wow i have never read such ignorant (not the best word but it will do for now..) statments.. i dont even know where to begin! between the OP itself and following comments. I shall wait for my aggrivation to subside before commenting further... goood gods..

Wow....europeans can't handle the truth anymore than americans can

Relax, we are just having a friendly discussion and there is no need for name calling. I just wonder what people living outside europe and america think....probably not good feelings!

And calling america "a new country" is a bit hypocritical, me thinks. It's the equivilent of telling a 60 year old man "your still young and when you reach 90 like me you'll know 'everything'" I guess everything is relative, isn't it?

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
Also it is important to Remember that Americans left there nations of ancestors, for freedom and liberty. No one Migrated to Europe because you are this beacon of freedom and liberty, except for your present Muslim population who ....

Except for my father in law who left the US for the Freedom of smoking whatever he wanted and a secure job on a university in Europe with full pension and live long Medical care. At that time Reagan became governor of California and the US was fighting in Vietnam. He is still American in all his ways, but he only travels back to visit friends.

I agree with most of what you say though. We all have a pretty miserable history behind us and it is time to see it as mankind's history instead of this or that's country's history.

Originally posted by Pjotr

Except for my father in law who left the US for the Freedom of smoking whatever he wanted and a secure job on a university in Europe with full pension and live long Medical care. At that time Reagan became governor of California and the US was fighting in Vietnam. He is still American in all his ways, but he only travels back to visit friends.

I agree with most of what you say though. We all have a pretty miserable history behind us and it is time to see it as mankind's history instead of this or that's country's history.

He lacked the testicular fortitude to just smoke whatever he wanted to here? Everybody else did smoke whatever they wanted. Wait - you mentioned it was during the Vietnam War that he bailed. Hmm... come to think of it, the US DID have a certain type of guy who ran away just as hard as they could back then. I was under the impression that most of THOSE ran to Canada, but I reckon Europe is always an option.

Life long Medical care? Public dole, or some sort of private boon? If it's the public dole, I'm really sort of glad you folks got him, and not us. We already have enough of that here, and TPTB here are trying to FORCE the rest of us into it. Well, that's my take on this BS of "mandated" health care on pain of Governmental penalty.

I've been out of work since March, and without insurance for the same time. My health honestly has been better (no thanks to that useless insurance, though - had it, never could afford to USE it. Money thrown away), but I'll be damned if I'm gonna go beg the government to "fix" me. They provided the "problem" while wearing their black hats. They don't get to switch to white hats and ride in with the "solution" of THEIR choice i.e. forcing me onto the public dole.

I only mention the last paragraph so that you may be able to grasp how little respect I can muster for someone that will run to a foreign country to seek the dole, as opposed to those who run to foreign countries to seek opportunity to build a life for THEMSELVES, rather than letting someone else provide it for them at the expense of everyone.

As a German I am used to be guilty for the past of my country. But I take amiss, that the OP talks bad about my Muslim neighbours.

You seem to be more a kind of Stand Watie than a John Ross.

Well, at least now I can tell everybody, that I was attacked by an Indian.

Originally posted by nenothtu
He lacked the testicular fortitude to just smoke whatever he wanted to here? Everybody else did smoke whatever they wanted. Wait - you mentioned it was during the Vietnam War that he bailed. Hmm... come to think of it, the US DID have a certain type of guy who ran away just as hard as they could back then. I was under the impression that most of THOSE ran to Canada, but I reckon Europe is always an option.

I just have to say something here..

You are talking about someone's old man here.. there's no point in being an insulting #.

You have some good points in your other posts but what is there to gain from the above? Insulting someone's parents? WTF?

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by nenothtu
He lacked the testicular fortitude to just smoke whatever he wanted to here? Everybody else did smoke whatever they wanted. Wait - you mentioned it was during the Vietnam War that he bailed. Hmm... come to think of it, the US DID have a certain type of guy who ran away just as hard as they could back then. I was under the impression that most of THOSE ran to Canada, but I reckon Europe is always an option.

I just have to say something here..

You are talking about someone's old man here.. there's no point in being an insulting #.

You have some good points in your other posts but what is there to gain from the above? Insulting someone's parents? WTF?

First, there were a lot of guys that came back from the war this one hid from, who were also somebody's old man, that got spit on and called baby killers by folks that didn't even know them, or what they'd done or not done. Not saying this gent was one of them, but as a runner, he was at the least cut from the same cloth. I see folks even now, even at ATS, attempt to steamroll those same guys, who are STILL somebody's old man.

Second, the point about just smoking whatever he wanted to - lot's of folks do exactly that, every day, and have done so for 60 years or more now. None or let's just say "few" of them had to run to a foreign land just to exercise their "freedom", they did it right here. The gentleman in question didn't run just to be able to fumigate his head with his weapon of choice, either. That's nonsensical, not to mention unnecessarily expensive. He had other, more questionable reasons. The bit about smokin' "freedom" was an... ahem... "smokescreen", an attempt to mask other motivators. I guess my main point here is that's a really weak reason to bail out on the land of your birth. There truly are some really GOOD reasons, but that giving THAT as an excuse is pretty darn insulting too.

Third, I can respect that you called me an " insulting # " more than I can respect this sorry excuse for a migration. You were honest, you were real, and you didn't hide behind any weakly made up excuses. I respect you for that. Besides, I probably really have that coming to me. You won't have been the first, nor will you be the last, to tell me that. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

Fourth, it was the poster's father-in-law, not his old man. Of course, I can see his need to defend the family's honor, since that would be his wife's old man, and as they say around here, if momma ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy.

Fifth, Dermo, you just earned a bit of respect from me, whether you need it or not. Good post. You were honest, didn't hide behind anything, concise, to the point, and defended what you thought needed defended. Respects to ya.

Don't expect me to feel a compulsion to get along over it, though.

Originally posted by nenothtu
Don't expect me to feel a compulsion to get along over it, though.

Its on!!

IMO
I think it would be well for all to consider the common enemy and put aside their differences for awhile.
It is not America or Europe that is interested in world domination.
It is factors covertly working the internal structures of all of us that is the true threat. Be a part of exposing it.
There are many ATS members from Australia and New Zealand that can vouch for this also.

American by birth, not by choice.. i was raised in the country until i was 18 and got the hell out.. its a beautiful country with many many wonderful people, it was based upon great ideas..ones that worked for a time... but i have opted to watch from afar since moving out of the nation and the more i watch, the more appalled i become at both its government and people, the obvious bullying arrogance is so wide spread these days it boils my blood.. and i only see it getting worse really.. this is not to say ALL within its borders are this way, and those that are that way arent exactly at fault, they have been kept and formed this way over decades..the educational system alone has a major hand in this..but for the OP to state 'America has worked out its issues' is blind..
ALL nations, both currently standing and anciently fallen havent much history to be proud of..
I remember clearly one thing that really struck me when moving locations was how in the US children are brought up and taught in the school systems how 'free' they are, how America is the most free of all other countries and that everyone wants to move there lol.. ummm no, not so at all and in fact are overly sensored, kept ignorant to a lot of the world outside of their own nation and have been kept more in the dark than many other countries
To be entirely honest i wouldnt wish to be british anymore than i would american.. they are labels given to seperate and put nations against one another.. i am not anti-american, but i can say less and less these days that are positive about the place.
My father always said he loved his country but hated his government.. i get that now more than ever..

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Pjotr

Except for my father in law who left the US for the Freedom of smoking whatever he wanted and a secure job on a university in Europe with full pension and live long Medical care. At that time Reagan became governor of California and the US was fighting in Vietnam. He is still American in all his ways, but he only travels back to visit friends.

I agree with most of what you say though. We all have a pretty miserable history behind us and it is time to see it as mankind's history instead of this or that's country's history.

He lacked the testicular fortitude to just smoke whatever he wanted to here? Everybody else did smoke whatever they wanted. Wait - you mentioned it was during the Vietnam War that he bailed. Hmm... come to think of it, the US DID have a certain type of guy who ran away just as hard as they could back then. I was under the impression that most of THOSE ran to Canada, but I reckon Europe is always an option.

I only mention the last paragraph so that you may be able to grasp how little respect I can muster for someone that will run to a foreign country to seek the dole, as opposed to those who run to foreign countries to seek opportunity to build a life for THEMSELVES,

I tried to ad some humor to the thread of the OP which in general I agreed with as you can read. Maybe I will ad a smilie the next time, for those who read with anger in their soul. Now you are adding venom. Why bashing on a person you don't know, because I pointed out he felt more free somewhere else then his own country, and had a sense for adventure. He smoked whatever he wanted in the US too, that was just a joke. He did not feel free for more reasons, most of the same as many Americans on this board complain about. Media, money controlled politics. And the war atmosphere. And got a very good joboffer by the way. Your suggestion that he ran to escape the draft does not apply, but even if would have done that, I would think that would be OK. People are free to make choices, are they not? That was the topic here. If you are a free country you are also free to GO away, not? People leave my country everyday, for all kinds of reasons, tax evasion, seeking nature or what ever, that's fine with me.

Originally posted by nenothtu


First, there were a lot of guys that came back from the war this one hid from, who were also somebody's old man, that got spit on and called baby killers by folks that didn't even know them, or what they'd done or not done. Not saying this gent was one of them, but as a runner, he was at the least cut from the same cloth. I see folks even now, even at ATS, attempt to steamroll those same guys, who are STILL somebody's old man.

Second, the point about just smoking whatever he wanted to - lot's of folks do exactly that, every day, and have done so for 60 years or more now. None or let's just say "few" of them had to run to a foreign land just to exercise their "freedom", they did it right here. The gentleman in question didn't run just to be able to fumigate his head with his weapon of choice, either. ded. Respects to ya.

Don't expect me to feel a compulsion to get along over it, though.

I am sorry my post got you so far up the tree that you ended up in a world all of your own. As I explained my father in law did not RUN, but just went to live somewhere with better joboptions and where he ""felt " more free. He is still an American citizen and (dual citizenship) and votes in your country. He did NOT run for the draft, but was not drafted. End of story. Your feelings that have to with soldiers, honour and nation are off topic regarding my post.

What I wanted to put forward in a maybe misguiding way is that "freedom" IMO is not a marketing tool, and not something you posses, or defend. If it is anything it is the individually holded space of possibilities, openness, transparancy, to grow in any fashion you want, simply to make your own choices whitout being morally bashed for it. (Moral pressure and socalled "customs", or "duties" "expectations"are the normative visible walls of a human environment and of freedom)
As far as countries concerned, the "free world" extends it borders outside the US. Still, any nation is a controlled environment, and as such always in conflict with it's own defined "freedom".


I wish you well.


[edit on 26-10-2009 by Pjotr]

american continent a very big place why you need to invade anywhere imperialists.

i tell you watch al jazeera they speak the truth infidels.

i tell you i new here i look under !!member tools!! and most of you names on list.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by osama bim laden]

yet another sad, immature attempt to stir up resentment and further divide people that should work together.

We Europeans have committed some atricious acts in our history but you're talking about 50 seperate and individual countries, it's a little obvious that this would be the case dont you think?

and pointing backwards and saying "well you guys did it too" does not justify or in any way mitigate anyones current behaviour.

Is this a conspiracy theory website or just a place to splash resentment and hurl insults around at other nations? Unless, of course, you're conspiring to further the divides between cultures and people.

Originally posted by osama bim laden
i tell you i new here i look under !!member tools!! and most of you names on list.

Oh.

Do tell me which list I've been added to now - please?

I'm genuinely interested.

Originally posted by osama bim laden
american continent a very big place why you need to invade anywhere imperialists.

i tell you watch al jazeera they speak the truth infidels.

i tell you i new here i look under !!member tools!! and most of you names on list.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by osama bim laden]

Oh really now? I GOT your infidel, buddy!

Our names on a list? Pshaw! I'll tell ya what, take that name and call Langley, they can give ya my address and phone number off of their "list". We'll plan a meeting for a party. Bring your own liquor and goat.

Matter of fact, if you're Osama, you have a "group" of friends just a little over an hour north of me. You can bring them too. we'll get this party in full swing.

Unfortunately, "Osama", you told on yourself. The REAL Osama would likely behead you for merely suggesting he took money from the CIA. Everyone who was there knows he didn't, and actually REFUSED it.

Mr Bin Laden brought his share of daddy's warbucks to THAT party, paid his own way, and did some "construction" to boot.

Still, since you have "my name on a list", go ahead and check it twice, then come on down.

I'm ready whenever you are.

Edit to add: Bos teezy, majnoon WLEED. Wish I could figure out how to write that in Arabic script on here, since my transliteration is lacking, but heck, if you're Bin Laden, you can figure it out and get my drift.

See ya.

[edit on 2009/10/26 by nenothtu]