The desire to destroy Christianity

reply to post by For(Home)Country

If a muslim paid attention to me because they sincerly wanted me to be free from my sin,
free from death and live in peace and love with their God, not so they could pat themselves
on the back but because they had a genuinte LOVE for me, then YES, I would feel flattered.

But we have no way of knowing someones "true intent." You are only be able to judge based on their words and deeds. If a muslim truly wanted you to live in joyful unity with God as he told you that your wife was an evil sinner who deserved to be raped for committing the sin of showing her face in public...you would not be in a position to observe his "sincere desire" for your union with God. Just like, when the christian who truly wants me to feel the holy spirit within my soul tells me that I am an evil sinner who will burn for all eternity in hell if I don't accept Jesus...all I know is that he's telling me to convert or I'll suffer for it.

But Christianity (or at least the correct form)

But you see...those of us who are not christians have no way to magically know what the "correct" and "true" christanity is when there are so many jerks running around loudly proclaiming that they're christian. The situation is very similar to islam: there are muslims who proclaim that islam is a religion of peace, and then there are muslims running around blowing people up.

It doesn't take many idiots to make the whole group look bad.

You may say that we expect women to not be exposing, but I believe that is what
should be the norm. Anyone who says otherwise is seriously misled and disillusioned.

...just like muslim belief about hijab is what they believe should be the norm. How is it any different when christians say "here's a set of deceny rules that we believe are proper and correct" and muslims say "here's a set of decency rules we believe are proper and correct." ?

You say you believe that people who don't agree with your rules are "seriously misled and disillusioned." Well, guess what? Muslims believe exactly the same thing. The only difference is where you draw the lines.

I'm sorry that that is what you have been exposed to.
I can assure you that there are better forms.

Yes, there are. I've known christians who were not offensive. But at some point you need to ask yourself: if the "christian" way of life, if the "christian" philosophy attracts just as many deviants as saints...what is its value?

Jesus said that a tree may be known by its fruit. And if we're to watch for false prophets, if we're to examine religions based on the fruit they bear, I see no reason to choose christianity. There are an awful lot of "problem" christians, and the fact that there are also some "good" ones doesn't invalidate the bad ones. There are good and bad people who aren't christians, too. There are athiests who lead the good life and donate to charity and are kind and honest and loving, too. Is that evidence that there is no God? I say no. But in terms of a phliosophy of life, in my evaluation, from my exposure to christians as a whole, the "fruit" of christianity is not one that I would choose for myself.

The message in this post, ultimately, is the same as my first post in the thread: christians...it would benefit you tremendously if you cleaned house. There are christians who are making your religion look extremely bad. You may choose to dismiss these people by claiming that they're not "really" christian...but nobody else buys it.



[edit on 20-10-2009 by LordBucket]

i listened to christopher hitchens and he is right. religious belief in the past explained things to people. with the modern world, and as humans have progressed, we have found out that god and jesus had nothing to do with the explanations of the past. therefore, the only thing left is to figure out is our emotional state of mind and why it behaves like it does. to believe in a god or gods is to believe in dictatorship, with humans as slaves.
dictatorships and slaves were common forms of government back then, because of primitive thinking. now we have come out of that, and religion needs to take a back seat to science, critical thinking, reason, and logic.

the islamic religion is a prime example of NOT coming out of that primitive thinking mode...they are stuck in the the ways of the world back 1500 years ago.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by jimmyx]

reply to post by LordBucket


And how do you suppose we 'do some house cleaning'? Christianity is about love, and it's not an only members club. We don't just kick people out because of their actions. Their actions are accountable to God. If they aren't producing good fruit, then so be it. I am not going to put down the Christian that hands out bibles to schools and leaves them in the drawers at hotels. I'm not going to deny the Christian who persistently loves someone regardless of their lifestyle because we are no one to judge, and I'm not going to put down the Christian who prays in public. In fact, I wish I had the courage to do these things too. Not so I could be a show off or annoying, but so I could help others by loving, and be more bold in my faith and pray when I know there may be people looking.

And when it comes to exposing a body, my point is perfectly valid. If you would like to debate it, we can open another thread but I let it stand: Regardless of race or religion, it is only appropriate for women to cover their chest to a certain extend, and ensure that the way they dress is the least suggesting. You don't have to be religious to believe in the purity and respect of the human body, which includes respect for what parts you expose and those who view them. Can we agree it is not right for a man to lust after a female who is not his wife/girlfriend? If not, then we have a problem. This said, it is much different than Islamic restrictions on females, which also includes strict penalty for defiance. It is not necessary to punish a women for what she wears, but it is necessary for her to realize what she is doing and change it because it harms all of us, whether you see it or not. Are you going to argue with your wife that it's okay to view pornography? Doubt it. Is your wife going to be okay with another women tempting your eyes by dressing sleazy? Doubt it. You don't have to be religious to have a base morale value, but I could go on forever about this.

See, there will always be varying degrees of Christians. And like I said, I'm sorry you've encountered persistent ones. If they can't change you, then there is nothing left to do. You are free to live your own life obviously. But I will say that if you have no interest in Christianity, then leave it be. If there is some sort of spark of interest, whether cynical or positive, investigate. If you're looking for hope, look past your boarders and those you see. Maybe you'll find something you like. If you want, I would recommend starting here, with this Minister. Her name is Joyce Meyer and runs humanitarian aide along with a ministry that preaches about love. Of course, it's all up to you. I hope I haven't angered you or anything, I'm just trying to have a conversation with you, that's all. Peace

reply to post by crmanager


From my own perspective, I have Christian leanings as I try to do things as per the commandments.

I personally have no right or inclination to tell anyone who or what to believe in. THat is a matter between them and their maker - not between them and the council of whatever church they currently attend.

Yeah theres christian hating stuff on here... but turning the other cheek is apparently a concept in much favor among christians.. so... hmmm.

It seems to me the good pure teaching in the gospels is distorted by the hellenic stupidity of Paul...

Anyways, god bless
Dave

Maybe you guys should all stop arguing about Christianity and focus on the nwo. I believe this tactic is only for us to dvide and conquer. And seriuosly to those who are attacking Christianity: Please respect each other like human beings.

I view christians as responsible for THE biggest atrocities known to mankind. Everything from tortune, war, child molestation, brainwashing, it's all in there take your pick. People do not need to be "christian" to do good in this world. And last I checked evangelicals in Africa were calling children witches and beating them. So don't post the 1% christians contribute to this world and forget the 99% atrocities. Go sit in your 30million dollar mega church and talk in tongues.. just keep it out of my face. And no.. we do not need to destroy christianity.. with every progress made in science and humanity it's another nail in the christianity coffin. Gone are the days of fear and superstition, it's time to live. I think my grandchildren will finally have freedom from religion. A pity I'll get no peace in my lifetime.

Originally posted by reasonable
I view christians as responsible for THE biggest atrocities known to mankind. Everything from tortune, war, child molestation, brainwashing, it's all in there take your pick. People do not need to be "christian" to do good in this world. And last I checked evangelicals in Africa were calling children witches and beating them. So don't post the 1% christians contribute to this world and forget the 99% atrocities. Go sit in your 30million dollar mega church and talk in tongues.. just keep it out of my face. And no.. we do not need to destroy christianity.. with every progress made in science and humanity it's another nail in the christianity coffin. Gone are the days of fear and superstition, it's time to live. I think my grandchildren will finally have freedom from religion. A pity I'll get no peace in my lifetime.

It's 'aight. You're in my prayers
... and so are your grandchildren

reply to post by notreallyalive


Wow, I appreciate the level of honesty that was shown in your reply. Not something that is seen on a daily basis.

I will not tell you you are wrong to feel this way. I will tell you that what I see is a lot of resentment and pain that might be hiding in your answer waiting to come out at another time. There might be more to your story then you are letting on. That is fine.

As a sinner myself, one who has lied and been prideful and full of hate at many times I can't find "The speck in anothers eye without pulling out the plank in mine."

All I can offer is I hope you find peace in whatever direction you choose. God will not send you to hell for not following his word. He will judge based on your life and what you do for your fellow man.

I am a Catholic because I love the majesty, the closeness I feel when I am on my knees praying. And I love those really cool Pope hats.

This may sound odd to you, but if you are angry with God, you need to foregive him. God does not need your foregiveness-He has done nothing wrong-but you need to be released from the harsh results of the unforegiveness and bitterness you may have toward God. If you have unforegiveness in your heart against God, give it up and let it go. God is your friend, not your enemy. Let faith and joy fill that place where unforegiveness once was.

Good luck with your life my friend.:

reply to post by wylekat


My friend, life is a female dog sometimes. I know. No money, fear of losing the home. Fear of losing the job.

One of the most frequently asked questions I hear is "Why would a merciful God allow this pain?" War, rape murder, loneliness.

He simply helps us through it. How did you get through the pain? Was it because you are an "island" that needs no man?

I feel misery every morning, physical and mental. One thing and one thing only gets me going; knowing that I will help a person today. Sounds stupid and corny I know. But it works for me. I think that is God. Might be gas but I feel that this is what God put me here for.

I would love to help. God will work quicker. God finishes the work he started in you. Will you make a similar commitment to Him to finish whatever He gives you to do in this life?

If you have a chance will you grab it? I am a professional coach. I will help anyway possible.

I dont have a desire to destroy christianity, i have a desire to get rid of all organised religion because long answer short.




Its retarded

My desire isn't to destroy JUST Christianity, but every religion on the planet. Every religion on the planet had to use violence and fear, and the oh so loveable Christian faith is of no ecception. That is my main beef with religion. If a religion is supposed to help people, it shouldn't need to use fear, violence, and manipulation to gain followers. The followers of a religion are supposed to join of free will. If the biggest can fall, the rest will topple down too.

reply to post by The Killah29

My desire isn't to destroy JUST Christianity, but every
religion on the planet. Every religion on the planet had to use violence and fear

I'm not so sure about this. I mean, you never hear about radical buddhists burning down villages and killing people.

Can you think of any religiously motivated massacre in the history of the planet that didn't involve christianity or islam? Off the top of my head, I can't. The jews have been involved in some slaughters, but I'm not convinced those were religiously motivated. But even if we say they were...then it simply becomes "Abrahamic religions."

Can anyone think of any religiously motivated slaughter in the entire history of our species that did not involve an Abrahamic religion? The whole religious-massacre phenomenon may have been introduced to the world by christianity.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by LordBucket]

reply to post by crmanager


The answer to the original question is simple.

Originally posted by Jesus Christ

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. (Jn 15:18-24)

People hate the natural guilt they feel from their sin, so they sear their consciences and lash out at anyone that brings it back up.


I thought this was a good post.

Originally posted by For(Home)Country

How is that any different than living in a society where we are bombarded with advertisements encouraging sex, self gratification, individualism, alcohol consumption, materialism, and consumerist saturated capitalism?

I won't even watch much TV anymore because of the rampant intentional sexually provocative Neuro Linguistic programing. And its not only the advertising. There's a systematic effort to promote everything offensive to God. Most people are being led around like animals by their sin natures and don't even realize they are slaves.

Yes there really is a matrix - it works by appealing to your pride and selfishness. The ruler of the world system is Satan - its the exact opposite of what most posters here think - to be free you need Jesus Christ. Perhaps you should consider the question, "If the Bible is just a human contrivance why are all the enemies of Christianity doing everything in their power to make everything it predicted about the future come true?" Because they are ~ I watch Biblical prophecy from 2000 years ago fall into place on daily basis these days.

reply to post by crmanager


As a Catholic Christian I hear it all the time. Sarah Silverman neglects to look at how much money we poor into health care for HIV/AIDS, food for the poor, education (not timeshare style where you have to believe in Jesus), shelter, etc. The Catholic church is the largest provider of charity in the world, beating out governments! The Vatican opened the books under John Paul II to show just where our money goes, but nooooooo! We're some rich fat cats because some medieval popes decided to build the Vatican. We pay for the sins of our past and maybe that is how it should be.

I just got tired of defending the Church and realized: so?

People can call me names, call Catholics names, etc. But that is their reality, not mine. I know what I do for a living. I know who I help. I know what others who work with me do and if people on a web board choose to mock me or make fun of me it changes not one bit the people I help daily.

All of us Christians need to not worry about the opinions of others, not worry about defending or refuting and do what Christ calls us to do and that is to help others.

St Francis said: I preach the Gospel every day and sometimes I use words.

Forget about words, forget about the naysayers and keep on keeping on. Why should their opinion matter more to you than your own?

People are not out to destroy Christianity, or religion as a whole.

People are out to destroy the literal interpretation of the teachings of such religions, which many of us view the followers as robots.

To me it is fine to believe in a religion, but I feel as if some let it take over their own life. Their choice, but it is also my choice to get sick from it.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]

My wish for Christianity is for it to return or rather become what I feel it was always intended to be - a religion of compassion and love. I don't want it destroyed - I want it transformed. There are those who would say that that modern Christanity is exactly that - I would disagree.

The whole "religion is bad" crowd are just lazy. There are good and evil people within all faiths, but the "religion is bad" folk just lump everyone in the same basket because it's easier to deal with.

Well, that's just weak. Religious organisations the world over engage in massive programs of charity and support for the disadvantaged. But that's never talked about by the "religion is bad" people, because their world would then incorporate more shades than simply black and white.

Religion can be used as a tool for good or ill, just like oxy-torches. It can be used to build or destroy.

Making blanket statements like "I wanna destroy all religion" demonstrates nothing more than ignorance, petty reactionism, and short-sightedness.

reply to post by crmanager

God finishes the work he started in you.

Oh... it's finished. And so am I. I've had all I can take of this endless and maddening talk talk talk, and not one shred of action. Let's face it. You don't pray to the Christian God without a copy of your credit history and 3 good references. Nice to know the Caste System never went out of style...

reply to post by WickedStar

My wish for Christianity is for it to return or rather become what I feel it was always intended to be - a religion of compassion and love.

No offense, but keep dreaming. You'll never see it, as long as greed and money rule the day.

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by crmanager

 

God finishes the work he started in you.

Oh... it's finished. And so am I. I've had all I can take of this endless and maddening talk talk talk, and not one shred of action. Let's face it. You don't pray to the Christian God without a copy of your credit history and 3 good references. Nice to know the Caste System never went out of style...

Om nom nom nom nom. Have you ever eaten a sandwich?