It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

In Christianity, Why is Satan Evil, and God Good? What is Evil?

page: 10
20
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 06:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by Neo-Dark
Don't claim doing something "evil" to do something "good" is ok. "The lesser of two evils is still evil."


Well, Machiavelli would beg to differ. You should really read "the Prince" by Machiavelli.

en.wikipedia.org...

The theories expressed in The Prince describe methods that an aspiring prince can use to acquire the throne, or an existing prince can use to maintain his reign. According to Machiavelli, the greatest moral good is a virtuous and stable state, and actions to protect the country are therefore justified even if they are cruel.




posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 06:49 AM
link   
reply to post by atlasastro
 

The main problem I find...is just because God is God...he can do whatever he pleases...I just have a problem with that...no one entity should have unquestionable power over anything and everything...and be free from all judgment...it's really hard to explain...but I just don't think that's right...it's like me having an ant farm...and just because I'm the almighty creator, with an intelligence those ants could never begin to understand...doesn't mean I can do anything I like and treat them like crap...it may be a simple analogy...but I just think it's "wrong"...big deal...he's the all mighty, all knowing, unquestionable overlord of everything...so freakin what...that does NOT make him free from all checks and balances. Every being in existence, no matter who or what they are...will get what they have coming to them...

EDIT: And I don't care about perspectives...we have rules and laws in this world because we know some things are wrong full stop...maybe since there really is no good or bad...it's all just perspective...we should just strip the world of all laws and rules? Why would God give rules in the first place? "Do not unto others as you would not want done unto you". God did unto others as he would not want done unto him. Just because he is special enough to be the ultimate overlord of everything gives him no right...no right at all...

[edit on 22/10/09 by CHA0S]



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 06:57 AM
link   

Lamentations 3:38 "Does not God command both good and evil?"

Or like it is written in the NLT:
La 3:38 "Is it not the Most High who helps one and harms another?"

The concept of good and evil is always biased and subjective. What is a blessing for one, is a curse for the other....
Exactly. So the application of absolutes in relation to God are absurd. People have inspired a dichotomy from siding with antagonists within a story. What is even more ridiculous is the intentional bias between the application of literal and anecdotal interpretations of events in order to present a argument, when the events the OP uses are in some cases not real and did not happen.


Numbers 22:22 "But God was furious, and sent Satan in the shape of the Angel of Jahveh. Bileam rode his donkey together with his two servants."

God sends Satan to stop Bileam from cursing Israel....

Psalms 109:6 "Appoint an evil man to oppose him. Let Satan stand at his right hand."

David beggs God to send Satan to his enemy.....

Most Christians don't realise that Satan is infact a tool of God. God's state atteurney. Satan is God's right arm, and the Son of Man stands by his side....
I won't be arrogant enough to claim what most christians realize or don't. However christians relate to Satan or god can be from any number of interpretations, like your own above. It is not definitive or absolute. Which is why people argue.
Which is why these debates are so amusing.


[edit on 22/10/09 by atlasastro]



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 07:13 AM
link   
reply to post by atlasastro
 


Looking at how human society works, we use scapegoats to cure it, and have always done so. And Satan is the ultimate scapegoat. Beyond Jesju or any Christian martyr. Satan has been blamed for having brought lies, death and all kinds of wickedness into this world. If Satan comes your way, you can bet God has sent him to you to test you. Will you be like Job or will you be like Bileam (Balaam)? It's as easy as that, really. It doesn't help to blame Satan for the lightningbolt that killed your aunt or the science that brought down Catholic supremacy. It's just no use.... People fear the unknown and build explanations in the shape of religion and philosophy to deal with it.



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 07:18 AM
link   
reply to post by atlasastro
 




The US dropped a nuclear Bomb on Japan, ending Japan's War. The dropping of the Bomb was evil. But many would view or accept it as a necessary evil in order to let Good( in the form of peace) to exist.


As you stated, "View or accept as a neccesary evil in order to let Good"... Be it for so called good or evil intentions, it doesn't truly make a horrible act any better. Would you claim bombing innocents (and specifically targetting large masses of innocents) is a "necessary evil"?

If it was specifically targetting specific military bases, MAYBE it could be seen as a little better as (I'm going to quote an anime here, Code Geass) "The only one's who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed", but what did the innocent do? Can you seriously view that act as neccesary? To specifically target large amounts of innocent civilians?

And then, in God's case, what did homosexuals, or even blasphemists do? Is it a neccesary evil in those cases? To have them murdered



Because there is a perception that the act can be seen as good and creates many things to consider when applying the absolutes of Good or Evil. They are essentially acts. We then categorize them along the moral spectrum from whatever point of view we have, there are no absolutes.


I am going by the biblical sense of evil mainly. Due to your fact there, that it would just be personal opinion otherwise.



First off, you are already deciding they are Evil for God as well. Why even offer debate?


So then, God is supposed to be far and beyond the guidelines he himself put in place. Humans are bound under the rules they create (and I know that's a bit iffy for some). So why is it then that God is above his own rules of not killing? Just because he's the creator? Just because he created something means he should have the right to get rid of it, which should mean then just cause a woman gets pregnant she has the right to ge... OH WAIT... God screwed them over too right? No abortions. So we are meant to abide by rules, whilst he doesn't need to? Hypocritical ay?



Read the damn book and find out yourself.


Now now... don't curse the bible, the bible is the word of God. Don't blaspheme.



God apparently promised that after the "flood" he would never do anything like that again.


Don't worry, GOD CAN LIE... with no punishment... so it doesn't matter... heaven could be a lie. He'd be allowed to tell humans that and have them believe it. Feel like an apple? (I hope you get the reference)



entity that is too abstract to understand and then requesting that it behave with anthropomorphic characteristic in relation to Good and Evil.


From what you've said, Satan also is unbound by the very rules of the bible, thus Satan is not evil. Then why are we meant to not listen to Satan? Why is it claimed by Christians preaching to passers-by that we need to be saved by Satan and turn to God?



if you coached people to win, and winning was to become something eternal and wonderful yet the team deliberately ignored the coaches instructions and that meant losing and joining the devils team


Now now, what was it you said was so bad about the devil again? That he's above our rules, just like God?



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 07:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by atlasastro
 

The main problem I find...is just because God is God...he can do whatever he pleases...I just have a problem with that...
That is fine. But does that make God evil, because you have a problem with the concept of that god.

no one entity should have unquestionable power over anything and everything...and be free from all judgment...
You are questioning God are you not? You are Judging god, and his action. You have judged that gods action are evil and you have questioned gods power and the way it has been applied.

it's really hard to explain...but I just don't think that's right...
You just explained it. I understand it. I disagree with your feelings that you can infer God as being evil by the selective use of literal interpretations of biblical events in the manner you have without applying the same literal biblical nature of God as well. That is my argument.

it's like me having an ant farm...and just because I'm the almighty creator, with an intelligence those ants could never begin to understand...doesn't mean I can do anything I like and treat them like crap...
Well yes, you in fact can do that. How do you know God does not ponder the same moral paradoxes associated with being a reference for Good and executing the will of an all powerful being that may contradict that to our eyes and from our limited finite position? These are the arguments that will constantly pop up when you are considering the actions of an unknowable entity and why these debates are endless and ultimately pointless. You just cannot know, can you, what a God thinks.

it may be a simple analogy...but I just think it's "wrong"...big deal...he's the all mighty, all knowing, unquestionable overlord of everything...so freakin what...that does NOT make him free from all checks and balances. Every being in existence, no matter who or what they are...will get what they have coming to them...

It is fair to express that opinion. But what you think is fair or unfair is not the barometer of Good or Evil, is it. What you think is fair has nothing to do with how the bible describes god or satan, or how they relate to our concepts of Good and Evil.
Christianity does not ask you what is fair when they consider good and evil, they ask the bible. Which is where christians relate to God as being Good, and Satan being Evil. More so influenced by the New Testament than the Old I would hazard a guess. Which is why they are Christians and Not Jews.
So you are not really interested in any debate are you? I mean really, you seem made up in your mind and your debate reflects as much.

I mean lets spin your arguments, it would be like a christian starting a thread about how Good god was for saving Noah by focusing on the literal interpretations of the Bible describing God as being good by the act of Saving Noah. And that christian saying, well I like the Idea of God, I know its hard to explain, but I know, in my soul, that God is Good for saving Noah.

I would have the same arguments on that thread that I have with yours. It is not a debate. Its a soap box.



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 07:38 AM
link   
And a thing that amuse me a lot, is when people starts to talk about black contra white magic, and black contra white angels. Where black magic and angels is evil, while white magic is good. All crap. "Black magic" comes from the word Alchemy which comes from Arabic "Al Khemet" which means "From Egypt". Khemet (Egypt means literally "the Black Land", simply because it was ruled by black people, the descendants of Kam (Ham), the brother of Shem and Jafeth, sons of Noah. Kam means "Black" or "Sunburnt"). There is no such thing as white magic.

In ancient times black, the colour of soil, was the colour of life, fruitility, medicine and good, while white, the colour of dry bones, disease and pale, dead skin, was the colour of death, fruitlessness and evil. Strange how concepts change over time.



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 07:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by atlasastro
 


Looking at how human society works, we use scapegoats to cure it, and have always done so. And Satan is the ultimate scapegoat. Beyond Jesju or any Christian martyr.
I guess you could look at it that way. Most mythology or religious dogma will have these elements within them.

Satan has been blamed for having brought lies, death and all kinds of wickedness into this world. If Satan comes your way, you can bet God has sent him to you to test you.
I won't pretend to bet against God, or claim to understand God and Satan or how they relate to each other as well as me.

Will you be like Job or will you be like Bileam (Balaam)? It's as easy as that, really.
I guess I can read the bible and learn lessons that may inspire behavior that would seem righteous to God, but I will be myself if I am being tested because I will not be living my life as either Job or Bileam.

It doesn't help to blame Satan for the lightningbolt that killed your aunt or the science that brought down Catholic supremacy. It's just no use.... People fear the unknown and build explanations in the shape of religion and philosophy to deal with it.
I have free will. I don't make excuses for myself. And I cannot remember blaming Satan for anything in any of my posts, but only point to Satan as a reference point in the dichotomy and spectrum of Good and Evil. I agree that people fear what they don't know or understand. Which is probably why the OP and many others do not like the Idea of the God in the book called the Bible.



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 07:55 AM
link   
reply to post by atlasastro
 



I mean lets spin your arguments, it would be like a christian starting a thread about how Good god was for saving Noah by focusing on the literal interpretations of the Bible describing God as being good by the act of Saving Noah.
Yes, but I'm trying to look at the whole picture...not just one aspect of it (saving Noah)...and from what I can tell...God has done things I would consider unnecessary evil...anyways...I'm probably done for tonight...so I'll check back later.

EDIT:


I agree that people fear what they don't know or understand. Which is probably why the OP and many others do not like the Idea of the God in the book called the Bible.
That's actually an insult to me...and you couldn't be further from the truth...I embrace the unknown with open arms...seeking answers...delving into a sea of mystery...I face it head on...it's like my drug.


[edit on 22/10/09 by CHA0S]



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 08:10 AM
link   
reply to post by atlasastro
 


Hello atlasastro!

Just a thought here, something I have learned that we 'are' to do is to 'test' the vine, the seed, everything that we gain as a wisdom or an understanding....test it with the Holy Spirit.

Most wont dare to even think of a 'way' to do this or attempt to think 'testing' God is ......ok.

What I found out was....the Holy Force of this 'God', our emanator, the Monad of all of eveyrthing that is Life.....made everything emanate in a way that ALL things, return to their source. God never left a book for you or me or anyone....the answers were already woven here. I know you cant see that right now but I hope one day you will because its the most beuatiful knowing.

We are to test, we were wired to be cognitive, to reason, to solve problems, to intake the world with our senses.

The way our minds are wired, we do judge. Its how we analyze, formulate, figure things out about ourselves and others.

By a great man, you were told to 'know a vine by its seed'. I find these very wise words.

Know a 'nature'. Discern natures. If we are to better ourselves, is it not because God is that 'better'. Why would we have to be perfect to enter but Thee not be perfect?

There are wise words in that book yes, but if you arent discerning, you wont see your own flesh nature coming out in the belief that God does such things or works in such ways.....ways that were told to be actions of flesh, its all there, between the lines.

Which goes back to the question of the OP. What makes Satan evil? Then things were discussed of these horrid things 'god' does to solve problems (carnal ways to solve problems, just as humans do). Surely God is consistent in Thee's ways, and not one way this time and a different way that.

Again, know a vine from its seed....know the seed by the vine.

I would be careful, to think that Gods vineyard is not being watched on or fooled with by a 'master' of our vineyard (I would have to assume something like an alien race) over something supernatural or of other dimensions.

Gods word is in life, it is eternal. Only a deceiver would have to use a material object that holds no life, a dead object that can be destroyed.

To keep shrugging off the truth of the matter of two different natures of God you are justifying, then you follow the carnal way. It is important that we do understand why this is all so, why a deception would be allowed. That is just it.....its not God intervening to make it so or not....its man, man trying to make something so. If you go back to this time, to the people, it makes perfect sense why they believed the things the did.

God was always here, never left, the word is 'life'. Jesus I think knew this....so to say he was the word, would be truth, to embrace the respect and reverence of life.....seems to awaken the Universe in some magical way. Love is a magic in itself we dont understand yes. It will conquer all things.



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 08:24 AM
link   
reply to post by atlasastro
 


Sorry if I was unclear. When I write "you" I refer to "any" or "one" or "whoever". I don't see you as one blaming Satan for all evil in this world and in your life, but many in this thread and elsewhere on this forum are, and it seems they are all calling themselves Christians allthough Jesju told us to turn the cheek, love our enemies and be forgiving.

Ex.: When George Bush jr. defined the Axis of Evil, Iran started producing nuclear fuel, North Korea restarted it's old nuclear arms program they left several decades ago, and the world became a less secure and more unstabile world. Thanks to some idiot "Don Quijote" crusader named Bush we now have to pour out babies' milk at the airport because it might be a bomb. A naive, paranoid, stupid antichrist, painting devils on the wall, breeding unsound paranoid suspisious behaviour out through the world with racial, political and religious profiling. A godless tyrant who through his Machiavellian methods managed to strip Western citizens for every right and freedom we have worked for since Rome fell. Why aren't there legal and democratic mechanisms in place to ensure that people like George Bush jr. can be removed from office before they bring about such evil that we are now trying to undo at the cost of trillions or zillions of dollars? Thanks to Bush we got a bunch of new enemies, a worldwide economic breakdown, a new World War (War against Terror) and the list never ends.



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 08:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by John Matrix
 


If its all Satan's fault for tempting me, how do I get the blame?


Because you have been given a choice and a free will to make that choice.
Scripture speaks of God having said:

Today I set before you life or death, a blessing of a curse.

You pick to follow the spirit of this world(satan).
or
The Spirit which is from God.

The consequences of your choice are made clear.
You have no one to blame but yourself.

You make yourself be a conduit through which Satan can do his dirty deeds and in doing so you waste your powers and your life.


Wow...I find this post to not sit well with you, but I really dont know you, so I will just accept it as is.

I do know, we all stand for our words one day, against tht person that we spoke to or was spoken to by. I hope to one day have this moment spoken for or against....by Thee Divine Eye and Thought....and I know I will only give love and forgiveness. I know in that moment, one of us, or both of us, will surely learn something.

My soul is to be banked on things I cant experience with my sense? Yeah I followed that way most of my life. Satan is a perfect symbolism of what our 'flesh' desires and what the experience of being in the 'flesh' brings us. I do not live for the flesh, I weigh everything with the Spirit and discern everything. Deception is allowed...for the light is found through the darkness. Polarity is everything for this purpose.

Ya know, if I just accepting without seeking...then yeah, I would have no one to blame but myself.

Thanks for the judgment, we all need it now and then, we should always be scrutinizing our thoughts, beliefs, and actions.

LV



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 08:43 AM
link   
This is simple, why does the batery have a minus and plus.
There is a plus and a minus. Negativity and positivity, there is up and down. When things fall down is it bad? Anything that falls down at a natural speed will break. A parachute has alot of minus , negativity and it's a bad thing, but there is some plus in to it, making it fall slower.

Because skydiving is risky? Is it a bad thing if nothing opens after pulling the cords? Because it does not fall at a normal speed something is holding it's speed and that is a plus, it's positivity.

Down, minus, negativity and bad is in fact one big thing but it's refrence can take many words.

Of course bad is bad and good is good, they are real, and can be found in real life.








[edit on 22-10-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 08:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by Neo-Dark
[

As you stated, "View or accept as a neccesary evil in order to let Good"... Be it for so called good or evil intentions, it doesn't truly make a horrible act any better. Would you claim bombing innocents (and specifically targetting large masses of innocents) is a "necessary evil"?
This is what I stated.
But many would view or accept it as a necessary evil in order to let Good( in the form of peace) to exist. The act may be horrible in context but does that make the people who commit the act Evil? That is what the OP is implying in relation to God. It is not that simple. The intention of dropping the Bomb was to end the War. The consequence of that act was to kill innocents. But even the concept of these people being innocent is open to interpretation as a way of justifying the bombing. In this I mean, citizens of our enemies are our enemies too. It is not black and white. In the OP's example, The Bible states that Gods intention was to rid the world of sin, wickedness and violence. The consequence of this was to flood the world killing people.

I was stating that people would accept it. I was not saying that I would. In fact people did accept it. We know that my example happened. People are accepting it now in Iraq and Afghanistan. So does this mean that everyone is evil? It is not an absolute, you cannot come to that conclusion about God either in MHO.


"The only one's who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed", but what did the innocent do? Can you seriously view that act as neccesary? To specifically target large amounts of innocent civilians?
If only life were a cartoon. Can I, no. But others can, and have. They include God if we are using the bible and christianity.


And then, in God's case, what did homosexuals, or even blasphemists do? Is it a neccesary evil in those cases? To have them murdered
I don't know. I am not god. That is why I don't go around flooding the world, and killing Homosexuals or blasphemers, but just living in it. I guess you are free to contextualize it as murder, but you are reducing the entity of God to a Human. Humans murder people. If we go by the literal interpretation of God in the bible then we cannot know what God does to people when they Die in the manner described in the flood situation, do they come back, do their souls get another chance? I mean essentially they would be returning to the source that enabled their very existence, is that murder or just recycling?
You have to remember that Noah was before Moses, so there were no 10 commandments etc Noah made a Covenant with God, that was the only agreement God made with Noah, and it was in relation to Gods behavior and not Noah. God promised not to flood the world again.


I am going by the biblical sense of evil mainly. Due to your fact there, that it would just be personal opinion otherwise.
Then you have to apply the Biblical sense of God as well in relation to evil. Is evil a definition of Gods acts or a just reference for Us. Everything in this debate is personal opinion dude. Everything.



So then, God is supposed to be far and beyond the guidelines he himself put in place. Humans are bound under the rules they create (and I know that's a bit iffy for some). So why is it then that God is above his own rules of not killing?
Because he is God. That is what makes him god. Your argument is stupid. Think about it. Yu are actually asking why is God not Human. Why is God not bound like a Human.

Just because he's the creator? Just because he created something means he should have the right to get rid of it,
Yes. It appears as though that is the case if you read the bible.

which should mean then just cause a woman gets pregnant she has the right to ge... OH WAIT... God screwed them over too right? No abortions. So we are meant to abide by rules, whilst he doesn't need to? Hypocritical ay?
I guess you can interpret it like that. But once again you are allowing for varied interpretations and context outside of the literal example of God from the bible.
You accept that God is an absolute power, but then think you can understand that power or even apply your own limited and finite rational and contemporary moral code to that literal interpretation.



Now now... don't curse the bible, the bible is the word of God. Don't blaspheme.
I can curse whatever i want to curse. I am not bound by bias or ignorance there for I am free of the burdens that cloud your own arguments.




Don't worry, GOD CAN LIE... with no punishment... so it doesn't matter... heaven could be a lie. He'd be allowed to tell humans that and have them believe it. Feel like an apple? (I hope you get the reference)
Yes, I know. Which is why I said I hope we could take God's comment as being literally true. Do I feel like an apple, yes I am rather hungry. Cheers.


From what you've said, Satan also is unbound by the very rules of the bible, thus Satan is not evil. Then why are we meant to not listen to Satan? Why is it claimed by Christians preaching to passers-by that we need to be saved by Satan and turn to God?
No you are inferring that what God is as an entity is exactly the same as Satan. I don't know if that is fair to do. The Bible states that there is a clear distinction between the entity of God and the Devil. The Devil is Not a GOD. The devil is not equal to God. The devil, in the bible was held accountable by God. Which is why, he is the devil. Go figure hey.
Perhaps you should just read the damn book.



Now, now, what was it you said was so bad about the devil again? That he's above our rules, just like God?
Now, now, what was that you just inferred from another inference. The Devil is above any rules I guess, that we set. But is the Devil above Gods?
Point out where I equate Satan to God. Point it out. Show me where I said it. I have constantly stated that Satan is used as a reference point on the spectrum of Good and Evil but that Satan is not the spectrum itself, like God would be, considering God is the all powerful being and creator and the Devil is not.
Here it is:
God is supposed to be the ruler of the world so he theoretically can do whatever he wants. Is god bound by the moral imperatives that dictate us. You are trying to understand an entity that is too abstract to understand and then requesting that it behave with anthropomorphic characteristic in relation to Good and Evil. Further more, what is even more absurd is that the dichotomy of Good and Evil that the OP brought up is inspired by that veryGod of the Bible but nowhere in the Bible is that God described as being restricted to that dichotomy.
post by atlasastro






[edit on 22/10/09 by atlasastro]



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 09:01 AM
link   
reply to post by atlasastro
 


Do you not see how you are limiting God to human ways? Surely there is a higher way, a holy way, to solve such issues for God.

The idea that we reap what we sow is a Law of Nature. It doesnt make God evil or mean, it makes God a nature that allows all things to keep learning, keep growing, keep becoming more Spirit then Flesh.

Reaping what we Sow is a nature, a cycle, a order. There is no escaping this order, no scapegoat. Man will follow the way of flesh until he is ready to follow in ways of Spirit, all in due time.

This is why turning the other cheek is so important, there are good acts that can make up for our flesh ways (carnal ways).

God did give us a way to discern how Thee works, its not through intervention or mistakes or regrets....its through discernment of what is of flesh and what is of spirit.

Gods way is through love and cycles of life. It must be sought and can be found.

How can God be love if love is not prideful (OT god)? How can God be love if love is not jealous (OT god)? How can God be love if love does not boast (OT god most certainly boasted)?

But people feel like they have to accept this....are they really discerning why this would be, or are they just accepting it, because the book says it is?

Thanks always for discussing, I dont go back and forth with others for any reason but to learn and be concerned for all.

My best
LV



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 09:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by atlasastro
 


Do you not see how you are limiting God to human ways? Surely there is a higher way, a holy way, to solve such issues for God.
I guess I can see that you see that I see things that way. I disagree.


The idea that we reap what we sow is a Law of Nature. It doesnt make God evil or mean, it makes God a nature that allows all things to keep learning, keep growing, keep becoming more Spirit then Flesh.
I agree. I have stated that we use terms like Good and Evil as a context or spectrum but that God would be outside of this.


Reaping what we Sow is a nature, a cycle, a order. There is no escaping this order, no scapegoat. Man will follow the way of flesh until he is ready to follow in ways of Spirit, all in due time.
These notions are nice, but they are just cliche's in a way. To argue that we reap what we sow could even be accepted as a disguise of causality from a deterministic philosophy. Of course we follow the ways of flesh, it is what we are.


This is why turning the other cheek is so important, there are good acts that can make up for our flesh ways (carnal ways).
I agree.


God did give us a way to discern how Thee works, its not through intervention or mistakes or regrets....its through discernment of what is of flesh and what is of spirit.

Gods way is through love and cycles of life. It must be sought and can be found.

How can God be love if love is not prideful (OT god)? How can God be love if love is not jealous (OT god)? How can God be love if love does not boast (OT god most certainly boasted)?
Your points are interesting and passionate. But I think that you may believe that I am not searching for answer that we all search for.


But people feel like they have to accept this....are they really discerning why this would be, or are they just accepting it, because the book says it is?

Thanks always for discussing, I dont go back and forth with others for any reason but to learn and be concerned for all.
I agree which is why I have stated that people use literal as well as anecdotal interpretation from the Bible. My argument is not wether the Bible is true or not, or wether God even exists or not. But I am discussing the way the OP uses certain example as being literal without applying the same to God. In that, how can you interpret gods action in the Bible as being literal ad inferring from it evil, when if you apply the literal interpretation of God, God is all powerful, creator and outside of the concept of human perception and understanding of Good and Evil.
The OP is defining God and Gods action by specific acts and points along a spectrum of existence that God actual encompasses entirely.


My best
LV
Thank you.



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 10:09 AM
link   
That's the thing that really gets me though...how Christians show unquestionable obedience...no matter what God might do...NO MATTER WHAT IT IS...EVER..."Oh lord let me shine your shoes for you whilst you commit mass mur...I mean...whilst you recycle...I won't question your work...which is forbidden anyway...oh almighty overlord of all that is"

If it were possible...I'd suggest we vote a new God in...but sorry folks... it's a dictatorship...

[edit on 22/10/09 by CHA0S]



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 10:12 AM
link   
reply to post by CHA0S
 


I guess those pesky Christians... they just let God be God whilst they tend to loving others and giving freely of what they have for the benefit of others. Those pesky Christians... how could they... just follow Him like that.



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 10:45 AM
link   
reply to post by Fromabove
 



Yes, those nasty Salvation Army losers! Hanging out with drunkards and junkeys. Even helping them get a decent life inspite of everything. The god that makes them do that must be very evil....

But jokes aside. Much hell has been brought uppon this Earth in the name of God and religion, but much evil has been brought uppon the Earth in the name of science too. Lemmysee: Racial hygiene, lobothomy, bleeding, nuclear bombs, treatment of syfilis with mercury, arsenic and cyanid.... the list goes on and on.... Nowadays they treat cancer by nuclear radiation and chemo therapy... In a few years we will compare it to the above mentioned treatments.



posted on Oct, 22 2009 @ 12:41 PM
link   
reply to post by atlasastro
 




The consequence of that act was to kill innocents. But even the concept of these people being innocent is open to interpretation as a way of justifying the bombing. In this I mean, citizens of our enemies are our enemies too.


Not true. When you watch a NRL/AFL game (if you do), would you cheer for your favorite team even if it's not your city? Or if you don't choose to watch the game and instead turn a blind eye to both teams, is it really fair for someone to class you as one of the opposing teams supporters just cause of where you live.

It doesn't. Things aren't black and white. The problem specifically isn't technically the bombing (though it is a problem) it's who they targetted. They'd wanted mass casualties, no matter what the innocents opinions in the war had of been.



I was stating that people would accept it. I was not saying that I would. In fact people did accept it. We know that my example happened. People are accepting it now in Iraq and Afghanistan. So does this mean that everyone is evil?


Who is accepting it? I'm not truly accepting it... I'm just not participating. I'm not supporting the wars, nor am I standing up and throwing grenades at parliament house saying "You (expletive) (expletive)!! How dare you (expletive) other (expletive) countries. (expletive) (expletive) (expletive)"



If only life were a cartoon. Can I, no. But others can, and have. They include God if we are using the bible and christianity.


Yeah... imagine if it was Bugs Bunny...

"Be vewwy vewwy quite... I'm hunting weligion... heheheheheh."



Then you have to apply the Biblical sense of God as well in relation to evil. Is evil a definition of Gods acts or a just reference for Us. Everything in this debate is personal opinion dude. Everything.


You're right... It's my personal opinion... Following God's Will (in biblical sense) = sin = french person doing handstands. Oh wait, messed that up, Disobeying God's will = sin = evil... even if God commands it, correct?
Eg. "Go kill that person for being homosexual" - God to William Sparrow, William kills the person, "Thou shalt not murder" broken (homosexuality cannot technically be seen as corrupt as corrupting, see my previous arguements for the corrupt part, and for corrupting, I'll say just 3 words, Death Penalty, Texas), sin, William = Evil
Same scenerio, William doesn't kill the person, Blasphemy, sin, evil.

God gets his own rules cause he feels like it, that is how a dictator works. They kill who they don't like and kill you if you kill someone you dislike.



You have to remember that Noah was before Moses, so there were no 10 commandments etc Noah made a Covenant with God


You brought up the flood there, not me. Either way though, God ordered for murder of homosexuals and blasphemists.



No you are inferring that what God is as an entity is exactly the same as Satan. I don't know if that is fair to do. The Bible states that there is a clear distinction between the entity of God and the Devil. The Devil is Not a GOD. The devil is not equal to God. The devil, in the bible was held accountable by God. Which is why, he is the devil. Go figure hey.
Perhaps you should just read the damn book.


Satan is not human, so by your logic not bound by the same rules. If the bible (and God's rules) is for humans. Thus anything Satan has done, which is so called evil, is in no way evil, thus Satan is not evil and no one should scream I need to be saved from Satan.

And I'll leave it there for now cause I'm tired as, and I'm barely sure what I'm writing anymore.

"Meep meep."



new topics

top topics



 
20
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join