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In Christianity, Why is Satan Evil, and God Good? What is Evil?

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posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


God tell Adam that he will die instantly or within a day if he eats from the tree. Hence God's warning, which was probably given with a good intent, is infact a lie. And don't try to be smart, this is one of the profound secrets of Genesis. God was infact the father of lies, while the Serpent (not Satan, but Lilith, Adam's first wife), told the truth. Can you please point out to me one place in the Bible where Satan is caught lying? I can't find it. On the other hand I can find a bunch of examples of evil commands like how God commands genocide here and there. How he tempts Abraham to kill his beloved son in his honor etc etc. Ask Jesju if it was OK to die because God obviously according to Christian theology, needed for Jesju to die, probably to step in for Isaak. Good and Evil comes from God, not merely good.

If Satan is your enemy, you're on the wrong side. He works for God, you know, he doesnot have his own agenda, trying to be God. No, humans call him god (devil means god, from Sanskrit Deva, Latin Deus, Not Diablos, as is commonly claimed), Lucifer (Morningstar) etc. Sweettalking Christians have turned Satan into their God. They fear Satan more than they fear God.

If you plan on going to Heaven, you must first manage to stand Satan's tests. It's the way it works. Simple as that.

[edit on 23/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]




posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


Oh, and I am not finished with your first lie concerning God.
In addition to the above, God does not lie:

Titus 1:2 (New International Reader's Version) states:

Faith and understanding rest on the hope of eternal life. Before time began, God promised to give that life. And he does not lie.

God does not contradict Himself. His Word is sure and reliable:

2 Peter 1:19 (Today's New International Version)

We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Man, as he is led by Satan..... You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies..........."You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. He endlessly contradicts God's reliably true Word........When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him....just like you do to me sirnex, and other defenders of the Faith which you hate so much...... ( until Satan is permanently stopped..... see (john 8:44)(Genesis 3:4; Acts 13:45) NIV


The Judgment of Satan: When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

see (Revelation 20:7-10) NIV



God's Word reveals that there are two deaths:
the first and the second (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8).
We are all subject to the first death, but it is the second death we are to avoid (Matthew 10:28).

So God did not lie to Adam and Eve when He said they would die from eating the fruit thereof.

You are playing dumb with scripture in the hope you will make God out to be a liar.

And I demonstrated to you (several times) that Evolution is Satan's ultimate conspiracy and fraud.....It's a lie that is designed to defraud mankind of the redemption God has instituted and offers us.

But you won't listen.

I also demonstrated that Satan, through the evolution faith, caused world leaders such as Hitler, Stalin, and Marx to justify the murders of millions with the natural selection and survival of the fittest doctrines. More people died in 150 years following Darwin that have died in all previous wars combined.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


Let's be honest with ourselves JM, if that were true then there would have been no reason for Lucifer to word what he said in the manner that he said, talking of a physical death. You can beat around the bush and word play as much as you please, but when read in context it does appear to state a physical death as a cause for eaten of the fruit.

Again, this is not the only example of God lying throughout the bible and you appear to be fixated on only one example for the moment with an intent to show that your God was not a liar despite the evidence at hand *the bible* showing that he is indeed a liar.

The fact is, nothing did actually die that day, no matter how much you twist or word play it. God punished us for listening to reason, but that is not equal to the death of anything. Nor does the punishment fit the crime at hand. God created a naive people without knowledge of right and wrong but with free will. Not knowing that listening to reason would have landed them in such a harsh punishment and listening to reason when Lucifer showed that God is a lair, it was only within reason that they went against God's word. Just as you find it within reason to go against God and Jesus' word in how you conduct yourself on this board.

Again I must point out the difference between an observation and an insult. If one were to insult you, one would call you a name without just cause. If one were to point out a style of argument that you seem to hold as a valid logical style, such as being a hypocrite to your own argument, then that is not inherently an insult no matter how much you wish to take offense to it. As we've certainly gone over more than once, how you present yourself is how you wish to be received. In other words, if you wish to contradict yourself continuously, you will justly be called a hypocrite, if you do not wish to be called out on your style of argument, I would suggest changing the style or just stop posting as your style of argument really hurts our brains when we're trying to have an intelligent discussion.

I also feel the need to point out your erroneous assertion that you keep winning here. This isn't a dual, there is no 'thing' to win. It's a debate, an argument in which we're both discussing our own views and opinions. Some of us apply a higher thought process, logic and reason in our arguments whereas people such as yourself apply little to no thought and rely utterly as if it was a total dependence on the usage of old terminology and word plays and triumphantly pounding your chest as if you finally got 'us'. In all reality *observation* this just looks childish and pathetic */observation*

Now, my word of advice would be, think before you type. I mean really think of what is on your mind and ask yourself if your argument is contradictory or open to attack in any form. If you feel it's not, then by all means type it out, but before you post please at least double check it after it's been written, you may have missed something.

Your other fault allowing your emotional responses dilute your ability to reason and apply logic in your arguments. In such a case as this one, your utter dislike of myself for pointing out your faults lead you to use word play as a valid argument choice rather than trying to actually disprove what was stated. The fact is, a separation of two things from each other is not equal to a death of something. To put it bluntly, our souls haven't died nor have our physical bodies and in no way is the phrase remotely similar to a meaning close to death penalty. Your emotional diatribe towards me clouded your judgment in being able to actually notice this very simple point.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


About Satan and the beasts being tortured, do you know what the exact meaning of the word Basanizo translated torture is? It means to test gold with Touchstone, a black silica based mineral used to test the purity of gold.

So a more correct translation of Revelation, where this word comes to surface, will be that while in Hell, Satan and the beasts will be tested and tried for their knowledge. In other words, God throws them into Hell to see if they are the real maccoy so to speak. Perhaps he does it to see if Satan's inventions will make it in upto 7000 degrees Kelvin. We sure need such technology in the future, and Satan is all about technology.

Like I just said in another thread, nothing's as it seems. The bible is a riddle. Even the wisest of men can't comprehend it fully, but you do ey?



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


Satan's biggest lies are those which cause people to turn from God, cause one to doubt God and his message concerning the fall and plan for redemption, and/or distracts people from their relationship with God.

I suggest you Read C.S. Lewis....The Screwtape Letters...covers many of the tactics used by Satan to distract believers and keep people from seeing the truth.

There are many ways to tell a lie. The best lies are those that are fed to people along with a little bit of truth here and there.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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Like I said, if Satan is in your life, and if he is your enemy, you are not of God, and certainly have not learned anything from what Jesju taught us. Satan is all about testing you and me, mostly like God will eventually test Satan himself, which he will do in Hell, in knowledge and technology. Not faith or love. Anyone can have faith or love, but in order to be admitted into the heavens, you must prove yourself worthy. Many will scream Lord Lord and call uppon their Saviour, and try all kinds of other magic tricks to enter, without as much as Jesju lifting an eye lid. Satan always give you a challenge. How you solve this riddle will "do the talk" for your remaining life.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by John Matrix
 


About Satan and the beasts being tortured, do you know what the exact meaning of the word Basanizo translated torture is? It means to test gold with Touchstone, a black silica based mineral used to test the purity of gold.

So a more correct translation of Revelation, where this word comes to surface, will be that while in Hell, Satan and the beasts will be tested and tried for their knowledge. In other words, God throws them into Hell to see if they are the real maccoy so to speak. Perhaps he does it to see if Satan's inventions will make it in upto 7000 degrees Kelvin. We sure need such technology in the future, and Satan is all about technology.

Like I just said in another thread, nothing's as it seems. The bible is a riddle. Even the wisest of men can't comprehend it fully, but you do ey?


I cannot say I comprehend it fully. God does not expect us to instantaniously comprehend the Bible. But I do think I comprehend it much better than you do.

In fact, a 4 year old understands the simplicity of the Gospel message....yet the same confounds those who trust the wisdom of this world....people such as yourself.


So you see....you can have so many degrees that they call you Dr.Fahrenheit.....but it's all just foolishness to His simplest thought.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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I see that some know more then others. Or should i say some trust their own source over someone Else's source.
Why do you all believe that someone else is always more right then your self?

Does every one of you need to be though the value of morality. If morality have to though. Then who's moral standard should we fallow?
Who has the knowledge to give us a moral standard.
Only You set your own moral standards. And you do that by making a choice. Morality of good and bad is a choice.

We have given morality names. Good and Bad. But that's not all we have done. we have given good and bad owners as well. God is good and Satan is bad. Have we done that so we can give some one else the blame for our good or bad choices?

Are we possessed by God if we make a good choices. And possessed by the devil if we make a evil choice. No we make good and bad choices based on our respect for morality.

Well the day that we stop with all this crap we will see the truth. That the world we see around us is created by our own virtue. Not by God Not by Satan. But by our moral values and moral code.











[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by John Matrix
 


Let's be honest with ourselves JM, if that were true then there would have been no reason for Lucifer to word what he said in the manner that he said, talking of a physical death. You can beat around the bush and word play as much as you please, but when read in context it does appear to state a physical death as a cause for eaten of the fruit.


Adam and Eve did begin to die that day. Adam lived for some 930 years....talk about a slow death!!

Death entered into the world through Adamic sin.....cells began to die that day.....and His spiritual state did suffer a death that very day.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
In fact, a 4 year old understands the simplicity of the Gospel message....yet the same confounds those who trust the wisdom of this world....people such as yourself.


If you can put forward the fouryearold who is able to explain why Jesju had to die for his or her sins, then be my guest. Not only do you lie and explain advanced linguistic mechanisms with football without as much as opening a book or analysing a sentance, claiming the Holy Spirit.... Well, if I hadn't felt sorry for you I might start calling you stuff, like you do, here in public and in my u2u inbox. "Jesus" would be very proud of you....



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Adam and Eve did begin to die that day. Adam lived for some 930 years....talk about a slow death!!

Death entered into the world through Adamic sin.....cells began to die that day.....and His spiritual state did suffer a death that very day.


Ok, so life itself is a deadly disease in your mind? And you talk about Satan being cunning and slippery.... If death entered the world with Adam eating from the Tree, then what do you make of all the homo sapiens sapiens that died tens if not hundreds of thousands years before Adam? And the animals. Did they also eat from the Tree since they all die? And Satan, why is he alive still? Your theological Kreuderwelsch logics make no sense, and you call yourself intelligent? The point is that God lied when he said to Adam that he would die the day he ate from the tree. With your logics that would mean that since one day is a thousand years to God, Adam lived to be 930 years old? So is Adam God?



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by John Matrix
In fact, a 4 year old understands the simplicity of the Gospel message....yet the same confounds those who trust the wisdom of this world....people such as yourself.


If you can put forward the fouryearold who is able to explain why Jesju had to die for his or her sins, then be my guest. Not only do you lie and explain advanced linguistic mechanisms with football without as much as opening a book or analysing a sentance, claiming the Holy Spirit.... Well, if I hadn't felt sorry for you I might start calling you stuff, like you do, here in public and in my u2u inbox. "Jesus" would be very proud of you....


I never attacked you personally so smarten up pal!!


Thanks, and Jesus would probably ridicule you as much as the Sadducees and Parasites that he called "wolves in sheep's clothing".

Jesus isn't the wimp you think he is. He was the gentle, kind , compassionate, humble, merciful, loving, Lamb of God....but those who challenged him certainly did not perceive that in Him did they?

Jesju? Someone you made up in your imagination?

From the Writings of the Great Mystic William Law (1686-1781):

[Reg-42] When Man disobeyed God, and took the Fruit of the Tree into his Body, which brought the Nature and Power of the Stars and Elements into it; this is not to be considered, as that single Act of Eating, but it signifies as much as if he had said; By eating this Fruit, I desire to come within the Influences of the Stars and Elements, and to be made sensible, and feeling of the Good and Evil that is in them.

[Reg-43] Therefore, small as the Action seems to be at the first View, and of a very limited Nature, it was his refusing to be that, which God created him to be; it was his express, open, voluntary Act and Deed, by which he chose to fall into this outward World, in the Manner we now are in it.

[Reg-44] Therefore it was not the mere eating of a Fruit, that brought Adam's Misery upon him, but it was the eating a Fruit, as his chosen Means of entering into this World.

[Reg-45] God himself was not angry at all, or at a small Act of eating a Fruit, and so in Anger turned Man out of Paradise, into a World cursed for that Sin. But Man freely and voluntarily chose, against the Will, and Command of God, to be in the World in its cursed State, unblessed by Paradise; For he chose to enter into a Sensibility and Feeling of its Good and Evil, which is directly choosing to be, where Paradise is not; for nothing that is in Paradise, can be touched, or hurt by anything of the outward World. Therefore the first State of Man was a State of such Glory, and heavenly Prerogatives, as I have above related; and his Fall, was a Fall into, or under the Power of this outward World.

[Reg-46] (16.) If it be also further asked, What sufficient Proof there is, first, that the Likeness and Image of God, in which Man was created, signified thus much, that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, each brought forth their own Nature in him, and in him saw themselves in a creaturely manner? And then, secondly, that by the first Sin, this Birth of the Son of God, and Proceeding of the Holy Ghost was extinguished and lost in the Soul of Man? It may be answered, that these great Truths stand attested by undeniable Evidence of Scripture.

[Reg-47] First, from the Means and Manner of our Redemption. For there is nothing that can so fully, and justly show us the true Nature of our Fall, as the Nature and Manner of our Redemption. And it seems highly suitable to the Wisdom of God to let the first, be but in part discovered, till the latter showed and proved itself in an undeniable Manner. And this, no doubt, is the Reason why Moses is suffered to write no more of the Nature of the Fall of Man, or what it implied, than he has done. Because the Time for a plain Insight into that Matter, was not then come, and it was to lie as much a Secret, as to the true Nature of it, as the Nature and Manner of our Redemption then did; which was then only obscurely declared, by an Enmity between the Seed of the Woman, and the Seed of the Serpent.

[Reg-48] But when the Seed of the Woman showed itself to be the Son of God, the Second Person of the holy Trinity, united to our human Nature; then the Nature of our Fall, and what we fell from, and what was the Seed of the Serpent in us, manifested themselves in the same Degree of Certainty. And therefore it is very unreasonable to hold, that we ought to say no more of our first State before the Fall, of its Dignity and Perfection, and what was lost by the Fall, than what is openly and expressly declared by Moses. For as it seemed Good to the Divine Wisdom to conceal the Mystery of our Redemption and Salvation for many Ages, and to let Moses only discover it under a Declaration of a Serpent-destroyer; so there was a Fitness, and even Necessity, that the Nature and Degree of our Fall should be kept in the same Degree of Secrecy, then only to be discovered with a sufficient Degree of Plainness and Certainty, when our Redemption and Salvation came plainly to be laid open. The Religion of the Jews was suited to that State of Things and Times in which they lived; neither the Mysteries of the Creation, nor Redemption, were then discovered; Things past, and Things to come, had then only their Figures, Shadows, and Types.


The writings of William (above) are From this page:William Law
Learn More about William Law here




[edit on 23/10/09 by John Matrix]



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


Oh how JM likes to see what he wants. Read further in the book of Genesis, from the original lie of God to the punishment of man and woman, never is it mentioned that man nor woman would live eternally in physical form. In fact, God banishes man and woman from the garden of Eden lest he also he fruit from the tree of life thus having immortality and knowledge of good and evil. Your argument is devoid of any logic as your just cherry picking thing's out of context. We can also quote God as stating that man is mortal but never do we see God stating that man was once immortal. In fact, it isn't even until after the flood does God put a lower limit on how long man and woman would live.

You really do need to take my advice.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:49 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by John Matrix
 


Oh how JM likes to see what he wants. Read further in the book of Genesis, from the original lie of God to the punishment of man and woman, never is it mentioned that man nor woman would live eternally in physical form. In fact, God banishes man and woman from the garden of Eden lest he also he fruit from the tree of life thus having immortality and knowledge of good and evil. Your argument is devoid of any logic as your just cherry picking thing's out of context. We can also quote God as stating that man is mortal but never do we see God stating that man was once immortal. In fact, it isn't even until after the flood does God put a lower limit on how long man and woman would live.

You really do need to take my advice.


I believe Adam and Eve were created in a perfect state and placed in an eternal paradise.....not a physical world that can be seen with our human eyes....but a spiritual realm or hyper-dimension.

It was not God who punished Adam and Eve....they punished themselves when they decided to leave their firstly created state to experience this physical realm.....they were warned not to....but did not yield. So on that day they lost their eternal created state. They separate themselves from the Divine nature of God.

The plan of redemption....the mystery of the ages....is to bring that Divine nature back to mankind by making us partakers in the Divine nature through a spiritual rebirth. God made this possible through Christ.....but man has free will.......man can accept or reject redemption and the gift of eternal life.

The Divine nature cannot be separated from the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.....but it was separated from those created in the image of them.

In choosing to be separated, mankind has been opened to the Spirit of this World, and cut off from the Divine nature ever since, except for those who accept the free Gift and are born again to once again experience the Divine nature of God.

The Divine nature can be summarized as: Humility, Meekness, Patience, and Love.

The nature of fallen man, is subject to the Spirit of this World, which can be summarized as: covetousness, envy, pride, and wrath. Covetousness because it is a desire proceeding from want. Envy, because it is a desire to despise those who have what we don't have(and want). Pride, because it is a desire to self arrogate. And when any one or more of these three elements of self are contradicted, a fourth element of anger(wrath) is born.

The heart of man is deceitful above all else and continually seeks out evil.
Evil is anything that contradicts the Divine nature, and which distracts one from partaking in the Divine nature.

We are here for the purpose of being redeemed and prepared for eternal life in Heaven.

It is for certain that at the end of one's life, either a devil or an angel will emerge.

Now I ask you.....what is wrong with Humility, Meekness, Patience, and Love? For these are the very Christ of God which we are to follow, seek after, imitate, and place out faith in. These become the conduit in us through which the Spirit of God works, and through which we grow in spiritual knowledge, wisdom, and by which we are enlightened and ascend.

Any thought of enlightenment or ascension that does not come by way of the rebirth of the Divine nature of God in one's soul, is a delusion. Learn all that there is to learn of this physical world, universe, science, math, or language, and you still wander in the desert until a birth of the Divine is brought forth in your soul.

Anything, that is contrary to the Divine nature, and which distracts mankind from it.....is EVIL.

I hope this is now made plain enough for you to comprehend.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic
 


You have no idea what a Christian is....nor are you qualified to tell me that I am not conducting myself in a Christian manner.

BTW: What is said in a U2U is understood by most on ATS to be private communication.

I strongly suggest to anyone that they never respond to Neo Christian Mystic by way of U2U as he shows a blatant disregard for private communications.

If you must stoop to such a low down despicable method of arguing a point, then I must conclude that you know damned well you are defeated.

And by the way, there are young teenagers on this site....and I hope they see how foolish your arguments are. Where did you get the idea this is an all adult only forum site?



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 



I believe Adam and Eve were created in a perfect state and placed in an eternal paradise.....not a physical world that can be seen with our human eyes....but a spiritual realm or hyper-dimension.


Well, what you believe goes against scripture. The Garden of Eden is described as a physical place with physical entities and even describes the physical location with landmarks on our physical Earth. Your beliefs do not coincide with the word of God. You are essentially admitting that you do not fully one-hundred percent believe what God has to say on the matter in his own book.


It was not God who punished Adam and Eve....they punished themselves when they decided to leave their firstly created state to experience this physical realm.....they were warned not to....but did not yield. So on that day they lost their eternal created state. They separate themselves from the Divine nature of God.


Again, this goes against scripture. Yes, they were warned not to but nor were they given the ability to discern deception from truth. Only after eating of the fruit were they able to know what what they had done was wrong.


The plan of redemption....the mystery of the ages....is to bring that Divine nature back to mankind by making us partakers in the Divine nature through a spiritual rebirth. God made this possible through Christ.....but man has free will.......man can accept or reject redemption and the gift of eternal life.


Again another point that goes against scripture. John, may I ask you something... Do you speak for God or is he allowed to speak for himself?


The Divine nature cannot be separated from the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.....but it was separated from those created in the image of them.


Please back up this statement with scriptural evidence.


Now I ask you.....what is wrong with Humility, Meekness, Patience, and Love? For these are the very Christ of God which we are to follow, seek after, imitate, and place out faith in. These become the conduit in us through which the Spirit of God works, and through which we grow in spiritual knowledge, wisdom, and by which we are enlightened and ascend.


Actually, you should be asking yourself that very question, for it is you who fails to show any of those qualities in which you claim to uphold so highly. You lack understanding of not only what you preach, but also of your own self. Yet, you decide to show pride and arrogance when others point out this flaw of your own doing. You lack any real patience and humility in any sense of the word as you are so quick to automatically demand that those who argue against you are inherently wrong regardless of how much evidence is put before you.


Anything, that is contrary to the Divine nature, and which distracts mankind from it.....is EVIL.


Then Jesus is evil, as he detracts one from God's original message and his failure of being the real Messiah as prophesied in the Old Testament. An act of following a false prophet lands you on God's bad side and yet Christians practice that Jesus is either God or as holy as God and worthy of worship an act hat breaks a commandment of God's. Christians themselves know so little of their God as they are to focused on the teachings of a man instead. You show so much of this yourself, but you demand that you don't despite proclaiming the greatness of a man at the same time.

God was never to be replaced by the Messiah nor was the Messiah to usher in a new religion in order to bring the worship of himself to full circle. If you even bothered to read what God had to say, you would understand this and denounce Christianity for the evil it is and for the wrongs it has committed just to become the most dominate faith system. You are so far removed from the God you claim to be close to but your pride and arrogance does not even allow you to see that. You should be ashamed of yourself and feel pity for yourself. Humility and humbleness are not your attributes however as you uphold pride and arrogance as traits worthy of gaining entrance to heaven.

[EDIT TO ADD]

I forgot to mention that you couldn't even bring yourself to accept the scripture of God when confronted with it. Instead you are still attempting to latch onto your pride in thinking you are right here despite even God himself being against you on this one. Are you above God JM?





[edit on 23-10-2009 by sirnex]



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 



If you must stoop to such a low down despicable method of arguing a point, then I must conclude that you know damned well you are defeated.


And yet you still show the good old JM pride, utterly devoid of humility and humbleness.

John, did he not say you insulted him and did you not deny it? Regardless of bringing light of a private matter on a public forum, he did indeed call you out on your actions. Yet without that U2U being posted for everyone to see still, you feel as if though you can vengefully attack back and claim victory. There were witnesses JM, you are the one who lost there.

You claimed you did not do something that you in fact did do. Personally I believe the U2U should have stayed up only to show how low our friend JM is capable of stooping himself and how much pride and arrogance he can show when the evidence is no longer visible for everyone to see. JM, you truly show no knowledge in what Jesus had taught you. Why do you continuously proclaim his greatness and yet fail to heed his word with every post? Again I have to ask, are you above God?



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex
Well, what you believe goes against scripture. The Garden of Eden is described as a physical place with physical entities and even describes the physical location with landmarks on our physical Earth. Your beliefs do not coincide with the word of God. You are essentially admitting that you do not fully one-hundred percent believe what God has to say on the matter in his own book.


The garden of Eden still exists. Adam and Eve left it...remember?
We can't see the garden because we are seeing with physical eyes.
The garden is where it has always been.



John, may I ask you something... Do you speak for God or is he allowed to speak for himself?


One who speaks for Satan and denies the word of truth asks the one who accepts it? God has already spoken. His revelations are found in scripture.

God cannot be separated from himself. That man has been separated from the Divine nature is what the entire plan of redemption is about.
What I said is self evident throughout the entire Bible.



Actually, you should be asking yourself that very question, for it is you who fails to show any of those qualities in which you claim to uphold so highly. You lack understanding of not only what you preach, but also of your own self. Yet, you decide to show pride and arrogance when others point out this flaw of your own doing. You lack any real patience and humility in any sense of the word as you are so quick to automatically demand that those who argue against you are inherently wrong regardless of how much evidence is put before you.


That's quite a judgement for only having chatted on a forum with me.
It is an act of Humility to accept God.
It is an act of Patience that I suffer your unjust insults, ridicule, and condemnation.
It is an act of Meekness that I even read your posts to see if you have anything worthy of learning in them.

Don't confuse Love with hypocritical sentimentality.
Humility, Meekness and Patience are acts of Love.
All these elements of the Divine nature are the workings and expressions of Love.



Then Jesus is evil,


2000 years of scholarship stands in stark contrast to your position.


Please back up what you say from scripture....

I'm aware of some 150 old testament profecies that were fulfilled by Jesus's birth, life, teachings, death, and resurrection. Those prophetic scriptural proofs demonstrate that you are promulgating unbiblical lies.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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Like I said, if Satan is in your life, and if he is your enemy, you are not of God, and certainly have not learned anything from what Jesju taught us.


This part is not true. Satan interferes more with the lives of people who are trying to live as Jesus taught. This world, right now, is controlled by Satan. The “beast” is the system Satan uses to maintain that control. “Whom Christ has freed” is and will be persecuted until Christ regains the throne.



1. Revelation 2:24
But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Mathew 13:24
24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this.



“Blessed are you when MEN persecute you…”


In the above reference, it is people doing the persecution, NOT God!


And I demonstrated to you (several times) that Evolution is Satan's ultimate conspiracy and fraud.....It's a lie that is designed to defraud mankind of the redemption God has instituted and offers us.


I agree with this. I also believe that there are several components to this, such as DNA (which the devil’s people need); and the lie of the missing link (which refers to DNA), artificial insemination (to create a hybrid), and creating a child and or a creature from a test tube.

This world is a lie. We are raised on lies governed by those who are themselves the fraud, taken and mislead like a lamb to the slaughter. At the slaughter, God rescues those that are truly His. Truth and love never die they rise again.

It is an easy thing to love those that love you (and this world loves its own) but, it is a hard task to love those who have hurt you, which includes not just emotional abuse or hurt feelings, but, we are to love those, who have physically tortured us our lifetime and or for years. In order to do this God intervenes.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by Siren]



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