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An attack on America by Europe

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posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:06 PM
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Oh and edit to add my boy from down the road has eighth best K/D ratio in the world i can arrange a game with him if you like to see how 'awesome' you are seeing as americans are inherently better at games


Well motor "down the road" to "your boy's" and arrange it

BloodbafMcgraff or yagitfunkedup

[edit on 20-10-2009 by doctorvannostren]




posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I am a graduate of a top US university however I find that a poor measurement of intelligence as many of my fellow alums would likely conceive similarly uniformed discourses as the OP I criticized.

True education is more about a motivated intellectual curiosity than a fancy transcript. No doubt you would agree.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


You know what that is ? A no true scotsman argument . You wish to blame the europeans by reason of descent on the massacre of the american indian , whilst maintaining some kind of pseudo absolution for the actual decsendants of those that actually committed those deeds , and on top of that wish to also absolve them of anything their own european ancestors perpetrated. It was like they suddenly because absolved of all guilt once they assumed the Identity of ' Americans' . 'Nothing to do with us , those massacre of the Indians ' , ' Nothing to do with us , any of the crimes of our european ancestors ,we got a whole new identity now . Then you refine it to those 'Just the goombas who want to point out Americas past aggressions' . As if any definition of who is guilty of what would be dependent upon the personal opinion of America that they have.

"No true Scotsman is a logical fallacy where the meaning of a term is ad hoc redefined to make a desired assertion about it true. It is a type of self-sealing argument. This is an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy is employed to shift the definition of the original class to tautologically exclude the specific case or others like it." en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 20-10-2009 by Drexl]



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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After reading through this thread I guess all I can see is mud slinging.. Americans are evil, Euro's and evil, what a wonderful game.

Personally, I get offended by the Euro jibe, but I do understand as I can not get my American (I am part Cherokee) relatives to see that I am not and will never see myself as European, as I am a proud South Saxon, and I am proud of my heritage.. so if I can not convince them I have no hope of convincing anyone here on ATS.. but there you go.. Generalise away, and throw the mud.

I think, and this is my personal point of view here, that Americans are now getting a bit of the stick that we across the pond get (perhaps the same relates to all countries that had an Empire, I am not sure) But I go and read the Jpost to find that we British are anti-Semite evil Muslim huggers out to destroy Israel, I then flip to PressTV to find we are also Capitalist Satan and out to destroy Iran and Islam. Now there's a win win situation if I ever saw one ;-) (that's a bit simplified but I am sure you get the picture)

For me as an Englishman, all things evil to do with the Empire or England, real or not get thrown at me, indeed it now seems from this thread the American perspective is that all things evil to do with Europe are also now to be thrown at me... (thanks for that, are we actually allies? (sarcasm))

Here's an example of some of the stupidity you might have to deal with, recently some Indian pressure group wanted Britain to apologise for setting up their Homosexual laws in the 1890s (correct me if I am wrong on this date) which they still had in force some 50(ish) years after gaining independence.. You would think in 50(ish) years of independence they could have changed the law themselves, but as they haven't in their eyes that's Britains fault and Britain should apologise. Should I rant, or ignore that.. Personally I can not be a***d to even think about it.

That is the way it seems to work, and I think that is something that perhaps Americans could face up to dealing with, for once you start playing policeman, where you start exerting influence over other nations, where your armies are placed in their countries, rightly or wrongly you will get the blame for everything that happens in your sphere of influence.

We all know the reality is that it is the elite that conspire to drive these things forward, not the people.. and even where the people vote the elite into power, the elite still tend to do what they want to regardless of election promises.

So perhaps at some point down the line you might draw a line between yourselves and the elite and then maybe stop taking every comment personally.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by chaeone86
True education is more about a motivated intellectual curiosity than a fancy transcript. No doubt you would agree.


Yes...

This is why your opening statement peaked my curiosity.


As an American, I am appalled by how poorly constructed and illogical this thesis is. Our system of education is truly pathetic.



If as we both agree True education is an intellectual endeavor to expand our knowledge of the world around us either through observation or experiences then the applications of lessons learned.

Then what bearing does the system of education really have?



[edit on 20-10-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by chaeone86
 


Hey brain child, did you actually read what the hell I wrote? For the last freaking time I stated that this was not an attack on all Europeans, this was at those loud mouth ones who blame America forever thing. (including you) ANd here we go another commie/socialist/loony liberal out to attack CAPITALISM, send me your name and address I will buy you a one plane ticket to China you will love it there.

You did not pay attention to anything I said pulled a few talking points and attacked them. Typical Liberal stuff 1.) pull out the race card, (which I was called one around page 3) read into what you want to...



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by Reading
 


I wouldnt call that American Educated just a liberal.... There is a huge difference.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by Drexl
 


Did you pay attention to anything I wrote or jump on the attack the OP because he rewrites history ban wagon....



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by doctorvannostren
 


Yet it is a fact, and i'm not even scottish, just search by yourself, google is your friend


This discussion seems to me like kids discussing the playstation or sega or x box or...

Our planet and the human race are great (Yes WE ARE) in general, we should be thankfull for our diferent skins and hairs and culture, THAT's what could (i underline could) make us so great, the rest is just do exactly what the "gods of eden" want us to do...
sorry for my English



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Not to a liberal though its there way or no way.....



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


those who are fortunate enough will encounter great teachers who can be invaluable as a catalyst for critical thought.

while this is possible for some in the US, by and large the public education system, which the majority endures, struggles to provide this interaction, and often alienates more than it inspires.

that would be the value and also the fault our system encounters in its execution. My mother is a Public HS English teacher who is passionate about her work, and is glad she is able to connect with a few students in her grade. However, for each of them there are 20 students who, by as early as their teenage years, are already so alienated by the "education" they have experienced that they are resigned to inaction.

but this is all a bit off topic so if you would like to continue your line of questioning feel free to do so directly.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


Well, here's the bottom line. . .Just add up the acts of terror induced by Britain alone. As a matter of fact, the history of Europe naturally extends for quite a while beyond America's. . .so, in just Ireland and Scotland alone


Okay. . .most of us here are human, and many of us do not agree, well, I certainly don't agree with how the usa came to be. In my opinion, the black coats were harshest of all, sent in the name of "God" to punish Native Americans for having their own beliefs.

No country is exempt from its skeletons. Nor any of mankind. In a time when we should be focusing on the future. . .banding together to put an end to the types of inhuman treatment forced upon others. . .we must acknowledge the past to TRY and LEARN from it. At the time of this posting, it is the NOW, and from NOW forward. . .we must realize that even those who want to antagonize others with the past are a part of the problem. Brothers we all are if only in the solidarity of existing.

To those who are vocal about the tragedies of the past, I say there are no clean stones with which to build today's house. Become known, however, for making tomorrow's house better. Yes, the seas are bordered by many monsters. . .none is more frightful than the other. Ask yourself this. . .can peace truly begin with my contribution to ensuring that inhuman acts of yesterday do not occur tomorrow?

Yes. . .I need a new screen name.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by chaeone86

To say Europe declared WAR on the Indians is simplifying what happened. Trade (ie CAPITALISM), had more to do with the demise of native american cultures than violent murder by the west.


Uh huh. I see. Those evil Capitalists at play again... can't even get away from them in the bowels of history, eh?

I'll wager dollars against donuts that the "Indian Wars" of Eastern North America didn't involve the belligerents throwing dollar bills at each other in an attempt to cause fatal paper cuts.

Can one even lift a scalp using the keen edge of a dollar bill?

Economics yes, in the form of land grabs and subsequent displacements, but trade? Nope.



What was the worst thing for Native Americans in East North America?
The whole of Europe? No. Try one family- the Astors. look it up. By and large, Beaver pelts weren't pried from the dead hands of murdered Indians, they were traded for.


I think we're back to those evil capitalists again. EAST North America - Astors - Beaver pelts?

Nope. Wrong era, and wrong area. The Astors were involved in the Rocky Mountain beaver trade of the early 1800's to mid 1800's. Around 1820 to 1840. A 20 year subsegment of the history between the two peoples. The only time beaver pelts factored into the Eastern wars was the Beaver War in Pennsylvania in the 1600's, strictly between indian tribes. Beaver wasn't a major commodity in Eastern North America. Astors factored in nary a bit.



Trade created a detrimental social imbalance amongst natives already embroiled in the chaos of disease brought unintentionally (because we didn't even know what disease was then) by European traders.


True enough, unintentional disease played a part, starting with DeSoto's expedition through the south east in the 1540's, and including that nasty little outbreak in North Carolina in 1594. However, once the europeans got the hang of it, they turned it into a science. By the time of the French and Indian wars, and the Revolutionary War, British agents were distributing smallpox laden blankets to the Great Lakes tribes on purpose - not in strict "trade", but as payments under treaty obligations.

Oh, those wily British capitalists!



Were Natives in South America and Africa Enslaved? You betcha. But not like you described. You seem to imagine ships full of Europeans coming ashore and tying of thousands of able bodied persons and forcing them into work. This would not be possible. It was mostly capitalist trickery that created slavery of the periphery by the west.


Yeah, I "imagine" it a lot like that, but of course we are likely speaking of two different areas here. In eastern North America, it went exactly like that, according to the testimony of Pocahontas (who died in England of those pesky British diseases, after having been captured and bound on the Potomac river by a British captain, and "married" off to an Englishman), and Opechancanough, whose violent dislike of the English stemmed from a slavish sojourn among the Europeans after capture. His escape brought on the near wholesale destruction of the tribe that gave him refuge by the Spaniards on the York River (this was of course long before the foundation of Jamestowne). The Spaniards that attacked them sailed away with 7 of their head men hung from the yardarm - but never came back.

Now I know there's a difference between Englishmen and Spaniards, and YOU know that, But Opechancanough didn't really make that distinction. They all looked the same to him, dressed the same to him, rode the same sort of really big canoes, and most importantly treated the natives the same.

Trade you say? Capitalism? Most of the trade at that time involved Englishmen marching up to a village and saying "give us your corn, and we won't raze your village to the ground." I wouldn't call that "trade", but I suppose it was in a sense. They were traded a wee bit of security (until next harvest) in exchange for the food they needed to live on. Trade? Maybe. Capitalism? Nope. More like the Socialist notion of enforced "sharing".

Sure, trade developed, but not until after the Europeans showed 'em who was boss, in a thoroughly Socialist manner, even if the concept didn't exist yet! That's Europe, always ahead of it's time.

Incidentally, Opechancanough was shot in the back, when he was in his 80's and captive of the English, by a trigger happy English guard. His mistrust of the Europeans, and failure to make a distinction between them, may not have been all that far off base after all.



Conquistadors, while brutes without doubt, did the most damage in the way they used trade to create hierarchies in their lands. By favoring one Native over another as a trading partner, early colonists created an imbalance in once stable communities. A favored trade partner would likely convert to Christianity, and with that is further elevated above his brothers. Encomienda would follow. Look that up.


I'll have to let you have this one, as I'm not as well versed in the history of the early European times "down there". I was always under the impression that the Conqustadors were called that out of Conquest, rather than trading. You know, like Cortez did to the Aztecs, and Pizarro did to the Incas. Not much trading, but a whole lot of bloodshed and forced conversion to Catholicism, rather than voluntary conversion to further Capitalism. I reckon I'll have to look that up too, so I can attempt to figure out why all those indians got so torqued off, if they did it to themselves voluntarily.



I am running out of space and am too disappointed to keep writing into another post.


Yeah, me too.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


Look I was not attack all off Europe or trying to mash you all together, I stated that in the very first post, This thread was not meant as a shot against all of you just a few and they no who they are, IF the rest of you are taking offfense to it then fine so be it...

For a few post I gave G.B a shout out ( the whole love ya thing G.B) G.B is Americas greatest ally and I had mu butt saved a few times thanks to your gornd forces in Basara I will never forget that.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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I have never owned a single slave, and as a result of this, racism garbage does not apply to me.

A racist is a person who is concerned with matters of race.

Do your race-motivated crying elsewhere.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:47 PM
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[edit on 20-10-2009 by Divine Strake]



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by Symbiote
 


umm what?



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


Oh my, i don't think I should respond to this, but I'm so tempted.

Firstly, I am an American, not a European who "blames America forever.'

The fact you describe China as a Communist nation says it all my friend. If china was a real communist land, as marx set forth in the manifesto, how could it simultaneously be the most important gear in the global capital market?

Without China, the capitalist society we Westerners lord over could not exist.


And I do not have a race card. How can I apply for this? I love to race, so if it is required to compete, please help me out here.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 08:00 PM
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Mudslinging and finger-pointing. Which nation is free of atrocities, or war, or negative actions?

Does humanity at this moment in time need accusations or should we collectively start working towards a more positive mindset?

The majority of people here discussing this topic didn't do anything personally to other races and countries to justify any finger-pointing or accusations. Most wars and negative outlook towards others (aka propaganda) are initiated by TPTB, people like you and me are just the pawns/players. Divisiveness, pitting one group of people against another, is nothing more than giving TPTB exactly what they want. It's easier to "rule" us when we are divided against each other. I really wish people would see this, but unfortunately it doesn't look like that is going to be happening any time soon.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by chaeone86
 


www.cia.gov...

China is a Communist state.

en.wikipedia.org...


www.spiritus-temporis.com...

www.google.com...:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADBS_en&defl=en&q=define:Communist+state&ei=Ol3eStLNEsizlAeCs7GoAw&sa=X &oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CA0QkAE



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