I don't mind when people use Religion to reinforce their daily lives.
However, when Religion is used to force someone else's ideal's onto someone else, that's where I draw the line.
I don't care if you Believe in God, hate Gay Marriages or try to ban stem cell research, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just don't shove it down everyone's throats.

What do I believe?
The Bible is a book created by a bunch of aristocrats to enforce a certain way of living.

Was Jesus real?
I believe so, not all powerfull as it was stated in the bible, but the "Aristocrats" fabricated his powers to make him seem like a Superhero.

Do I believe in God?
I do. I now beleive that he can't do everything at once and has human traits where he can be wrong in situations.

Do I believe in Adam and Eve?
Nope, evolution all the way, but there was a DNA plan for use during our evolution, created by God.

Can Religion be a good thing?
I go to Church, but not very often. Not as much as my wife, but I do see that Religion can bring out the good in people. Love thy Neighbour, do unto others as they would have done unto yourself... that's all good points.
So yes, religion is a good thing when it's not influencing a negative agenda by hysterical religious nutcases who would do close to anything to please God, including hurting others.

Fin.

Originally posted by network dude
I am a person who believes in God. I even talk to him fro time to time. I don't care for organized religion at all. Mainly because it seems to be driven more by greed and quest for power than it is supposed to be. And I don't care for someone trying to convert anyone against their will. If missionaries were sent to far off lands to help people without pushing their agenda, it would seem more genuine (IMHO).

I too have talked to this "GOD", although my perceptions and experiences lead me to call it "my higher self".

I can understand why a person who truly believe God is the only way and they care enough to attempt to spread this word around. I understand the agenda there. To save a lost soul or to stop someone from eternal damnation. Right or wrong, I understand it.

What I don't understand is the motive for an atheist to try to convert people to their way of thinking. What is to be gained by this? By all means they have just as much right to do this as someone would to ring your doorbell and attempt to tell you all about God. But what will they gain other than a little company? I would appreciate any and all responses. I am not trying to convert any atheists, or condemn any Christians, just trying to understand this.

What is to be gained by this you ask?
Well nothing other than a conversation, rarely is it defined as "converting" BTW what is your definitions of "convert" and "thinking" ?
You see my perceptions and definitions are clearly different than yours and right from the start we have an issue that comes from YOUR point of view. You are ASSUMING I am trying to convert you with some agenda. This is a conditioning you received from religion, because they always have an agenda. I just want to have a logical conversation(argument), and believe me religion is filled with lots of holes.

Understand yet?

But what will they gain other than a little company?
To each his own, some are gaining knowledge and others are stroking their egos. I mean don't you want to make sure you have as much information on the subject as possible? How can you qualify as being unbiased if you only know your perspective?


Difficult but I hope this helps, and BTW I like you believe in a higher consciousness, but not in religion.

I am an agnostic, used to be catholic.

I have gotten into debates with christians on there views because:

1.) Because they use their belief system to justify some pretty stupid and backwards (imo) things (i.e. anti-gay marriage, anti- stem cell research, anti - abortion etc.)

2.) The way they push their beliefs on others, with many not actually understanding fully their supposed beliefs. I am a philosopher and use reason, most arguments that christians use are flawed (though some are quite strong)

3.) So many christians do not act in the way jesus would want them to (i.e. judgemental, not accepting)

I could go on for ages if you want, but the main thing is NO it is not a reassurance to myself, it is more of a take your beliefs elsewhere thing.

Originally posted by nuffsaid420
How can you qualify as being unbiased if you only know your perspective?

Possibly the most profound statement ever. I would like to think I try to learn from others. In my perfect world, I never have a biased opinion on anything. Reality is a bit different.

I agree with most of the posters who just don't want to be preached to. If I want to hear preaching, I will go to church. Agreed. but as I stated earlier, there is at least one group who seems to have an agenda to publicize their agenda of atheism. I was and am curious to know if that is a more public belief, or just an isolated incident.

Originally posted by network dude
What I don't understand is the motive for an atheist to try to convert people to their way of thinking.

I don't understand it either. And I'm an atheist. I never try to convince believers that they should be atheists. I think it reeks of religion when they do that. When they have meetings and pamphlets and an agenda, it looks not that different than religion to me.

Secondly, I don't understand why religious people do it either. I know... they say it's because they care and want others to go to heaven, etc. But I don't believe it. If it's harder to get into heaven than for a camel to get through the eye of a needle, why would Christians and other religions try to bring more people in?

As I think about it, I think atheists want to be more accepted. Anyone who is brave enough to turn away from religion and God or to never take it up in the first place is pretty much looked down upon here (in the US). They're called heretics, godless, immoral, etc. So, maybe they just want to be treated equally?

I've probally posted in every religion based thread I could since joining, and this one is by far my favorite, seems like from both sides there is more actually discussion rather than force feeding beliefs

Originally posted by wayno

Is it impossible for you to consider that an atheist might, out of compassion for a fellow human, want to "save" that fellow human from having a precious lifetime wasted because of false beliefs stemming from a ruthless and unscrupulous indoctrination?

not at all, in fact that is the kind of answer I was looking for. Do atheists even care what others think, or do they just not want to be bothered by bible thumpers?

That could be one reason. I am sure there are many more.

There is an assumption that atheism is somehow morbid and depressing. That is surely incorrect. If it isn't about absolutely reveling in the preciousness, beauty, joy and mystery of this thing called life; then I don't know what it is.

I am sure it's not dismal and depressing. I am sure an atheist would be able to see the beauty of nature and be perfectly fine with it just being beautiful and not bringing God up at all. It is just so hard to get a true idea of what atheists think without them being on the defensive because some pro religious person attempted to make them feel threatened. You would get a completely different point of view when backed into a corner.

A person believing in the Judeo/Christian/Muslim God, could go through an entire lifetime, and never experience these joys; focusing instead on punishment, rituals and obedience to dogma.

[edit on 10/21/2009 by wayno]

fair enough, but that same person could go through life focusing on the positive ideas God gave them. We aren't all wackos trying to demonize you into believing you are going to hell. We all seem to have different points of view. heck, I heard there was a few people who didn't like UNC football. (local humor)

wow.

silly.

the reason us atheists try to tell you you're wrong is because we don't want you accepting this life and all its horribleness because afterwards some big man in the sky will save you with eternal sunshine.

life sucks here, religion is a tool to make you feel better bout your crappy life here since you think you got some special place to go after you die, so you'll be content with this world and not try to change the status quo.

not to mention the horrible things done in the name of all religions, especially christianity and islam.

do you think dogs and cats get an afterlife?? fi you dont, what then do you think makes humans so special??? come on!!

and all the money they make...i once read a thing about how a fourth of pastors dont even believe in god. statistics dont really matter but...i highly doubt thats very far from the truth.

we try to tell you "you're wrong" because we don't want you slavin away your life to a non existent white bearded man in the sky. many christians i've met were extremely hypocritical to, i know a couple who home schooled their daughter she has no idea about ANYTHING in life. when she's out on her own, she's gonna get ripped apart.she's completely oblivious to the world, and will never fully develop as a person.

and ya, i used to be a christian, till i was about 15. thats when i grew the hell up and realized the extreme scientific improbabilities not to mention the horrible things done in the name of my religion,despite those being the opposite of jesus word. plus the whole, you know, slavery with the promise of a second eternal life.

thats why we tell you. its not a personal attack. we weren't "hurt" by religion. we don't feel the need to push our "agenda" through your childrens minds.

we just feel the need to save you from yourselves thinkin this life isn't all there is.

this is it. 1 time man. don't f-in waste it!!!! you're incredibly lucky to get one life. don't needa make up stories to convince you it won't end.