And then of coarse there are those modern translations which are openly comprimising such as the Gender Inclusive (omits gender specific terms) and the Feminist bible translation which names Jesus judith.

(I don't actually know how the feminists translate Romans 5:12 which says "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:")

These "contradictions" mostly don't exist. They are based on invalid assumptions that people made, that aren't necessarily true. For example, God separated light and dark; then created the Sun. The light and dark that God created didn't necessarily include the Sun, so there's no contradiction. And so on.

There are plenty of contradictions in the Bible. But most of these are not among them.

Ok. Who was Jesus grandfather from his fathers side?

And is that the reason we are told in Timothy and Titus that we should avoid genealogies?

Originally posted by APOCOLYPSE DAWN

I am just one man that does alot of research and trust God to lead me down the right path.

Would that be the same path that the crusaders were lead down or maybe the Inquisitors? That didn't end too well.

This is always such a hard topic to brooch since religion is a heated debate, it is hard to find evidence or the lack there of and maintain an unbiased nature. Impossible even.

As an agnostic myself I do not profess to know the answers, I can only ration what I believe to be right and wrong about the bible. But even that is a null interpretations of the written word, for who here on earth is qualified enough to adequately interpret the bible and its meaning wrapped in parables wrapped in a conundrum?

No one! no scholar or priest, or even historian. Theres no record of how best to interpret the word and I believe the last 2 verse in the bible speak to damnation if... let me quote here

Revelations

22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to them, may God add to him the plagues which are written in this book.
22:19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, may God take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

With my simple mind I can easily understand this statement to mean. DO NOT INTERPRET MY WORD, TAKE IT AS IT WAS WRITTEN". But then how best to we ration the impossibility of some of these fables. We think of them as mere metaphors but ALAS, god has told us not to think of them as metaphors, do not interpret my meanings just read and believe them.

Is this not a fair and accurate account of the dilemma in reading and understanding the bible?

First of all, I appreciate you guys coming in and helping me prove the points and answer the questions asked. Thank you! but Like I told the others... if we are going to reference the Bible please do so in context and provide more than just 1 or 2 verses. I would appreciate that because it validates our arguments even further.

To meltdown: You want me to quote you 200+ lost books of thousands that were written at that time... lol your joking right! I dont have that much of a reach to pull that info out of my butt. However, like others have put it the modern bible was filtered and that is a known fact. I have talked with many historian and scholars on the subject and they all have the same consensus that there were thousands of books written at that time. Also if you would have finished my quote instead of taking it out of context (you missed the next sentence where I stated this was not about my beliefs but is known fact) you would have answered your own question.

ty

Originally posted by george_gaz

Originally posted by APOCOLYPSE DAWN

I am just one man that does alot of research and trust God to lead me down the right path.

Would that be the same path that the crusaders were lead down or maybe the Inquisitors? That didn't end too well.

Have you studied much about the crusaders? have you studied the teachings of Jesus Christ? those 2 are polar opposites! Christ taught us to love our neighbors as much as we inherently love our selves. While the crusaders raped and pillaged people for their own prosperity! The crusaders where even found by the church as heretics!!! and were condemned for their actions. Just because I say I am christian or I come in the name of God doesnt mean I actually do!!! think about that! Do you think God would want you to suicide bomb a preschool? I think not!

Do a little more research and you will find your answers Good question as alot of non christian bring that point up.

Originally posted by Jessicaviv

This is always such a hard topic to brooch since religion is a heated debate, it is hard to find evidence or the lack there of and maintain an unbiased nature. Impossible even.

As an agnostic myself I do not profess to know the answers, I can only ration what I believe to be right and wrong about the bible. But even that is a null interpretations of the written word, for who here on earth is qualified enough to adequately interpret the bible and its meaning wrapped in parables wrapped in a conundrum?

No one! no scholar or priest, or even historian. Theres no record of how best to interpret the word and I believe the last 2 verse in the bible speak to damnation if... let me quote here

Revelations

22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to them, may God add to him the plagues which are written in this book.
22:19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, may God take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

With my simple mind I can easily understand this statement to mean. DO NOT INTERPRET MY WORD, TAKE IT AS IT WAS WRITTEN". But then how best to we ration the impossibility of some of these fables. We think of them as mere metaphors but ALAS, god has told us not to think of them as metaphors, do not interpret my meanings just read and believe them.

Is this not a fair and accurate account of the dilemma in reading and understanding the bible?

Jessica,

Thank you for joining us on this discussion!

Have you ever heard of Exegesis? it is a process in which one uses to decypher a text or communication. The process has three steps (Observation, Interpretation, and Application) *note* there is only 1 interpretation and that is the authors interpretation.

Often people use the term well thats my interpretation... here is the fallacy in that statement. Its called Eisegesis and it refers to the reader or audience inputting their own meaning and beliefs into the communication which distorts the original meaning and thus leads to "your interpretation" and not the original interpretation.

Like I have pointed out in this discussion the final two verses you quoted are out of context and have lost their true interpretation and meaning because of that. its like coming into a conversation at the end not knowing what was said before you got there and sticking your foot in your mouth because you said what you thought the conversation was about but turns out you were way off in left field.

Please use discernment when reading the Bible it will help you along the way. If you come across a verse or group of verses that seem really HARD or DIFFICULT to understand then take a break and re look at the body of text by starting with your observations... this should clear up a majority of "Hard" scriptures. Remember if a complex verse seems to you that it contradicts another simple verse then I am willing to bet someone needs to do some more Observation before trying to make an interpretation.

Originally posted by chiron613
These "contradictions" mostly don't exist. They are based on invalid assumptions that people made, that aren't necessarily true. For example, God separated light and dark; then created the Sun. The light and dark that God created didn't necessarily include the Sun, so there's no contradiction. And so on.

There are plenty of contradictions in the Bible. But most of these are not among them.

Please if you have "REAL" contradictions please point them out!

I loathe weighing in on this but duty calls.

The whole crux of the matter concerning the Bible is faith. Either you believe or you do not. No amount of salesmanship will change a mind on either side of the fence.

Organized religion is an abject failure- yours, mine, theirs. That shouldn't be blamed on God. The human element is always the weakest link in the chain. The arguments both pro and con are threadbare after all these years and I don't know why any of us fall into the trap of argument. Either you believe or you don't.

As for myself, I've seen enough, experienced enough and researched enough to have come to the conclusion that there is a God. If your beliefs differ so be it. It's not my job to convince you or to defend the Bible. My job is to see that I measure up and to stay focused on that. That's what Jesus meant when he spoke of the splinters I look for in another person's eye while ignoring the board in my own.

If it turns out that I am wrong and I don't believe that I am, I can at least know that in the end I did as much good as I was able to do for my fellow man and go to my grave with only one regret- that I wasn't able to do more.

Heres anther fact to Nispy your Noodle:

The most wildly read version of the bible the King James version was edited tremendously from its original Geneva script, to reflect an episcopalian structure.Before that is was edited and revised a great many of times throughout history as far back as Constantine. But that is another Fallacy all in it's self.

Lets get back to King James AKA, the homosexual. I will not even site sources here because I'd rather you go find this out for yourself. King James was indeed a great lover of men, married with children yes, but he had 3 great male loves during his life;

Esme Stuart > Duke of Lennox (cousin to James)

Robert Carr > Scotsmen (feel at a festival and James came to his aid)

George Villiers > Bedchamber groom to Earl of Buckingham, James great love. James often addressed Buckingham as "Only sweet and dear child," "Sweetheart," and "Sweet child and wife," and signed himself in letters to George as "Thy dear dad and husband."

In 1617, James gave a daring address to the Privy Council, affirming his right to love men once and for all:

"I, James, am neither a god nor an angel, but a man, like any other. Therefore I act like a man and confess to loving those dear to me more than other men. You may be sure that I love the Earl of Buckingham more than anyone else, and more than you who are here assembled. I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect, for Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had John, and I have George."

Another interesting factoid here: Unlike other ancient wittings like hieroglyphs, seminarian tablets, the dead sea scrolls, epics of Gilgamesh, name your history.. No record of the original Hebrew script of the bible exist. Not one piece or shred of its infinite existence remains today.

On the book of Genesis, there is no contradiction. What it clearly states is that "In the beginning" that is, at the very start, God made the heavens and the Earth. So they were created. Next is a description of the planet Earth after the beinning when God made them, and it says, "And the Earth was without form (life forms) and void (barren), and darkness (thick cloud cover) was upon the face of the deep (abyss or water)..."

Then it goes on to say what God did. "And God said let there be light.." That is, let light shine upon the barren darkened water world called Earth. After this he creates plate tectonics and dry land rises up from the waters and waters gather into oceans and seas. Then God goes on to create life on the Earth and then man.

When it says that he made the stars also, it is an exclamation of the writer that they too were created by God.

On the 7th day, God did not take a day off, what He did was sanctify that day because He completed what He intended to do with planet Earth.

Originally posted by Jessicaviv
Heres anther fact to Nispy your Noodle:

The most wildly read version of the bible the King James version was edited tremendously from its original Geneva script, to reflect an episcopalian structure.Before that is was edited and revised a great many of times throughout history as far back as Constantine. But that is another Fallacy all in it's self.

Lets get back to King James AKA, the homosexual. I will not even site sources here because I'd rather you go find this out for yourself. King James was indeed a great lover of men, married with children yes, but he had 3 great male loves during his life;

Esme Stuart > Duke of Lennox (cousin to James)

Robert Carr > Scotsmen (feel at a festival and James came to his aid)

George Villiers > Bedchamber groom to Earl of Buckingham, James great love. James often addressed Buckingham as "Only sweet and dear child," "Sweetheart," and "Sweet child and wife," and signed himself in letters to George as "Thy dear dad and husband."

In 1617, James gave a daring address to the Privy Council, affirming his right to love men once and for all:

"I, James, am neither a god nor an angel, but a man, like any other. Therefore I act like a man and confess to loving those dear to me more than other men. You may be sure that I love the Earl of Buckingham more than anyone else, and more than you who are here assembled. I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect, for Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had John, and I have George."

Another interesting factoid here: Unlike other ancient wittings like hieroglyphs, seminarian tablets, the dead sea scrolls, epics of Gilgamesh, name your history.. No record of the original Hebrew script of the bible exist. Not one piece or shred of its infinite existence remains today.

The life of King James in respect to his sexuality has nothing to do with the translations that had been done for the bible. If you check with any true bible scholar ask them how many versions they use... I use 3-6 versions at any given point in time... WHY? so that I get a closer direct translation. do you know why people use KJV? its strictly because the KJV is the closest most accurate translation word for word. (not to be confused with meaning or interpretation) i.e. KJV has a closer translation for hebrew and greek the base words for scripture in regards to the English language that we speak and thus is the reason why it is most commonly used!

I could care less if King James was a pedophile or did beastiality it has nothing to do with the translations as he personally had no "personal influence on that process".

You do understand that WAR is the main reason we do not have many ancient texts... the Romans the Nazis the allies and many others have destroyed collections of ancient texts, manuscripts and collections or writings because they could and it was a strike against the conquered people they fought! The only saving grace the dead sea scrolls have are the fact that they were lost and sealed away for thousands of years! and guess what they coincide with what our modern day bible speaks of in a historical context.

22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to them, may God add to him the plagues which are written in this book.

22:19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, may God take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

22:20 He who testifies these things says, "Yes, I come quickly." Amen! Yes, come, Lord Jesus.

Thank you for posting more of the scripture.

Notice what the author John states in 22:18: "I testify" speaking to his own beliefs. The author clearly states the following passage not only as a warning to the audience but as a condemnation to those who seek to distort the message of God as it pertains to THIS book and IT's prophecies. To apply this mentality as what God said and to apply this to the Bible as a whole is a miss observation on your part. Im not attacking just stating the fact that there was a missed observation its common and we all do it!

I can go into more detail about EXEGESIS if you would like...