In Christianity, Why is Satan Evil, and God Good? What is Evil?

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Then there is no true evil as evil can be justified by someone outside of those being the victim of a perceived evil. There would be no rhyme or reason for man to persecute man for acts of what each individual man considers as evil because man is unable to comprehend the forces of events that lead to the perceived view of evil being committed.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

If God, any God or group of Gods is the creator of everything, then everything man considered to be evil would be a direct causation of the act of creation. If the God of the bible is not the one true God and his defined meaning of evil is the defined meaning of evil as man defines it, then what is true evil? What does the real God say is true evil when we have no written word from the true God? How are we to be sure that his version of Evil is not the same as how we define evil? Perhaps our view of evil is skewed from a speciest angle. We don't consider it evil for an animal to kill another animal and yet us being an animal killing each other is somehow evil? Animals kill over territory, they don't peacefully coexist raping resources from each other.

Well this is where the path becomes a lifetime journey, of discerning what is of flesh and of spirit. It takes years literally, because it takes many experiences to learn from. All the answers are in all things. Everything is a cycle of energy. The word Evil has defiantly been tainted to be something as bad and something that we dont need. BUT----we do need the darker side, so we can see a difference in it and the lighter side. We need the night time to be thankful for the sun light. We need sorrow to fully embrace how great happiness is. We need the selfish ones to show us how only selfless will help us become better as a whole unit. We need death to be thankful for birth...so we embrace our time here as precious and not wasted.

We are given feelings for a reason. Guilt, regret, sadness, happiness....all feelings lead us. Alot of people are so desensitized that they cant tap into guilt or regret when they act in ways of flesh. What makes you feel good? Does helping someone make you feel good? Does holding a baby make precious feelings in you arise? What does hating someone make you feel like? Do you hold any hope at all for those you may hate? It takes years, mabey even many lifetimes....to discern these things.

Im not a believer in God created out of nothing. I believe God emanates, one thing flows into another, and then another something flows from that former something. Emanation has a order, a cycle, a pattern. The law of reaping what we sow is a cycle, an order, a pattern. Everything in nature that you can see shows us this....a cycle, a order, a pattern. What is evil....if we need it to learn what is really 'good'? They are both needed for the purpose of this sphere and the souls dwelling in the flesh. We want to look at 'evil' as bad....but we learn from it...so how bad is it really? So its just easier for me to place these two differences in other words besides 'good and evil'. When I use the words 'flesh and spirit' it all starts to make sense.

Im in agreement that the image in the Bible is not displaying what the nature of Spirit is in totality. But I learn so much from it, by learning carnal mans ways as well as ways that are of the Spirit.

You brought up animals killing eachother as mabey being a event that some would call 'evil'. I think this is a bad example to use...for we as humans are above that. We are able to problem solve, to scrutinize all possiblities of a problem and solution, we are able to use logic and feelings, and form a reaction with both. If someone tried to kill me or my children and I act in a surviving mode and I kill them in defence....is that evil? That is a better senerio to discuss. Even then, its going to depend on how much that person is living for the life of flesh (this life here and now) or the life of spirit.

I would like to bring up the choice that the man Jesus made when his life was at stake. He walked a path against many. Many did not like what he had to say. In the end, he turned the other cheek and ask for those who know not what they do to be forgiven. This is a great example of living for the spirit and not for the flesh. If Jesus would of fought, possibly harming another or even killing another in defense for his life of flesh....he would of only been harming his own karma, he would of been sowing seeds of the carnal way...not of spirit. To find this path and the reasons one would walk such a path can take a long time and many experiences.

Just personal thoughts
LV

reply to post by sirnex


Absolutely. The understanding or view of good and evil is always biased. If this site had banned me, like they could have done the other day, this would be evil to me, but for a great many others on this site it would be a blessing, since they would have one less goat to reveal what's going on inbetween the lines of the book of books they cherish so much, what's going on behind the scenes of this world and what allows these PTB to pulling religions' strings to turn people into mindless sheep who would do anything just to avoid the curses of that book. Just so sad that the scare crows will all fall, since they are gullible and straight out what the old Greeks would refer to as "useful idiots".

The only truth in knowledge of good and evil, is that there is no science defining what's good and what's evil. Only dogma.

[edit on 28/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply to post by LeoVirgo

If Jesus would of fought, possibly harming another or even killing another in defense for his life of flesh....he would of only been harming his own karma, he would of been sowing seeds of the carnal way...not of spirit. To find this path and the reasons one would walk such a path can take a long time and many experiences.

If we're going to use Jesus as an example of how to live a good spiritual life, then let's make note of the supposed second coming. Jesus is not done according to the Messianic Prophecies, if he is the biblical Messiah to begin with, which I personally doubt considering many factors. His second coming has him come as a warring king to finish off the remaining prophecies. Which aspect of Jesus is the correct aspect? Or can both aspects be equally correct if applied properly? Why have evil if it is only to teach good when we can just have good without knowledge of evil? Evil should serve more purpose than to teach what shouldn't exist to begin with.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Something that I read that I found interesting about reaping what you sow has to do with Jews and Hitler.

A Rabbi preached that the Jews finding themselves to be the 'chosen ones' was a way of carnal nature, being so that they would have to reap what they sowed at some point in time. The Rabbi went on to teach that the Jews reaped what they sowed through Hitler, who likewise, thought that God has a 'chosen people'. How ironic is it that the ones who called themselves chosen was killed by another who thought of himself as chosen? I find it ironic. If truly we reap what we sow....mabey that reaping for the ones that thought they were 'chosen' was also done so in a way to teach the whole world of this mistake of thought. Mabey this is showing us over a long period of time that one will reap what they sow....and mabey this was done so in a way to really teach the whole world and not just one race of people. Is it not more so ironic that a Rabbi was the one that taught this?

Just thoughts, you were talking about Hitler and the Jews and Gods ways.....so I thought this might interest you.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Indeed, what goes up must come down, and the higher you get, the deeper you'll fall. As Ikaros flew high up into the heavens on his wax wings, the Sun got hotter, and in turn melted his wings, leaving him plumeting towards Earth and death. As he was falling, he might think: "The Sun is evil for it destroyed my wings, and the Earth is evil, for it will kill me. How I wish there was no Sun or Earth..." and smack, no more Sun and Earth in his mind.....

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

If Jesus would of fought, possibly harming another or even killing another in defense for his life of flesh....he would of only been harming his own karma, he would of been sowing seeds of the carnal way...not of spirit. To find this path and the reasons one would walk such a path can take a long time and many experiences.

If we're going to use Jesus as an example of how to live a good spiritual life, then let's make note of the supposed second coming. Jesus is not done according to the Messianic Prophecies, if he is the biblical Messiah to begin with, which I personally doubt considering many factors. His second coming has him come as a warring king to finish off the remaining prophecies. Which aspect of Jesus is the correct aspect? Or can both aspects be equally correct if applied properly? Why have evil if it is only to teach good when we can just have good without knowledge of evil? Evil should serve more purpose than to teach what shouldn't exist to begin with.

Well the second coming talks about Jesus returning with 'force'. So this tells me right here...not to take this as much concern. The Holy Spirit does not work through force....a book cant teach us this, its a nature we come to know. When another man stands against what the mainstream wants to here....there will be another killing because we as a whole are still living in carnal ways of flesh. So all I see happening is someone being brave enough and that has understanding to step up and show the Elites their wrongs...if this man is living for righteous ways, he wont bring force and he will end up offering his life for it all. There will be others who walk in righteous ways teaching things many wont want to hear because they wont understand. There will be another blood shed. People are ready for it...they await the next one to kill.

I just dont get caught up in prophecies because I dont think God left us answers like that. We are to find our way...its the purpose of seeking. If God left the answers as a guide book to be followed, what purpose is there to seek Thee? I dont worry about God 'ending' the world or Jesus coming to force a new world order with a special land. But there are men that come to help us find this world order ourselves...without force. All in due time, it will come full circle.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Perhaps the sign and symbol of a snake eating its own tail is telling us of this circle of all things, good and bad are really a oneness, both serving the same purpose. Not sure why the Oroboros (sp not sure) popped in my mind after reading what you wrote, but that is what I thought of.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

If truly we reap what we sow....mabey that reaping for the ones that thought they were 'chosen' was also done so in a way to teach the whole world of this mistake of thought.

Is it not more so ironic that a Rabbi was the one that taught this?

Just thoughts, you were talking about Hitler and the Jews and Gods ways.....so I thought this might interest you.

You want a definition of true evil....here you go.

Justifying genocide as 'maybe they deserved it, how ironic'.

WHAT. THE. HELL. IS. WRONG. WITH. YOU.

reply to post by ImplausibleDeniability


I am not justifying it....and neither will I justify a people telling the world they are chosen and that they have the right to kill for the chosen land God gave them. Why do you think there is still war today over this land.

These arent my words, they come from a Rabbi....a jew.

Both beliefs have brought death...so I support neither. But I do believe in reaping what you sow. I gave the most extreme example possible, I realize it is a touchy thought.

Are you saying that a entire nation should of been killed for a land they thought God gave them? Like I said, people are still dying to this day for this thought. Both are bad and both offer us things to learn.

We were discussing the Spiritual Law of 'reaping what we sow'. The OT is the book that taught us this Law...and the NT also talks of it. To really consider this as the way the world works....is scary yes.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by LeoVirgo]

One more edit to add...for this thought is such a sensitive matter. Jesus did not teach us to act in ways of an eye for an eye. Allow the law of cycles to do their works, but our works should be in righteous ways. Jesus taught that turning the other cheek, forgiving those that know not what they do, loving your neighbors, offering yourself to others, and to know that the cycle of life will do the reaping what you sow in its own right. While here though, we should live a righteous way, more for spirit then of flesh. Both ways I discussed above are ways of flesh, neither of them being ways of spirit. We should learn from both and support neither. We must learn from the past and our histories.



[edit on 28-10-2009 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Being a Norwegian, my initial referance to the serpent biting his tail would be the explanationary image of the Midgard Serpent who circles the Earth (the old Norsemen were sailors, so they knew the Earth was globular long before Copernicus explained the Earth as a globe circling the spherical Sun (But after the dude with the squares of hypotenus and the kateta).

When Norwegian kids are really happy for something, they scream in the Holy Spirit, saying "Tob-Ra" or "Så bra". Tob is Hebrew for Good, while Ra would be Evil. Like Platon and Aristioteles taught a "golden middle-way", life is not good until good and evil has reached equilibrium, where the essence is completeness, rather than beer sex and rock'n'roll all the time. Resting is better than paparazzi....

[edit on 28/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
When Norwegian kids are really happy for something, they scream in the Holy Spirit, saying "Tob-Ra" or "Så bra". Tob is Hebrew for Good, while Ra would be Evil. Like Platon and Aristioteles taught a "golden middle-way", life is not good until good and evil has reached equilibrium, where the essence is completeness, rather than beer sex and rock'n'roll all the time. Resting is better than paparazzia....

That is very interesting!

reply to post by LeoVirgo


BTW "Så bra!" means "How great!"

Another interesting thing with Norwegian and biblical language and litterature, is how our word for "Word" is "Ord" (phon.: "O:r"). In Hebrew Owr (also phon.: "O:r") means "Light".

[edit on 28/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Honestly, I don't understand what you are trying to explain nor your concept of evil. I don't see anything as evil myself, nor anything as good.

reply to post by sirnex


Do you see love and hate as = ?

If we all wake tomorrow hating eachother....what would the world be like?

If we all wake tomorrow loving eachother....what would the world be like?

Mabey its only in the eyes of the beholder that one should trump the other or that one would have a higher purpose then the other.

I dont see evil ways as bad...but as ways that are expected to happen and occur in bodies of flesh. Its just the result of this experience, these bodies, this world. Its like a cause and effect. Take your soul and divide it into a billion pieces. Each piece now thinks its something separate from the rest of itself, not knowing it really is a part of all the other pieces. Immediately pride and jealousy will likely occur due to this event of separation. Most see bad things as evil and think that its a mistake we are experiencing this world due to a fall of Eve ect ect. I see it as its all meant to be exactly as it is....and I see attributes like pride, jealously, lust, greed, and hate being the effect of the cause of spirit embodied in the flesh.

Just offering another perspective.

Good and Evil is polarisation and dualism. Like ripples in a lake when you throw a stone into it, or like we need both a positive and a negative pole to make current, Good and Evil are mutally dependent forces or concepts, which make reality into a sensible and understandable concept of totality. That's probably why the electric dragon needed to be grounded....

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Do you see love and hate as = ?

Yes, they are both emotional responses from external stimuli.

If we all wake tomorrow hating eachother....what would the world be like?

If we all wake tomorrow loving eachother....what would the world be like?

Neither scenario would ever realistically happen, so it's a moot argument over discovering what is evil or not.

Mabey its only in the eyes of the beholder that one should trump the other or that one would have a higher purpose then the other.

I want to take this time to conduct an experiment with you, if your willing to proceed.

Is killing another human life, evil?

I dont see evil ways as bad...but as ways that are expected to happen and occur in bodies of flesh. Its just the result of this experience, these bodies, this world. Its like a cause and effect. Take your soul and divide it into a billion pieces. Each piece now thinks its something separate from the rest of itself, not knowing it really is a part of all the other pieces. Immediately pride and jealousy will likely occur due to this event of separation. Most see bad things as evil and think that its a mistake we are experiencing this world due to a fall of Eve ect ect. I see it as its all meant to be exactly as it is....and I see attributes like pride, jealously, lust, greed, and hate being the effect of the cause of spirit embodied in the flesh.

Personally, I see no evidence for a spirit and no evidence for true innate good or evil in existence. What I see are people conducting themselves as emotional beings and acting upon those emotions from the external stimuli that stimulate those emotional responses.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Do you not think for some reason we are to strive to be good people that care for eachother and help eachother? Is there not a higher purpose in discerning between ways?

Even though I see both dark and light serving the same purpose in the bigger picture...does the bigger picture still have both in it? If so, then why strive to be 'loving', 'forgiving', ect....?

Just conversating....not debating.

If there is a heaven...or higher dimension....does it also have the yin and yang? Or would it be of just one polarity?

reply to post by sirnex


Sure Im willing....Im always game.

I believe killing is a lower nature...so if we describe lower natures as evil, then yes, killing is wrong. The paradox is we have to experience this in many ways to see that it is wrong.

Killing is a way of flesh reaction....not a way of a spiritual reaction.

Very few are on this Earth that are strong enough to hold true to this way of life though.