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Sexuality in Today's culture

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posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 




Emotional issues that arise with having sex with multiple partners, complications,
STD rates amounst those with higher number of partners, etc..


But I would suggest that these emotional issues you speak of are exactly that:emotional issues. And the physical issues are physical. It's possible to have an emotional relationship without sex. It's possible to have a sexual relationship without emotion. Confusing sex with emotion is a huge source of the problems our society has. You might choose to have both a sexual and an emotional relationship. Or you might not. Assuming that they are both somehow neccesary, in my opinion is an error.

Your emototional reaction to the sexual relations of other is, in my opinion, an emotional issue of yours. Not a spiritual issue of theirs.



Surely you agree that sex is healthiest within the
confines of a strong, dedicated relationship?


I'm not completely convinced that sex is healthy at all. Allow me to leave room for uncertainty here...but a piece of me suspects that in spite of the neccesity for reproduction, sex may well be very much like an emergency release valve in a pressurized system. People don't like sex because it's fun...they like it because their spirit is so badly maintained that the natural energies of their body are clogged, and sex releases those energies to keep them from blowing up.

The "healthy relationship" that you speak of is the important part. But if the relationship genuinely is healthy, and if both of the two individual in it are healthy...then sex is completely unneccesary and serves no useful purpose whatsoever.

I'm not completely certain of this. But I suspect it may be true.




posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by For(Home)Country
 


You appeared to be implying that the only possible way for the status quo to change would to for the government to step in and create regulation...maybe make pornogrpahy illegal, maybe mandate that clothing cover certain body parts...whatever.

If that's not what you meant..ok. Again, that's what you appeared to be saying, but that interpretation didn't really fit with the rest of the discussion. So I assumed it wasn't what you really meant.


No, you interpreted me correctly. I'm a strong believer in big government, as it's the only governing body uniform and large enough to impose regulations on people of the entire nation. I know, I'm crazy.



The entire notion of women hiding themselves from men...to keep them from "thinking lustful thoughts," in principal that seems like an abomination to me. It is proper for a man to make use of a woman. Whether that use is physical, sexual, emotional, or otherwise...it is proper for a man to make use of a woman. This idea of "thinking lustful thoughts" can only be an idolization. But even if a man does idolize a woman, that's not her fault, that's not her problem. She's not responsible for that. And, if she allows herself to be put to the use of his idolization, she is serving her proper purpose by being used by a man. This idea that women must hide themselves to prevent men from idolizing them...it seems like altogether a broken way of looking at things.


We have very different ideologies, and that is great because we can both come away with new perspectives. What intrigues me is you putting a utility value on the female body! It is 'proper' for man to make 'use' of a women? If you are referring to use as in sexual gratification, then please tell me why oh why would you see a female as a mere vagina and reproductive system? Please tell me if I interpret you wrong, but that seems extremely chauvinist. Men and women are supposed to coincide like friends, partners; two different species with two different views, putting them together to make a complete picture. No one gender is more dominant than the other generally, and in no way is it man's duty to use a female soley for her reproductive organs. But I really hope I'm way off on this one and this isn't how you actually meant that.



To me it seems like you recognize that humanity has some weaknesses, some failings...and you're attempting to design a society to accomodate those failings. Me, I would rather correct the failings in humankind, so that they no longer exist...so creating a society to accomodate them is pointless.


Society must be fixed by forced totalitarian means




Money and corporatism would be irrelevant. People would suddenly havea great deal of time on their hands, and even if 90% of the population decided to fall into extreme hedonism, there'd still be plenty of geeks and hobbyist engineers to keep society running, simply because they enjoyed doing it.


I think that would be a great alternative as well.




[edit on 113131p://222 by For(Home)Country]



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by For(Home)Country




western society will always exist with it
until captialism becomes more regulated.




You know what you are suggesting there don't you? No Thanks!!


Oh trust me, in due time you'll be begging for what I'm suggesting



Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by For(Home)Country
 


It's possible to have a sexual relationship without emotion.


If you would be as so kind, please show me at least one example where this has occurred; where no one of the two partners came away emotionally effected, including deeper emotional issues that weren't evident initially, but only surfaced later on in life. If you can do this, your post will get a star.


[edit on 113131p://222 by For(Home)Country]



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 




If you are referring to use as in sexual gratification, then
please tell me why oh why would you see a female
as a mere vagina and reproductive system?


...please tell me why you would automatically assume a sexual connotation when I specifically said, and I quote: "Whether that use is physical, sexual, emotional, or otherwise."

Sex is not evil. But preoccupation with it may be silly.



Men and women are supposed to coincide like friends,
partners; two different species with two different views


I have a more eastern perspective. I see masculine/feminine as yin/yang. When a masculine force acts upon a feminine force, the masculine force gives, the feminine receives. The masculine does, the feminine is. There's nothing dark or malevolent about this. A man who uses a woman for sex is no different from corn planted in soil, or a painter who paints on a canvass. There is nothing improper about use.

I'll grant you that as real human beings, we're not in rapport exclusively with either the masculine or feminine principal. A man does possess feminine qualities. A woman does posses masculine qualities. But this perception that the masculine is evil and that the feminine is oppressed is, in my opinion, an abberation of western thought.



Society must be fixed by forced totalitarian means






[edit on 20-10-2009 by LordBucket]



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 




LordBucket:
It's possible to have a sexual relationship without emotion.




For(Home)Country
please show me at least one example where this has occurred


The entire animal kingdom.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread512396]
I have a more eastern perspective. I see masculine/feminine as yin/yang. When a masculine force acts upon a feminine force, the masculine force gives, the feminine receives. The masculine does, the feminine is. There's nothing dark or malevolent about this. A man who uses a woman for sex is no different corn planted in soil, or a painter who paints on a canvass. There is nothing improper with use.

I'll grant you that as real human beings, we're not in rapport exclusively with either the masculine or feminine principal. A man does possess feminine qualities. A woman does posses masculine qualities. But this perception that the masculine is evil and that the feminine is oppressed is, in my opinion, an abberation of western thought.


Well it's interesting to see our two different ideologies 'clash'. It certainly represents the diversity that is found around the world. But in saying that the west represents women as oppressed and men as evil is quite contrary. In fact, pop-culture tells us to act the opposite. Much like your eastern views, us men are told to dominate women, and women cater to our sexual needs, or use as you would call it. I don't believe in utilitarian use of women, that's not my stand point. In developing a relationship with a female, I can assure you and others that it's not for the sole purpose of sexual use, in fact I think the most meaningful and "useful" if-you-will part of my relationship is the friendship and sharing that we do. We're not reproductive tools. We are complicated humans with much higher needs than reproduction or sexual gratification. (Although I must admit that the latter ranks high for a good reason). Men weren't created to dominate women and women not to cater to men. We were created to work on a mutual level. Sex should be desired equally (in general) by both men and women, along with relationship.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by For(Home)Country
 




LordBucket:
It's possible to have a sexual relationship without emotion.




For(Home)Country
please show me at least one example where this has occurred


The entire animal kingdom.

Doesn't quite qualify for a star, sorry. Although it is valid to say Humans are part of the animal kingdom, taking an introductory course to psychology will provide that human emotion is much more complex than any other animal alive. Although science is still unsure as to if animals besides humans have sex for pleasure, one could clearly admit without hesitation that sex between two humans is much more emotionally complex than that of an animal. Otherwise, if not for emotions, what would separate us?



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 




I don't believe in utilitarian use of women, that's not my stand point.


Ok. Then, in your view, what is the proper role of male and the proper role of female as they relate with one another? In particular, in what manner are they different? So far, you've only said that they are...but you've not described how.



should


You've also still not defined "should" for me.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by LordBucket




You've also still not defined "should" for me.




Main Entry: should Pronunciation: \shəd, ˈshu̇d\ Function: verbal auxiliary Etymology: Middle English sholde, from Old English sceolde owed, was obliged to, ought to Date: before 12th century past of shall 1 —used in auxiliary function to express condition 2 —used in auxiliary function to express obligation, propriety, or expediency



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 




Doesn't quite qualify for a star, sorry.


Well, I'm not here to jump through hoops for stars.




one could clearly admit without hesitation that sex between two humans
is much more emotionally complex than that of an animal.


Ahh...but your disatisfaction with my example aside, I still see no reason to assume they are intertwined, and much to suggest that they are not.

Is it possible to have an intellectual relationship without a sexual relationship? Clearly, yes. We're having one right now.

Is it possible to have a sexual relationship without an intellectual relationship? Clearly yes, it happens between strangers and drunken party-goers all the time.

Is it possible to have an emotional relationship without an intellectual relationship? Clearly yes, my heart may feel glad when I meet a stray kitten, but I do not connect intellectually.

Is it possible to have an emotional realtionship without a sexual relationship? Clearly yes, I've never had sex with my sister, my cat, or my friends.

Is it possible to have an intellectual relationship without an emotional relationship? Clearly yes, a math teacher need not invoke feelings.

Every other combination is possible. Why is sex neccesarily connected to emotion in your world?



Otherwise, if not for emotions, what would separate us?


Just to answer the question simply: intellect.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by LordBucket]



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 




Answer your question? I believe I was using it in the context you assumed.


So it would appear.
But that admission disqualifies much of what you've said up to this point. You might review some of the previous posts with these definitions in mind.

Your entire concept of things that "should" be a certain way take on an entirely new light when it's understood that this really means that you expect or request it.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by LordBucket


Every other combination is possible. Why is sex neccesarily connected to emotion in your world?



[edit on 20-10-2009 by LordBucket]


Why? Because SCIENCE proves so: here is a simplified article:

When a man ejaculates his brain receives its maximum chemical reward (more powerful than any illegal street drug). Critical to a man’s sexual success is understanding that whatever he looks at while having an ejaculation is what he will sexually connect or “glue” to. Whatever his eyes focus on when he sexually releases - - - a person, image, object, will become etched in his brain as a photographic attachment toward that person, image or object. This called “SEX GLUE”. So after a period of time of having sex with the same person, when he sees her, he is going to feel attached to her. Hence the reason why lights should always be on during lovemaking and eyes wide open – make the eye contact to insure mental bonding of the two. (This process is true for both men and women during sex) A true fact: Men will emotionally and sexually become glued to what ever it is that he views through the eyes during his sexual release, even that of a once youthful, beautiful and slender wife that has now put on little weight and is changing with old father time. Not to mention what happens to the body after giving birth to a few of his children (smiles).


If tl;dr, this is the just of it: Humans are among the only few species who face each other during sex (or at least can) and thus, during an orgasm. When you have an orgasm, it releases a chemical hormone that mentally bonds you to whatever you are looking at at the time, hence porn's strong addiction.

If you don't call that proof of emotional connection, then I don't know what is.

But alas, I must head off to bed. May we pick this up tomorrow? It's been a great conversation thus far. Thank you.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 12:24 AM
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I know of multiple German family photo collections that have been destroyed by religious hackers from the US.
These were not public sites and were password protected so that only the owners/family could enter the site.

The problem with these site were that they were owned by german nudist families and were on a nudist owned photo storage site.

These hackers are breaking so many laws that if caught they will be exterdited to germany and jailed there for multiple felonies.

And before the religious bigots out there get to screaming about it being againt the law to post nude photos of kids on the web or have nude photos of kids all these photos were legal by German law and were password protected for privacy by there owners and not open to the public.

I have a large collection of family photos that are legal under US and German law that i keep on this img storage site because its no one else's business what stage of dress or undress in family photos as long as they are not posted openly on the web.

I have a large collection of photos of myself nude between 4 and 18 years old and in some states in the US i could be arrested if they could break the multiple encryptions and passwords.
But then i would have a very good case against anyone who did and could claim religious persecution and breach of privacy.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 




May we pick this up tomorrow? It's been a great conversation thus far. Thank you.


Yes, definitely. Thank you as well. And yes, sleep is a good thing.


Just to quickly reply to your last post:




When you have an orgasm, it releases a chemical hormone that
mentally bonds you to whatever you are looking at .


Yes, as you say, mentally bonds you. Mentally, not emotionally.The quote you've provided is simply describing Pavlovian conditioning. The "sex glue" that it describes is the neurotransmitter dopamine, and to some extent, vasopresin and oxytocin.

I assert that the quote you've provided is incorrectly correlating a chemical high from sex with emotion. Anyone can inject or injest chemicals that will alter their brain activity. This does not indicate an emotional response. Even a dog can become conditioned to experience chemical response to the sound of a bell ringing. This does not indicate that the dog is experiencing "love" or any other emotion.

This premise that sex causes love, or that love requires sex is part of the manipulation you described in your very first post. It is not true. You may personally happen to be conditioned to experience emotion when you have sex, but there is nothing fundamental about this connection. It is, once again, simply a result of the manipulation, just as is your emotional response to observing the sexual behaviors of others that you disapprove of.

You began this whole thread by stating that there are forces at work manipulating us. You are correct. And they're doing an excellent job.



[edit on 21-10-2009 by LordBucket]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 01:16 AM
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There's a theory that says that the reptilian brain - suposedly our most primitive cerebral part - is the part of the brain is responsible for our feelings of SEX and SURVIVAL. The reptilian always wins, they say.

People with knowledge knows this and exploit that.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:12 AM
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I have to argue that sex is not the "cheapest" experience you can have. There is always risk involved, from pregnancy (at least among heterosexual couples), and illness. In most cultures there are various taboos about sex, adding to the cost.

Sex sells, as others have pointed out. It wouldn't be exploited, if the vast majority of people failed to respond to the use of sex. Whether we "should" respond or "shouldn't", is irrelevant. We do respond.

If you have a problem with the use of sex, then refuse to participate. Turn off the TV. Don't watch the sexually explicit or suggestive shows, commercials, etc. Refuse to go to see entertainment that uses sex.

Of course, you won't be missed. Most people are OK with the use (or misuse) of sex in advertising and entertainment. Perhaps they know that the harm is minor. Perhaps they are willing to accept the harm. Perhaps they simply are unaware of the harm that it causes. But until they have some reason to believe that harm does result, and that it should be avoided, it's going to continue. Might as well get used to it, and just stop watching the things you find objectionable.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 07:17 AM
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To a greater extent, I agree completely with you For(Home)Country.

I have an 11 year old daughter. Its an absolute pain in my wife and mines butt to get her jeans for school that are regular jeans! American Eagle used to have sturdy ones but now they try to show a girls butt cleavage....these are in kid sizes mind you!

Miley Cyrus is proof positive of the entire post. The pic's of her "pole dancing"? Those pics with her dad? That was "uncomfortable" to see to put it lightly. Her dad obviously approved (he was in them!) and gives the impression of incest and general "scumminess". Bloody shame as i had thought he was going to keep her "straight and narrow". Greed.

Clothing on grown women and men (dudes, have some self respect and pull up your damn pants!) is pretty bad. I think styles from the 40's were pretty sharp! Women wore nice skirts (not up to her panty line) and had a little cleavage. Men wore nice suits and kakis (when going out of course).

A lady in a nice skirt or dress is an amazing thing and powerful!



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by felonius
A lady in a nice skirt or dress is an amazing thing and powerful!



I find sexual repression, finding the human body as something "nasty" and to be covered as one of the strongest control mechanism foisted on the people that buy into the Judeo/Christian ethic.

There are tribal people that wear little or nothing that exhibit a stronger sense of morality and fair play than a bunch of war worshiping, violent, westerners. It's not about clothes or appearances it's about the quality of the soul.

I wonder about a society that finds nothing wrong with collateral death and damage to innocents in war but get all twisted up about the exposure of a female breast. What's wrong with this picture?



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


You got a star for that one. It's so true, i forgot about that one. Thought about it many times.

A kid, 13, can goes see James Bond and watch a whole bunch of people get killed but it's not ok for him to go see a movie with nudity, not even sexual content, just nudity.

What the hell, it's a body, why do we classify it to be 18+. What makes 18 so special?

I'd choose showing a kid a movie with sexual content over a bloody/gory one, but hey, it's messed up.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 11:50 AM
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You know something OP.....You are 100% correct. From this day on, I am going to require my wife to wear a burka. The only proper woman is a woman showing only the skin of her eyes and hands!


Fast forward....two hours later after a trip to the burka store.......

Well that didn't turn out so well. The wife punched me in the eye and kicked my nuts in. Thank you OP, you've certainly guaranteed that their will be no sexuality gett'n in this house tonight.....possibly for the next month. The poor burka ended up as a dog blanket.

Perhaps we should just beat our women to aid their submitting to wearing proper attire?




[edit on 21-10-2009 by bismarcksea]



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