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Why I don't like Radical Christianity. ..

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posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:45 PM
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First I will mention that I don't think Radical Christianity is as great of a threat as Radical Islam, for the simple reason that Radical Islam is physically more of a threat (maybe I'll start another discussion on that). I'm not here to argue about Islam, however, as of now I will give my reasons why I don't like Radical Christianity.

I am a Christian. Radical Christians are giving all other Christians a bad name, because:

1. The world is billions of years old, at least. I believe in evolution, with God as the guiding hand creating the universe in an orderly fashion. Creationists to me are ridiculous. Look at the stars! You are looking millions of years back in time; isn't that proof enough? What about 60,000 year old cave paintings? How can the world be 6000 years old?

2. I don't think Jesus is the only way to heaven. I think good people go to heaven, and bad people go to hell (I also think some people linger on as ghosts). Could God be that cruel to send a good person to hell just because they don't believe in Jesus?

3. There is nothing wrong with gay people. I'm not sure if they should be allowed to get married, but that's a complicated topic. Marriage should be up to the church, not the state. Anyway, if a gay person is a good person, they should be able to get into heaven. That's all I'm saying.

4. I believe in many lesser gods & spirits, other supernatural beings, and outer-space aliens (who may be somehow related to humans). I don't worship them, but we have a friendship. Radical Christians would say I'm pagan, and am worshiping the devil if I make an offering to a lesser god / spirit / saint, or whatever.

5. I don't believe there is any one "anti-Christ" because it doesn't say so in the Bible anywhere. An anti-Christ is someone against Christianity, which means billions of people today are the anti-Christ. I also don't believe in the end of the world. It might happen, but who cares? Do we have a choice?

Finally, I will conclude by saying that Christianity is potentially a good religion. Jesus had a lot of great things to say, and good morals to live by. I'm sure thousands of years from now, even if Christianity ceases to exist, that Jesus will be quoted and read the way people quote & read Aristotle today, or some other philosopher-type person.

Thanks for your time.




posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by bettermakings
 



2. I don't think Jesus is the only way to heaven. I think good people go to heaven, and bad people go to hell (I also think some people linger on as ghosts). Could God be that cruel to send a good person to hell just because they don't believe in Jesus?

What do you do with this then. John 14.6:

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Or is that too radical? Do we just disregard it? What is the purpose of Christ's sacrifice if all good people go to heaven? Just being good and getting to heaven completely flies in the face of Ephesians 2.8-9:

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.



There is nothing wrong with gay people. I'm not sure if they should be allowed to get married, but that's a complicated topic. Marriage should be up to the church, not the state. Anyway, if a gay person is a good person, they should be able to get into heaven. That's all I'm saying.

I agree that gays aren't bad people. I bet 99% of Christians would agree with you. But, per Jesus' words, just being good isn't good enough to get to heaven. You have to go by him, regardless of sexual orientation.


I believe in many lesser gods & spirits, other supernatural beings, and outer-space aliens (who may be somehow related to humans). I don't worship them, but we have a friendship. Radical Christians would say I'm pagan, and am worshiping the devil if I make an offering to a lesser god / spirit / saint, or whatever.

I agree that there are supernatural beings, many Christians do. I don't know if calling them gods is a good thing but that's your choice. I would say that it's kinda weird that you'd be making an offering to anything, as a Christian, since Christ is the final offering. What's the point?


5. I don't believe there is any one "anti-Christ" because it doesn't say so in the Bible anywhere. An anti-Christ is someone against Christianity, which means billions of people today are the anti-Christ. I also don't believe in the end of the world. It might happen, but who cares? Do we have a choice?

Antichrist is just one of the names of the one who is to come. It also happens that Antichrist is probably the worst one that could've been chosen, but that's another issue.

Read Revelation and you'll see that there is one that is "the Beast from the sea". Paul speaks of the Lawless one in 2 Thessalonians. Micah speaks of "the Assyrian who will come into our land". These are all names of the one that is commonly referred to as the Antichrist today.

That's your choice too to not believe that the Bible foretells the end of the world. Just don't think that some Christians are "radical" because they do believe in such a thing. Just make sure you're on the right side in the event it does come true.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by bettermakings
 


Umm buddy your opening yourself up there.... Christianity as a whole is "radical" Jesus says to (in a nut shell) to get to heaven you have to go through him. So in what you stated I would say your not a Christian, Just a Christian in name only... I am not one, not yet, I am reading the bible and studying ancient texts I am just not sold on it...

Also are you catholic? Because Catholics are the only "Christians" who follow what you are saying.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by bettermakings
 



Rev 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth."

OT praying you get off the fence...life will teach you it HURTS there....



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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Well OP, glad you clarified what you don't believe in since after reading your list, it pretty much contradicts your claim about being a Christian. Maybe this is that liberal Christian theology we hear about where you can pick some pretty passages out of the bible that "speak" to you and ignore the main content and message.

God is quite clear, you are either for him or against him. What is all this about lesser gods (note to OP, read the 10 commandments, I think number one about having no other gods). Or the idea that "No man comes unto the father except through me" seems have a footnote in your version that says "Except if you want to try some other means like chanting or navel gazing."

What you are calling a radical Christian is what most Americans would call a Christian. The other stuff -- gay is good, other religions are true too -- and whatever else you dream up is the secular humanist attempt to usurp Christianity with a false man made religion that they can call "Christian" to muddy the waters.



[edit on 21-10-2009 by superrat]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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No one comes to the Father except through me.


So Jesus is a bouncer at a snooty night club? Well, he can kiss my a%$



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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Guess what, I'm a Christian and I don't like it either. Same with any other radical religion.

No excuse to not consider it, as the true faith is the only hope for mankind.

Edit to add you are not a born again Christian and lost like those who have not accepted Jesus as savior, as you live according to your own rules.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by skepticantiseptic]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:56 PM
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Are you saying that you are not an atheist by saying you are Christian? I feel like you are gettitng negative feedback by not being clear about that.
I don't fully understand the Bible, so I cannot put my understanding of the Bible as right and yours as wrong. I still believe in the OT ten commandments yet some tell me you are not to believe the OT anymore.
Who is right and who is wrong?



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by bettermakings
 


You state "I am a Christian" and then go on to say you don't believe Jesus is the only way to heaven. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal(age abiding) life in Christ Jesus our Lord"... notice it does not say the wages are hell, but death. Jesus died to pay the wages. Those who reject him will be purified and suffer "the second" death (Not affliction, but chasening) that will be a spiritual death obviously. The bible says "it is once appointed unto men to die and then face judgement" ... why would anyone be "tormented" in the prescence of the lamb (Jesus) if not to show them something(spiritual torment) so that they can no longer be ignorant? They could certainly choose to still deny Christ as lord,but at what cost at that point.

Jesus said spiritual things through parables...he did not describe physical realities to portray other physical realities. Go back read the bible with spiritual discernment and it begins to make sense.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by reasonable
 


That's your choice to reject Jesus' words. I just think it's funny when people say that they're Christian and then go on to reject what Jesus taught/said.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to Octotom:

"No one comes to the Father except through me." - Jesus

Well, I think people can follow the ways of Jesus without knowing him.

Gandhi wasn't exposed much to Christianity (except the British "Christians"), but he followed the ways of Jesus without knowing it.

There are probably isolated tribes who have never heard of Jesus, but they follow the good morals that Jesus taught. They are getting to the Father (heaven) through Jesus (the good morals Jesus taught). . . whether they know it or not.

The book of "Romans" is an interesting place in the Bible describing that it is better to be a good pagan, as opposed to a bad Christian. . . also, the story of the Good Samaritan, and many other examples.



reply to poedxsoldiervet:

In addition to the above reply, you mentioned Catholic (which is also very similar to the Eastern-Orthodox churches), and they/we are usually the less Radical Christians, generally-speaking. . . They/we are also older than the Bible itself, and all Christian churches are tangents of Catholic & Orthodox Churches.

Christianity definition (Merriam-Webster): "the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies" . . . . so Catholics ARE "Christian".




Thanks for commenting, even if you disagree.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by reasonable
 


That's your choice to reject Jesus' words. I just think it's funny when people say that they're Christian and then go on to reject what Jesus taught/said.


I think it's funny when people take the Bible, a human document written by many humans, then edited, changed, and twisted by many other humans to serve human purposes, and call it the ineffable word of God. The history of Christianity is full of evidence that points to one fact...today's Bible is not the word of God, it's what men want you think is the word of God.

What's not funny is when people who hear 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' in church on Sunday morning decide to sit on their front lawn holding a sign that says 'God Hates Fags' on Sunday afternoon.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by bettermakings
 



Well, I think people can follow the ways of Jesus without knowing him.

Of course. That's not following Jesus though.


Gandhi wasn't exposed much to Christianity (except the British "Christians"), but he followed the ways of Jesus without knowing it. / There are probably isolated tribes who have never heard of Jesus, but they follow the good morals that Jesus taught. They are getting to the Father (heaven) through Jesus (the good morals Jesus taught). . . whether they know it or not.

Yes, I agree that tribes do follow the good morals and I know that there are tribes that do practice much of what we'd call "good morals". Having "good morals" doesn't make you a Christian nor does it mean that you're following Christ. If anything, the universal acceptance of basic things that are right and wrong shows a common creator.

That doesn't mean though that they're going to heaven though. The Bible clearly teaches that one has to accept Christ's substitutionary sacrifice for their sin. Being good alone is not enough. Christ is the passover lamb that was slain for the sins of the world.

Ephesians 2.8-9:

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Isaiah 64.6:

We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.



The book of "Romans" is an interesting place in the Bible describing that it is better to be a good pagan, as opposed to a bad Christian

Where do you see that in Romans? The book of Romans is about salvation which is only found in Christ's person and work.

also, the story of the Good Samaritan, and many other examples.

With the story of the Good Samaritan, Jesus was teaching that kindness needs to be freely available to all no matter what and, more impoartantly, fulfiling the spirit of the Law is as important as the letter of the Law. No where does Jesus say that good works can take his place.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by ImplausibleDeniability
......What's not funny is when people who hear 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' in church on Sunday morning decide to sit on their front lawn holding a sign that says 'God Hates Fags' on Sunday afternoon.



JC never acted that way, friend...

see: www.youtube.com...

OT prayin for you!



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by bettermakings
First I will mention that I don't think Radical Christianity is as great of a threat as Radical Islam, for the simple reason that Radical Islam is physically more of a threat (maybe I'll start another discussion on that). I'm not here to argue about Islam, however, as of now I will give my reasons why I don't like Radical Christianity.


I am in full agreement here, even though a lot of what could be called "Radical Christians" do belong to Patriot Groups that could very well become violent...Radical Muslims are a great deal more dangerous.


I am a Christian. Radical Christians are giving all other Christians a bad name, because:

1. The world is billions of years old, at least. I believe in evolution, with God as the guiding hand creating the universe in an orderly fashion. Creationists to me are ridiculous. Look at the stars! You are looking millions of years back in time; isn't that proof enough? What about 60,000 year old cave paintings? How can the world be 6000 years old?


Well, I am not a Christian, but I may be called a Wiccan, and this is how I think and know too. To cling blindly to words written so long ago by the Church in an effort to control and brainwash a people is plain ignorant. The ancients knew of these things, and anyone who is intelligent knows it too. I have to laugh when a good meaning Christian tries to tell me the world is only 6,000 years old, and that dinosaur bones were placed there by God to test your faith.


2. I don't think Jesus is the only way to heaven. I think good people go to heaven, and bad people go to hell (I also think some people linger on as ghosts). Could God be that cruel to send a good person to hell just because they don't believe in Jesus?


Me too. Anyway, it is common knowledge that there was never a man with the name "Jesus Christ" who lived in the ancient Middle East, that is an English name, not an Arabic one.
On the Christian Heaven, I do not wish to go there, having seen it in a session of astral travel, it looked pretty boring to me. There are many heavens, and some hells too, all created by us, people, using thought forms. When are people going to get it that they are the creators, and not some out there God they have never seen? When a person "dies," to use a human word, that person has choices to make. They can in fact stay here, but I cannot figure out why, I would not like it not being seen or heard. And no one gets "sent to Hell," that is just something the Church made up. You get to choose where you will go, only truly evil people go to the place of torment, and to a lessor degree, ministers who lie to their congregations.


3. There is nothing wrong with gay people. I'm not sure if they should be allowed to get married, but that's a complicated topic. Marriage should be up to the church, not the state. Anyway, if a gay person is a good person, they should be able to get into heaven. That's all I'm saying.


Again i agree, I have gay friends, and they are just like you and me in most respects. Like you i have mixed feeling about gays being able to marry, but then I am against marriage too, for it is nothing but as contract with the State. Want a contract? then make one, but leave the state out of your business.


4. I believe in many lesser gods & spirits, other supernatural beings, and outer-space aliens (who may be somehow related to humans). I don't worship them, but we have a friendship. Radical Christians would say I'm pagan, and am worshiping the devil if I make an offering to a lesser god / spirit / saint, or whatever.


Couldn't have said it better myself. The Devil is made up too, and even if Christians have created a Devil, he is theirs, not mine. One day the Christians, Muslims, and some others will regret what they have created for themselves. I believe most of what you call lessor gods are in fact extraterrestrials who were taken as gods, and went along with it. I cannot sit here and say I would not have done the same, given the circumstances.


5. I don't believe there is any one "anti-Christ" because it doesn't say so in the Bible anywhere. An anti-Christ is someone against Christianity, which means billions of people today are the anti-Christ. I also don't believe in the end of the world. It might happen, but who cares? Do we have a choice?


Me either. I have actually been called that before, and I am not the anti-christ, but I am anti-christian, and anti any other book/organized religion that seeks to control a people by fear and lies, and half truths. Ever notice the only people that get possessed by demons are the devout? Ever see a pagan say he/she killed because the Goddess told them to?


Finally, I will conclude by saying that Christianity is potentially a good religion. Jesus had a lot of great things to say, and good morals to live by. I'm sure thousands of years from now, even if Christianity ceases to exist, that Jesus will be quoted and read the way people quote & read Aristotle today, or some other philosopher-type person.

Thanks for your time.


Agreed. Everyone needs something to believe in, and we humans are hard wired for religion, no doubt put there by the Annunanki when they created these containers for us to live in. I haven't read through the thread yet, but I would bet it gets a lot of Bible quotes from those who have not a mind to think, or a mouth to speak on their own.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by ImplausibleDeniability
 



I think it's funny when people take the Bible, a human document written by many humans, then edited, changed, and twisted by many other humans to serve human purposes, and call it the ineffable word of God.

You're aware that there is little variance among the biblical manuscripts, right? The variances for the most part are in not so important places and are usually spelling errors or regional spelling differences. Knowing that, it is silly to say that the biblical base texts have been altered and edited, considering that there are no manuscripts that vary in any significant way to even show that there was intentional "twisting and editing".

I agree that there have been some translations of the Bible, such as the New World Translation, that have been translated with an agenda. But, this is a translation, it is not an original language manuscript.


What's not funny is when people who hear 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' in church on Sunday morning decide to sit on their front lawn holding a sign that says 'God Hates Fags' on Sunday afternoon.

I agree that that is sad and hypocritical. That is why I don't do things like that nor do I condone actions like that.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by octotom

You're aware that there is little variance among the biblical manuscripts, right? The variances for the most part are in not so important places and are usually spelling errors or regional spelling differences. Knowing that, it is silly to say that the biblical base texts have been altered and edited, considering that there are no manuscripts that vary in any significant way to even show that there was intentional "twisting and editing".


I'm talking about editing and translation throughout history. The very fact that there is little variance among the gospels is because of the editing process!

There was an event in 325 called the Council of Nicea...it is a FASCINATING read if you have time: en.wikipedia.org...

In a nutshell, they 'standardized' the official books of the Bible and discarded religious writings that didn't support the new Church. Writings like the Gospel of Thomas (en.wikipedia.org...), the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, and many others...that were at the time considered by many people to record the true words of Jesus.

I am not saying they were right, I'm not saying they were wrong. But what I am saying is that during this process much of what people believed to be Christianity was made 'heretical' at the decision of a group of men. Not God, but men. For me this throws the authority of today's Bible into question...it opens up the opportunity for interpretation and questioning.

I find the whole history of the early Christian Church to be incredibly fascinating...I love this stuff.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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I think the basic idea of try to be a good person etc is a good thing to try and stick to. But isnt that the basis of most religions? And in fact why would you even need a religion to follow that. It just makes sense not to be a total arse towards everyone/everything.

As for the radical christians. I do get a fair amount of amusement out of them, because lets face it they rarely if ever make any sort of sense. Always reminds me of how you'd expect a toddler who's eaten one too many sweets & is bouncing off the walls to act, in terms of the random quoting of bible verses & overuse of capital letters.
But then again I have a bit of respect for them (after the laughter subsides) because at least they're upholding what they believe in. Lots of it isnt acceptable in todays society, but they have the balls to not let that get in the way of their beliefs.
Ive always found it a bit strange that the vast majority of people pick and choose which bits of their religion to follow. Ive never been and probably never will be religious, but if God or whoever else you worship has set down a list of guidelines, then why do supposed believers feel that its essential to follow some parts of it but not all?



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by Bluebelle
But then again I have a bit of respect for them (after the laughter subsides) because at least they're upholding what they believe in. Lots of it isnt acceptable in todays society, but they have the balls to not let that get in the way of their beliefs.


I would argue that a lot of Radical Christians do not uphold what they believe in...they allow themselves to be defined by hatred.

I hate gays. I hate Jews. I hate Muslims. I hate.

Few people ever truly live up to the teachings of Christ. Radical Christians least of all.

I mean really...how can you radically preach tolerance and love?

And the larger question...why do we still need a spirit in the sky to tells us to be nice to each other?????



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by reasonable

No one comes to the Father except through me.


So Jesus is a bouncer at a snooty night club? Well, he can kiss my a%$


Yeah, you will be bending over....

Romans 14:11

OT being reasonable!




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