The desire to destroy Christianity, page 3

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reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 01:37 PM by crmanager

Originally posted by blankduck18

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by blankduck18

So...your belief is true. Mine is false. Ok.

I will pray for you to find the peace you seem to not have in your life.

When did i say that?

In fact it is you who are saying you are correct everyone else is wrong.

I never said everyone else is wrong. I am simply protecting my belief from attack. I never said another religion or belief was wrong, actually the opposite was said.

You said I am "in the Matrix" *snicker*. Meaning you see the truth and I don't. I am still praying that your arrogance is laid to rest.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 01:37 PM by karl 12

Originally posted by ghaleon12

Google Video Link

Ghaleon,many thanks for posting this one -Christopher makes some very fine points that are very difficult to ignore.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 01:40 PM by For(Home)Country

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by For(Home)Country

Radical events are not the source of the angst. It's small, regular, recurring personal experiences. The twin towers may have been destroyed by muslims, but that was a once-in-a-lifetime event that happened a thousand miles away to people I don't know. It doesn't affect me. Christians, on the other hand, are routinely manipulative, and the source of discomfort. For example...you're at a company party, having a good time, when all of the sudden a manager asks for everyones attention and starts a group prayer, and starts babbling about Jesus. Instantly, everyone in the group who isn't christian is uncomfortable. For a good minute, we're compelled by social custom to sit and be quiet and listen about your religion. All the while we're thinking "umm...what am I supposed to do? He's bowing is head. Should I bow my head to? But I'm not christian. I don't want to mislead anyone. But I don't want to be rude either. Even though I think it's extremely rude for him to be putting me in this situation, and I'd really rather be talking to Sally over there and...uh-oh, should I say "amen?" Hmm. Well, too late now. Wait...Sally over there said amen. I know she's not christianm but she said it anyway. In fact, most of the people said amen and I didn't. That's awkward. Was that rude of me? I don't feel like it was rude, I feel like they were being rude by putting me in this whole situation, and it's especially awkward that it was a manager who did this...I mean, I'd like to be up for promotion next week, and now I've just advertised to the christians that I'm not one of them and...and..."

Yes. This is the kind of thing that's going through our head whenever you guys do your group prayers. And stuff like this happens all the time. I've never seen a muslim, or a jew, or an athiest, or anyone else pull this kind of stunt. And this is the sort of thing that bothers people. Not "radical" events thousands of miles away that happen to other people.
[edit on 20-10-2009 by LordBucket]

How is that any different than living in a society where we are bombarded with advertisements encouraging sex, self gratification, individualism, alcohol consumption, materialism, and consumerist saturated capitalism? Sure, it's not a prayer at work, but I'm still exposed to it in my every day life without any say. Sure, I can move away to a different country where American culture hasn't taken over, but where is that? Sure, I could stay inside, never watch television, go on the Internet, or ever get a job, but then I would die. In the same way, you could quit your job. Why is it that once a Christian makes someone feel uncomfortable, it's a big deal. But yet when secular culture seems to seep it's way into all our lives, no one makes a big deal.

When a man starts talking to me about what kind of pornography he enjoys, or how big those womans breasts are, I feel uncomfortable. When someone tells me how awesome marijuana is, I don't understand. When people tell their getting drunk stories from the weekend on Monday, it's a concept I don't grasp. Yet somehow, I don't make a frenzy about these issues. They are there most defiantly, and they occur regularly. Yet somehow, I just go about my own business because what occurs in other people's lives is not what has to occur in my own.

All I'm saying is ideologies that go against our own are constantly thrown at us, no matter how subtle they are. They don't always have to be religious or political. But when it comes to Christianity, boy oh boy do things get intense. But I think, like someone else also pointed it out, we can account that to location. Being in the west, with Christianity as the dominant religion, it will receive the most amount of ridicule in the same way Communism would receive are large amount of (illegal) ridicule in the Soviet Union.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 01:42 PM by CHA0S

I see I've started a "war" ...for those of you wondering what started this...you can view my thread here: A serious flaw in the bible...

btw...there's no need to get angry...I'm just putting forth my oppinion on the subject...

P.S: Religion is just a small part of the matrix...

[edit on 20/10/09 by CHA0S]

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 01:47 PM by colec156

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by blankduck18

So...your belief is true. Mine is false. Ok.

I will pray for you to find the peace you seem to not have in your life.

Ok so what makes my faith false and yours true ????

I believe in a creator / mother nature.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 01:51 PM by crmanager

Originally posted by CHA0S
I see I've started a "war" ...for those of you wondering what started this...you can view my thread here: A serious flaw in the bible...

btw...there's no need to get angry...I'm just putting forth my oppinion on the subject...

The utter arrogance of what you are saying..."I'm just putting forth my opinion."

The equivalent statement is "I know I just pooed in your bed. Sorry"

Opinion is like an a**hole. You might want to share it because you are so proud but there are many who will be offended by it so share it...just take the abuse went it comes.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 01:54 PM by colec156

reply to post by dizziedame

Hey you have done much good and you did it for what you believe.

I have also done much good like you but I go under the guise that I did it as I like to think that I can be a kind caring person and like to give help to people who are not as fortunate as myself.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 01:54 PM by CHA0S

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 01:59 PM by crmanager

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:07 PM by LordBucket

reply to post by crmanager

CHRISTIANITY BROUGHT SATAN TO THE WORLD?!!!

Basically, yes. First off, you should understand that christianity is an offshoot of judaism. You may not realize it, but the majority of the bible, all of the "Old Testament" is actually the jewish Tanahk.

According to wikipedia, while Satan himself, by that name appears to originate with judaism

Content from external source:
Satan is an embodiment of antagonism that originates from the Abrahamic religions

...jewish perspective of Satan is very different than christian perspective. To the jews, Satan is not so much an "arch rival" of God, but rather an angel in service of God. According to this Judiasm FAQ:

Content from external source:
The word satan means challenger. With the leading ha- to make haSatan, it refers to /the/ challenger. This describes Satan as the angel who is the embodiment of man's challenges. Satan works for G-d. His job is to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so that it can be a meaningful choice.

Mayans did not have a "Satan." Nor the Hindus.

Correct. The closest Mayan equivalent I'm aware of would be Quetzalcoatl:

Content from external source:
As the morning star he was known by the title Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, meaning "lord of the star of the dawn." He was known as the inventor of books and the calendar, the giver of maize (corn) to mankind, and sometimes as a symbol of death and resurrection.

You may notice the connection to Satan in that Quetzalcoatl was the "Morning Star". Or, as Lucifer was known, the "Light Bearer." However, despite his connections with death and ressurection, Quetzalcoatl was not conceived of as a "prime evil" in the way christians apparently perceive Satan.

Nor the Hindus.

Again correct. The hindus do not have a satan. Hinduism perceives everything as a manifestation of God. Shiva may play the role of destroyer, but so too is he associated with the act of positive transformation.

So more or less, yes. The christians are pretty much responsible for Satan. Though you might argue that it's more catholicism than protestantism, but to make that distinction a christian would have to accept that protestants have only been around for a couple hundred years, and in my experience most people who call themselves "christians" are protestants who prefer the delusion that their particular sect has been around since the crucifiction.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:15 PM by CHA0S

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:22 PM by blankduck18

See OP you would be very surprised if you did some research yourself
Rather then believe what you are told
Im not saying anyone wrong or right here
Simply saying that you need to look into yourself
Erase what you have been taught and learn to teach yourself

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:30 PM by crmanager

Originally posted by blankduck18
See OP you would be very surprised if you did some research yourself
Rather then believe what you are told
Im not saying anyone wrong or right here
Simply saying that you need to look into yourself
Erase what you have been taught and learn to teach yourself

EGO on a biblical scale. "Forget what you have learned." It's all wrong?

An what YOU say is correct? Wow. EGO!

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:32 PM by LordBucket

reply to post by For(Home)Country

How is that any different than living in a society where we are bombarded
with advertisements encouraging sex, self gratification, individualism,
alcohol consumption, materialism, and consumerist saturated capitalism?

Because these messages are only passively made available. For example, nativity scenes at street intersections do not bother me in the least. Neither do people who wear crosses. It's a decorative little thing that I can look at or ignore. The advertisements you're speaking of are similarly passive. When I see a poster for "Sex in the City" I may think it tasteless, but I can easily ignore it and keep driving.

A christian passing out bibles to children is difficult to ignore. Somebody shouting at you that you're devil spawn and will burn in hell is difficult to ignore.

It's not some magic property of christians or christianity. If messages of sex and materialism were shoved in my face the way christians shove christianity at people, yes...I would be just as annoyed. The day prostitutes start peddling their wares on high school campuses, yes, I think people will have a problem with that.

Why is it that once a Christian makes someone feel uncomfortable, it's a big deal.

Because it doesn't happen once. If it were just once, it wouldn't be a big deal. For example, the mormons. They've come to my door twice in my life. It was a novelty and I invited them in and talked to them. And then I moved on with my life and they didn't pester me about it once or twice a month for the rest of my life.

All I'm saying is ideologies that go against our own
are constantly thrown at us, no matter how subtle they are.

Many christians are not subtle. "Accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior or you will burn for all eternity in hell" is not subtle. Manipulating social convention to compel people to listen to you babble about Jesus lest they be made to feel rude is not subtle.

But when it comes to Christianity, boy oh boy do things get intense.

I think that you genuinely do not perceive how offensive some christians are. There are many behaviors that christians engage in that people of other religions just don't do. I cannot count the number of times christians have asked me to accept Jesus as my personal savior. I can recall no time in my entire life that anyone of any other religion has ever asked me to do anything similar. I cannot count the times christians have told me that bad things would happen to me if I didn't submit to their god. I don't think anyone of any other religion has ever done this. I've known christians who, even after knowing them for over a decade, still insist that on every gift giving occassion they give christian literature. Never seen anyone who wasn't a christian do this. A book entitled "Why you should accept Jesus" is not an appropriate birthday present. It's manipulative and rude. I have no idea how many times I've been at social events, parties, picnics, company events, formal dinners, and some christian has announced that we're all going to pray now...and beyond even insisting that but having the courtesy to allow it to be a silent prayer...spends the entire prayer "thanking our lord Jesus" for every thing they can think of. Noone of any other religion has ever tried to speak prayers to their god at me. Ever.

Christians do this stuff all the time.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:37 PM by Maxmars

Members: Please do not discuss each other. Do not change the subject from the OP. The discussion is not about the manner in which you have been offended, nor the point of offense. Stay on topic please.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:38 PM by stereovoyaged

reply to post by blankduck18

Thats what I did, I don't "feel" God, I dont see his hand in all of nature and childrens faces and puppies, etc, I see science, genes, DNA, etc.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:40 PM by blankduck18

Originally posted by crmanager

Originally posted by blankduck18
See OP you would be very surprised if you did some research yourself
Rather then believe what you are told
Im not saying anyone wrong or right here
Simply saying that you need to look into yourself
Erase what you have been taught and learn to teach yourself

EGO on a biblical scale. "Forget what you have learned." It's all wrong?

An what YOU say is correct? Wow. EGO!

Every single time you have quoted me you have taken what I have said and twisted it.

Ego? If thats what you want to call it. Im simply saying learn for yourself
Start over, new slate.

I have never said once Believe in my religion Im correct! I dont have one!

I said we are all equal all religions are right. We all have same beliefs

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:41 PM by Neo-Dark

I myself have problems with christians due to illogicallities, the assumption of "good" and "evil", and more or less the social christianity they seem to bring.

What I mean is, the bible states God is all powerful and all good, and yet in Moses and the Red Sea killed a bunch of people who technically weren't in the wrong, it was the pharoah and slave drivers, what did the other Egyptians do? Let alone the Noah's Ark having over 99.9% of the world's animals killed, and basically would have also damaged the natural enviroments for many an animal. (Also would have, unless there were "lucky survivers" end up in a large amount of inbreeding, which you'd soughta expect from the whole Adam and Eve thing too)

Why is Satan considered evil? I have not heard of the passages of the bible which state how Satan killed 99%+ of the world's population. I'm sorry for my ignorance on the subject of the bible but it has many-a-flaw. God created the Heaven and The Earth and then thought "I better check my work to see it's ok. Turn the lights on." (God supposedly creates the Heaven and Earth on the first day, light on the second)

More or less, what constitutes good and evil, do the ends justify the means in christianity? I heard of previously Christians stonned people to death for practising magic, and yet praise Jesus who turned water into wine, miraculously healed the wounded, and so on and so forth. Why is it Jesus then is worshiped, just cause of his father?

By the way, I wish to state now, I don't exactly view things personally as "good" and "evil" due to both being part of one's own opinion. Hitler you see may have thought he was doing good.

I do believe in science much more then I do religion, and to bring up my point, I believe in my own, personal specific religion revolving around Order, Chaos, and Death... and I wouldn't say it's fact (or even say I believe in it 100%), nor would I try to convince someone to join, nor would I preach (and from me, that's just explaining it) to people who don't want to hear, but Christians very often seem to do just that.

It can make it very awkward with some people I know. My sister and her ex for example. When I was visiting her for a while a couple months back, they said grace at the table. That little prayer before dinner, and I felt almost obliged to join in being a guest. I don't feel it's right, for anyone to do, family or otherwise. To almost force someone to participate in their religion.

I will admit, I poke fun at Christians more then people from most other religions, but Christians seem to put it on themselves. No offence, but if you come to my door and preach to me about your religion, I'll take a shot at it. If you're on the corner preaching how you can save me from eternal hellfire, I'll get pissed cause I don't want to hear that. I will admit, not every Christian is like that, and that there are "radical" religions out there, but if christians would sit down, shut up and stay out of other people's religious lives, then I'm sure alot of non-Christians would sit down, shut up and not bad mouth Christians as much.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:44 PM by For(Home)Country

reply to post by LordBucket

The points you present are entirely fair. I could see how you would get flustered with the constant bugging, who wouldn't really? And it wouldn't just have to be religious nagging. And maybe you are right regarding me not seeing some Christians as offensive as you see them. However, what you say I do not see where I come from. (Again, location.) I live in a 'bible belt' but rarely do I hear complaints from others about Christian pestering. In fact, what I hear is mostly positive (but maybe that's selective hearing

) Regardless, I don't think you fully understand the true motives behind someone who asks you to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. I believe that if I were in your position, it would see it as someone merely trying to get brownie points with my God, Church or friends and family. Adding another tally to your conversion list so-to-speak so that your 'reward' in 'heaven' may be larger; it's all self interest. On the contrary, (although I can say quite certainly that I have never encountered you or been with you while trying to be converted otherwise that would be creepy) that maybe a Christian, when trying to 'convert' you, is actually acting out of love. Now, of course if their actions seem to lack love and sincerity behind them, then they are for personal promotion. But if someone approaches you in love, think about this:

Whether you believe it or not, this person does: they don't want you to end up in the wrong place after death. Now, just because you don't accept Christ, does not mean that you are a terrible person. Many people of different beliefs are capable of many great, compassionate things. Yet somehow, this person cares enough for you to try and tell you the good news; Jesus' redemption.

See, I would find that as a form of flattery. Of course, like I said, I have never been in your case. But I believe that as Christians, it is our job to tell others the great news (From what you've said, it seems as if Christianity isn't appealing to you, which I wouldn't blame you for. But I can assure you that it is much more than hollow, religious rules). I'm sure it is annoying, but when done in sincerity and love, it's a very precious moment. Not for self gain, but for the benefit of the individual who has listened to what the other has said. But of course, you may disagree from experience, and that is find. But that's just my take.

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 02:48 PM by crmanager

reply to post by LordBucket

Soo...The repetion is what bothers you? Where do you live? I have NEVER seen an area where Christians are forcibly distributing Bibles. I don't think you do either. Sooo. if it is NOT forced distribution then it is voluntary which means you can say no.

It seems that this has turned into "How have Christians offended me?"

I apologize on behave of them. Bad apples...maybe? Maybe not worthy of dismissing an entire religion?

Again. You are NOT GOING TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING! Stop with that tiresomes phrase. You would say don't condemn all Muslim for 9/11 and 19 on planes.

How about trying duck's thought. YOU start fresh with Christianity and try again.