the version number, which I'm guessing refers to a block of production line numbers, and B is the revision level. The DFL doc you posted many pages back affirms as much on pg 24.

I'm going to try to get more info on this, because I have to admit - this is a bit out of my area of experience and it is very important to get this right.

But I'd love to hear how all of AA's 757's, that were built before 757-3b came out in 1999, got modified to accommodate all the extra parameters overnight.

More likely? 757-3 most closely resembles AA's FDAU/FDR spec, so the NTSB chose to use it for their decode. Revision B was the latest revision level of the 757-3 FDL at the time of the investigation, and in fact, still is.

on edit: its even more simple than that. There is only 3 versions on the 757-3 DFL. and -3B is on its original revision, my mistake.



I am confused on what you mean by you searched all EICAS messages. Is this on a visual display on the aircraft itself (in the cockpit), or where you searching through something like log files where the parameters are recorded?


No, you cannot do it on the actual aircraft. I meant that we have a section in the manual which lists every message. I'll be posting the page with all the door warnings a bit later tonight or maybe tomorrow.



If the FDD parameter is custom for AA 77 then we would not expect to see it through the EICAS system that you were monitoring as it wasn't using this data frame layout, and I wouldn't expect every data parameter that is recorded by the FDR system to necessarily have a corresponding EICAS warning indicator.


Not sure what you mean here but all other(I'll assume that FLT DECK DOOR is indeed a door warning for a second) door warnings show up in the DFL, and on the same port. There are 12 door warning EICAS messages and each are independent parameters. Reference the 757-3 DFL pages 311-320.

BTW, thanks for posting that document.



[edit on 4-12-2009 by 767doctor]



[edit on 4-12-2009 by 767doctor]



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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If the FDD parameter is custom for AA 77 then we would not expect to see it through the EICAS system that you were monitoring as it wasn't using this data frame layout, and I wouldn't expect every data parameter that is recorded by the FDR system to necessarily have a corresponding EICAS warning indicator.


Not sure what you mean here but all other(I'll assume that FLT DECK DOOR is indeed a door warning for a second) door warnings show up in the DFL, and on the same port. There are 12 door warning EICAS messages and each are independent parameters. Reference the 757-3 DFL pages 311-320.


Some believe that because there is no connection to EICAS for FDD, that
the door circuit was wired directly to the FDAU. I don't know if that is
what is being implied here, but it seems that way?

If that's the case, the thought is incorrect. The Boeing DFL shows FDD
data bit assigned to word 251 through Port 41 of the FDAU. Port 41 is
connected to the EICAS.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by turbofan

Jay, that would be great if you could post some pre-911 material. It will
get us a bit closer to the truth.



I kinda fubar'ed this, but what I have will be good enough for the discussion. I wanted to get matching pre and post 9/11 door mod schematics, but somehow i managed to get a pre 9/11 schematic and a post 9/11 wiring diagram print. No one probably would have noticed, but there is a difference between a schematic and wiring diagram. Schematics provide more of a detailed overview of how a system works and usually has good illutrations and often goes "inside the box" Wiring diagram prints usually just show lots of boring lines, as you well know.

Oh well.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by 767doctor]



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by turbofan



If the FDD parameter is custom for AA 77 then we would not expect to see it through the EICAS system that you were monitoring as it wasn't using this data frame layout, and I wouldn't expect every data parameter that is recorded by the FDR system to necessarily have a corresponding EICAS warning indicator.


Not sure what you mean here but all other(I'll assume that FLT DECK DOOR is indeed a door warning for a second) door warnings show up in the DFL, and on the same port. There are 12 door warning EICAS messages and each are independent parameters. Reference the 757-3 DFL pages 311-320.


Some believe that because there is no connection to EICAS for FDD, that
the door circuit was wired directly to the FDAU. I don't know if that is
what is being implied here, but it seems that way?

If that's the case, the thought is incorrect. The Boeing DFL shows FDD
data bit assigned to word 251 through Port 41 of the FDAU. Port 41 is
connected to the EICAS.


Thanks Tino, exactly correct. The FDD parameter comes in on the same EICAS port as all the rest of the data according to the frame layout doc, as well as my own research. Good catch!



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 01:18 AM
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OK, can we end this notion that Data Frame Layout 757-3B is specifically tailored to AA's 757 fleet?

From the D226A101-3G doc from Warrens site, page 12 and 13:

The 757-3B DFL can actually be used for the 757-300 as well as the -200; AA has no 757-300's. There are only six....yes just six different DFL options to cover the vast number of 757 fleet configurations in the world. So yes, they are generic. Also note the description of discrete B118. If B118 is a "1", this indicates a Boeing Defined Data Frame; if B118 is a "0", then its a customer unique data frame. In both cases for 757-3B(pre and post 1997 wiring mod), B118 is a "1".



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by Macgyver1968
Wow...this is better than "Days of our Lives"
(pops popcorn)

If the FDR recorded the same condition for the cockpit door for all that flight time, and a dozen flights..


Please provide Flight numbers for each Flight you claim and passenger manifests and Flight Crew. Thanks.




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