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An attack on America by Europe

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posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


I completely agree. I've noticed this also. I'm writing a much more in depth thread regarding the situation. I've compiled some of my favorite quotes. I'll be writing this up in the next couple of days to let things cool off first.

Here is just a taste.


When will America realize there ARE other countries on this Planet as well?



Most Americans don't even know where Europe is



I watch a lot of shows that are made in America and it is actually hilarious how patriotic the characters in those shows are, Always pledging their alliance to the National Flag



They feel the U.S. do not respect other cultures and wants to impose its own to the world. Everyone love hollywood movies and eating burgers, but everyone hates when Americans seems to know nothing about your culture.



It's a one way exchange. The U.S. lead, but they don't learn. Americans IGNORE the rest of the world. And that is EXTREMELY frustrating for it.




Don't get me wrong, I love the U.S. (another sign of the arogance in my opinion is that you always called your country America, like there is no other culture or country on the whole American continents ; North, Central and South. I prefer to say the U.S.A.)




Every American knows that John Wayne won World War Two ALL BY HIMSELF.

Hollywood is reality for most Americans.

If Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Clint Eastwood teamed up,
the two of them could beat both Russia and China all by themselves.

Americans actually believe this crap...............



Americans ALWAYS try to get the flag in the picture to re-enforce the need to be patriotic to the people




your soldiers are hicks. Good looking, yes. But not very bright.



In 1000 years I can absolutely guarantee you that if someone mentions the USA the next person will ask "Whats this USA you speak of?"



your country has become a souless bloodthirsty monster, that destroys everything in its path.







[edit on 21-10-2009 by SLAYER69]




posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:12 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I agree that there are disillusions on all sides regarding this subject. Ignorance spreads both ways. I understand that a lot of Americans are educated but a lot are just not. Some of my American friends understand the world and not only know where Europe is but know more than me! However, the flip side of the coin is that within the same group of friends two of the girls have not even heard of Brazil and where it is, one had a shot in the dark and said "don’t matter we will win the war against them anyway" Unbelievable!!!!

America became strong because of their strong belief in themselves as a country however, like Iran in many ways they think that their country is the most important and all others are irrelevant.

I will enjoy your thread when it comes Slayer, as I usually do.

Peace



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by LestatG
 


No problem.

Yes ignorance has been shown on both sides in this thread. The US is much more than European immigrants and Indians. We have over 375 million people in 50 states and our population runs the the whole spectrum from some of the most intelligent people on the planet right down to the guy who can't count his change or read a map.

We have a disproportionate amount of people online who cant find their Arse from a hole in the ground the vast majority of us are simply Hard working people who just want to pay their bills and get on with their lives.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:22 AM
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The admittedly horrendous crimes you have placed upon European's heads stems from the fact that Europe is over a thousand years old, one of the oldest surviving civilisations on the planet and so there is more time for negative actions to take place.

In truth, there is no specific country or continent in the World that is any worse or better than the other. All contributed to the slave trade (and still do today), whether that be in implementing, supplying or using slaves. All countries go to war, costing countless lives, usually for nothing more than religion, land or simple greed. Colonisation doesn't happen any more, because there are no more lands worth colonising, although tribes of people are still being killed through desease, famine and delocation through logging and farming of the rain forrests, destroying whole cultures in the process. A practice that Americans (even some American Indians) are wholly involved in, just as much as Europeans.

The human race is a destructive, selfish and greedy beast and pointing the finger at a specific race, country or continent is simple bigotry and ignorance. The technologically advanced will always destroy and take over those with less power. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, the modern Europeans and now the Americans. Nothing ever really changes, because human nature doesn't change.

In conclusion, in answer to the OP, the only reason Europe has committed more attrocities than America is because we have had more time to commit them. Yes, I said WE, as unfortunately, I am European. I would however like to point out that this post has not been a pro-European or anti-American tirade, but simple truth about the human condition.

I am English and therefore do not, like many other Brits like the fact that we are part of Europe (or more specifically, the EU), which is why we still use the Pound and the imperial measurements system.

I have no particular affinity to either Europe or America, but simply had to correct the OP on such a biased view of World history.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by nik1halo]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:26 AM
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Going off on a little tangent - A couple of points:

1) Where are the moderators on this thread? They are noticed for their absence!

2) I believe there is more to this thread than initially meats the eye!

Any thoughts on this.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:40 AM
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reply to post by mpbdsnu
 


Off topic, sorry but I like your signature and I totally agree with it. Me too!



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


with that sentiment in mind, picture the whole of the rest of the world as exactly the same, even the muslims and the african tribesmen, the native tribes of the amazon, everyone!



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by mpbdsnu
 


Good point about the mods, maybe all the t and c´s have been met so no need for input just monitoring, and as to your other question, there well maybe as a lot in our lives had other implications - and if the way you typed ´meets´ was just a typo then I apologise but we could look into that too!!!


Actually eagerly awaiting Slayers thread now.

And just to point out if my previous posts have misunderstood, I have no problem against Americans, after travelling extensively one thing I learned is that there are great people in every nation, colour and creed. However, in the same pond there are also people with so much hate and ignorance it makes me sad and angry.

Peace to all those who wish to learn, grow, live and die together wherever you may be from.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


I completely agree. I've noticed this also. I'm writing a much more in depth thread regarding the situation. I've compiled some of my favorite quotes. I'll be writing this up in the next couple of days to let things cool off first.

Here is just a taste.


Slayer, I'll be completely honest, hold me hands up and admit I can't tell if you're being satirical or ironic here, and that's its probably my fault for not reading your post correctly.

Either way, and again being as honest as I can, I just want to explain that its almost impossible for Americans to understand how all-pervading this attitude is. I, and others see it all the time, whether it's all the omni-present American entertainment media or on 'international' message boards.

When it comes to old chestnuts like 'we single-handedly saved your limey asses in WWII', I can, with hand on heart say, I don't think there's ever been an international message board devoted to any subject that I've frequented for a reasonable amount of time where this hasn't appeared.

I also think this is getting worse too as, over the last year, I'm seeing this mindset if not that particular argument appear more and more in places I wouldn't have expected it too, such as British newspaper sites.

Whilst I can, to an extent, understand a bit of the flag-waving, even though I've opined to my cost in the past that America is very, very unique in the Western World when it comes to expression of patriotism, what a lot of Americans don't appreciate or realise that with all the 'USA = #1' cheer-leading usually comes a subtext of 'you're all losers'.

Lastly, I'll also admit to finding this genuinely intriguing as much as I find it maddening and often mused on why this all happens.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:53 AM
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Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


Lastly, I'll also admit to finding this genuinely intriguing as much as I find it maddening and often mused on why this all happens.


I second that, a lovely post sum it up with a great line to finish. After the bickering it really does raise some very important social and psychological issues.

Peace



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:53 AM
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The OP fails to acknowledge the countless European mercenaries and the French army that provided military aid during the Revolutionary War - without the French military support, America wouldn't have become independent.

Britain dealt with the rebellion very effectively, until other Europeans (led by the Spanish and French) created a coalition to prevent Britain from dominating North America.

It's why a street in New York is named after a French general.

You failed to also acknowledge, that the Federalist Congress of the early 1800s, did desire an Empire, resulted in the failed invasion of British North America (Modern day Canada) Also, no mention of the American - Philippine war. Historians refer to this conflict as the Philippine war of independence after an attempt to formulate a colony. After America liberated the Island, like Cuba, it tried a policy of annexation and flirtation of colonialism.

We can also discuss the history of Cuba, after the Spanish left. And the annexation of Hawaii.

Then the Boxer Rebellion, which Americans soldiers were involved in the European growing influence and control of China. The secret religious sect did not rise up against just Europeans - Americans too.

The great irony is, the US Republicans party were progressive politicians who opposed imperialism. Some of the brutal American foreign policy occurred under the Whigs and Democrats.

Read a book, I believe entitled New and Old Imperialism. Very articulate and stimulating study of the British-American relationship - especially in reference to Iraq and Afghanistan



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:55 AM
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I stopped posting in this thread last night to get some sleep and while I must admit that i did slip unwillingly into generalized attacks a small number of times before I retired.. This thread has turned into a ridiculous mud slinging competition.

It is funny, albeit a bit cringeworthy seeing intelligent people succumb to the generalization mud slinging from both sides.

I particularly love these little gems of information about USAicans.


Hollywood is reality for most Americans.

and..

Most Americans don't even know where Europe is


And these ones about "Europeans".


their level of arrogance makes me look like Gandhi

and

Europeans especially are interested in the (real) guns we wear while "in costume", since their own governments won't let them have them.


Cringe cringe cringe cringe cringe


People are so stupid.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


Fair enough....

Ask yourself the next time you read through the posts here at ATS. Who are the biggest critics of America's actions, citizens, Government, Military and businesses etc..

Americans.


Patriotism?

As many here have already pointed out. We don't have a history going back thousands of years nor do we have monarchies or ancient cultural rivalries. Most of our forefathers let that go. etc. We only have each other.

Black, White, Brown, Red and yellow etc.

All bound together under the Red White and Blue.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 04:57 AM
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reply to post by infinite
 


Nice to have some input from someone who really knows the subject, that’s why this site is so valuable. Many people with many strengths, together it makes a great tool for learning and understanding. I will try to find that book, could be very interesting. Thank you

Peace



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:05 AM
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I havent noticed Europeans attacking US history? How can you critisize them for that yet go on to spend most of the thread critisizing European history?

Isnt this whole thread just a little immature?




posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


Fair enough....

Ask yourself the next time you read through the posts here at ATS. Who are the biggest critics of America's actions, citizens, Government, Military and businesses etc..

Americans.


Which creates a rather bizarre context for this thread, surely? Americans are actually America's biggest critic and the criticisms from elsewhere are secondary in volume and nature, and yet they're still perceived as being 'too much'?

To put that into perspective, the criticism from 'elsewhere' is being described as 'European'. There's actually 50 countries in Europe at this point in time. So let's do some basic calculations here. There's 50 countries combined and even with those 50 countries combined they're still creating less criticism of America than is coming from Americans themselves and yet the volume of 'European' criticism is still 'too much' criticism? Seems a peculiar type of logic to me.


Patriotism?

As many here have already pointed out. We don't have a history going back thousands of years nor do we have monarchies or ancient cultural rivalries. Most of our forefathers let that go. etc. We only have each other.


Which is one of things I've pondered on. I'm wondering whether on a 'national psyche' level, it's almost as if America is trying to cram in a 1000 years of history, flag waving and so on into a fraction of that time. A bit like the new kid in class over-compensating or something. I say that as an observation rather than a criticism.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Merriman Weir]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:18 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


Reread it again.

Many here feel that we as a nation of immigrants let go of the baggage of our forefathers. These awesome cultural ties/Rivalries no longer impact on us as a whole. I'm not going to go into to detail right now. I'm writing a new thread. So I dont want to give the whole thing away here.


Trust me it wont be a typical chest pounding

USA! USA! USA!



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Which creates a rather bizarre context for this thread, surely? Americans are actually America's biggest critic and the criticisms from elsewhere are secondary in volume and nature, and yet they're still perceived as being 'too much'?



Too much?

I recall seeing a thread here called too much America on ATS.
It all depends on ones perspective. No biggy.

Yes we are very rough on ourselves and each other. I know it's odd. This may be new to non Americans who through the explosion of the media and internet see how we conduct our government and daily business and think the whole place is about to fly apart. I know I would if I was not familiar with it but if the truth be told this how we have always been.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet

Discover of the New world and Subsequent annihilation of Native Americans.
Yes because we all know Native America was just full of peace loving Indians that just sat around singing peace songs about each other. Like the Cherokee and Iroquois.
Groups like these regularly conducted "mourning" wars against each other in order to put enemies to ritual or ceremonial death or to get new members into the fold to increase numbers(sound familiar). You leave out the interesting point that trade and contact with europeans increase the ferocity and regularity with which Native Americans waged war on one another. Again the Iroquois waged an economic war against the Alqonquian in order to protect the trade of animal pelts that Europeans sought in great numbers. The Iroquois had exhausted its region of available pelt, and having lost members to both war and european diseases, fought to expand its population and geographical dominance in order to protect its own nation both demographically and economically. This is exactly what people criticize America for, and what you are reminding us of what Europeans have done in the Past.
Does this excuse what the Europeans did to Native Americans? No. But what it does illustrate is that no people, of any origins or location are free from the insanity of War, Violence, slavery or Economic or Regional colonialism's


In 1492 Christopher Columbus found what is to be the new world, which started a flood of Spanish, French, Dutch, and English Settlers on a path of war against the Native population. Men such as Cortez, Ponce De Leon, Ancisco Vasquez de Coronado, Hernán Cortés, Francisco Pizarro, Bartolomé de las Casas , Began their brutal Spanish Conquistador of American Nations such as the Mayans and the Aztecs, in the name of their Catholic God and Gold.
Yes, and these colonialists where horrified by the ritual sacrifice of children and adults in the thousands, if not millions to Mayan Gods. Its tit for tat in the blood lust of the Gods stakes. Look at ALL history regardless. It is the same with the earliest Israelites and Canaanite populations, historically the Book of Judges claims within, that the Israelites waged war on the Canaanites as per "gods words that it was the promised land" but in reality it was more a cultural clash between a modest and religious nation(israel) and a nation of people that practiced ritual sacrifices and ritual prostitution. Israel was also encouraged to stamp out Canaan cities when elements of the Israelite tribes adopted the Canaan culture. Civil battles waged then too.

My point. People will use "religion" or "culture" to justify economic or colonial ideal. Spain saw Gold and killed the "heathens" for it. Israel wanted the "land" and said it was God who told them it was there. So they killed the "heathens". It happens all throughout history.
Is it right? No.



This is still viewed by many Indians today, But for any of My people who happen to be reading this its time we start living for the future and remember the past, get off the Reservations and make ourselves known.

Good luck to you and your people but The Mourning War is a by gone era.
Remembering Past injustices is futile if the remembering is done just to point a finger at long dead ghosts. The meaning of your pointing is to excuse the continuation of habits that many people fear America represents.


I know America isn’t perfect, I know our government and foreign policy is less to be desired sometimes, But can any of you naysayers honestly say that if America wasn’t here this world would be better off? I am sure the Chinese, Russians, and Iranians will say that…
America, as well as my own country and the others you mention, are perfect. They are the perfect reminder of all our past mistakes.
We need to stop making excuses for each other by pointing at other nations as being worse, or looking back at the past to distract us from what we can actually effect some change on. That being Today, and the future.



[edit on 21/10/09 by atlasastro]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


Reread it again.

Many here feel that we as a nation of immigrants let go of the baggage of our forefathers. These awesome cultural ties/Rivalries no longer impact on us as a whole.


But I'm not sure how this works and, judging by this thread, it doesn't really make sense. It seems that you were able to collectively dump the baggage of your ancestors, but Europeans somehow can't? After all, much of the "you did this, well you did that" bickering seems to be based on America's recent history and Europeans much older history. America is getting pointed at for what's happened more or less now, not what's happened in America's past.

Whether or not you've let go of 'the baggage of our forefathers' seems to be pretty much irrelevant to what's been going on in this thread and any criticisms against America generally.



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