The desire to destroy Christianity

reply to post by crmanager


S&F for Your perseverance!! But its true that they hate so much its hard to stay cool
All the Best!!

Originally posted by Azuredrake

Originally posted by Psyagra
reply to post by ljib777

 

Yawn ...

That has nothing to do with and makes no reference to Lot boinking his daughters or offering them to be raped.

Ezekiel 25 ...

6 For thus says the Lord GOD: Because you have clapped your hands and stamped your feet and rejoiced with all the malice within you against the land of Israel, 7 therefore, behold, I have stretched out my hand against you, and will hand you over as spoil to the nations; and I will cut you off from the peoples and will make you perish out of the countries; I will destroy you.

You cannot clutch at passages here and there and tie them up for your own convenience ... that is NOT keeping things in context ... and then of course, there is a timeline that you conveniently overlook.

I could go on but I really don't intend on getting stuck on arguing about this stuff ... again. All I want is for people to open their eyes and find their own truth - rather than simply accepting what they are told.

Sheesh ... if we are to believe the Bible, then all of creation is only about 6,015 years old ... come on, you don't really believe this do you?

There is no desire to destroy Christianity ... it is busy doing a splendid job all by itself ... oh and as for prophecies that there will be false prophets in the end days ... of course the perpetrators of the lie knew that people would eventually start waking up to the BS and lay it bare for what it is ... so very ingenious of them to 'predict' then that some time in the future people will debunk the Bible.

History repeats itself and I guarantee you that when this Earth goes through another polar shift or some such that pretty much destroys humanity, there will be a few who will start the whole lie over again to gain control of the emerging populace ... because they've seen it in action and it works ... but only for so long

...and what "your" post conveniently overlooks about Lot is that he was in the presence of angels while gay, violent, drunk men were beating down his door in an attempt to ravage them. I'm sure after speaking with his family, the daughters would have decided to follow their fathers advice and protect "messengers from God". As far as him having sex with his daughters....imagine for a moment whatever country you're in just got blown to hell and there's now not a living soul in any of the 5 cities on the plain (something you'd be familiar with if you knew what the story of Lot was about). They thought they were the "last surviving humans in existance". This is backed by the quote, "We have no other man to lay with AS IS THE CUSTOM OVER ALL THE EARTH".

Doesn't sound too far fetched when you put it into perspective.

Also, the daughters had to get him drunk because they knew he wouldn't have agreed to it, but the daughters felt it was their duty to preserve the human race. Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.


EDIT:

Sheesh ... if we are to believe the Bible, then all of creation is only about 6,015 years old ... come on, you don't really believe this do you.

...yet another falsified generality that the Bible never stated.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Azuredrake]

So... the drunk gay guys are pounding down the door so Lot tells the GIRLS to take one for the team? LOL!!! You are just precious!!

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Angus123]

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Love is the enemy of hate.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Jim Scott]

Love makes no enemies.

Originally posted by WickedStar

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Love is the enemy of hate.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Jim Scott]

Love makes no enemies.

And in Soviet Russia, love hates you!

All I was asking was "Why do you hate Christianity?"

I flew off the handle. Others did too.

We have seen a lot of "My experience is that Christianity did this..."

It is all true. Can we move on past that?

Please?

God loves you. I love you. All of you. Please...can we be respectful to Christians from now on?

Post your conspiracy that "The pope is the Antichrist" or "Christianity and the Bilderbergs." Fine.

Can you just treat us with a little more respect beyond "All religion is retarded?" Do you think that we are not allowed to be insulted?

reply to post by Azuredrake


OK, so the justifications and embellishing will continue regardless ... which is quite understandable in view of the fact that this is just another human condition. People would rather, sometimes foolishly, justify their belief systems than be open to a new perspective that may require a paradigm shift ... this is often too hard for people and they thus cling to that which they thought was true even if they have been presented with alternate points of view or facts.

It was only until Lot granted hospitality to the two angels did he in fact learn they were angels sent to destroy the place and grant Lot refuge in Zoar. With their salvation in the hands of the angels, who in their right mind would let them be violated sexually by a drunk, gay, angry mob? Offering his daughters would have been the most logical thing to do. Two things about this as well: There's nothing to say that this wasn't an empty gesture anyway since Lot knew the men were gay. There's nothing to say hat Lot never had the consent of his daughters before hand either. One who's looking to discredit the Bible however would just gloss over these ideas.

You call this research?! ... This is plain down conjecture and your own baseless opinion. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my previous post - but please explain to me why two angels would require the protection of the likes of Lot. Do you really believe that the baddies could have overpowered the angels - remembering that the angels were capable of rendering them blind ... er ... telepathically?

How do you arrive at the conclusion that the logical choice would be to offer his daughters to be raped by gays/bisexuals ... surely it would have been more fatherly and more brave to go out and take it like a man himself?

You make me laugh ... There is also nothing to say that his daughters did give consent to be raped. Do you have a daughter? Would she offer to be raped instead of two strangers? Mine wouldn't. This may be a moot point if one thinks of that fact that they made their father drunk and then shagged him anyway - so who knows, maybe they were tarts and Lot was just lying about them being virgins. If it was the done thing, why did they have to get him drunk?

Talk about straw ... tsk tsk tsk

It was 4 cities. Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim. It would have been 5 (Zoar) had it not been for Lot's pleading to save any righteous men still living there. This place was known as the Pentapolis. ..and yes, it was large enough that people MIGRATED there to raise families and live out the rest of their days.

2 cities ... 4 cities ... point is, it still wasn't a whole country and certainly not all the people in that region had been wiped out as you tried to put forward in your earlier post. Like the Bible does, you keep contradicting yourself in you attempts to prop up your view of the events. First you say they thought they were the only people left ... then you acknowledge that they knew full well that there were other people around ... which is it?

The village Lot asked to spare was Zoar. It was on the list for destruction, but Lot's only plea was that he have somewhere to go and that any righteous man still living there be saved. No doubt there is an alterior motive in that Lot, not truly living by faith, wanted to stay in the area of fertile land. Lot however, (much like you) underestimated the destruction and ended up living in a cave to get away from the people of Zoar since they were originally as sinful as the rest.

Pretty shifty little dude this Lot must've been to be able to pull the wool over not only the angels' eyes but also God's eyes ... what with, according to you, him being such a bad boy 'n all and managing to bulls#t his way out of going down with the rest of his home city

Remind me again ... why was Lot spared?

Sorry for the double post ... but I just remembered I had this and thought it quite pertinent to this thread ...

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

www.evilbible.com...

Edited to replace the word "idiot" with "person" in 3 above ... sorry - not my words ... something I came across some time ago and though to share it here is all.

[edit on 22/10/2009 by Psyagra]

Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 22/10/2009 by Mirthful Me]

NIce...Your response was mean, nasty, ill-tempered, derogatory and proof that Christians are not the sole source of ill mannered people.

And on that note...thank you all for this wonderful debate.

reply to post by crmanager

NIce...Your response was mean, nasty, ill-tempered, derogatory and proof that Christians are not the sole source of ill mannered people.

And on that note...thank you all for this wonderful debate.

Whoa there crmanager - mean? ... nasty? ... ill-tempered? ... derogatory? ... come on.

None of these fit my frame of mind or disposition when I made any of my posts on your thread and I am really sorry that you took it that way. I was simply responding to your original question ... and subsequently of course to the points that came up in our debate.

The last post - the one you repeated in its entirety in your response - was posted in a more tongue-in-cheek vibe ... but that being so, still doesn't make it any less true ... no?

I have not always had these opinions about the Bible or Christianity - neither have I been influenced by any individual or group of people ... I've been through the mill and even considered becoming a pastor when I was much younger ... a thought that prompted me to do more of my own studying of the Bible ... and what I found and learned resulted in a huge shift in my then belief system.

I continued to search for truth by reading numerous other religions' teachings and scriptures and thus my conclusion that all organized religions are man-made, fear-based and while very loosely founded on historical events, still not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Thank you also for a great debate and I sincerely hope that you will accept that I had no ill intent at any time ... but I do enjoy and kinda view it as one of my tasks to help people to question stuff ... and especially religion because it is such a fundamental and controlling part of peoples' lives.

Surely our creator (not the god of the Bible IMO) would not have given us the ability to question if we were not supposed to question?

PLURAL

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

Exactly. Anyone want to explain how the .01% seem to be mostly rich, happy Christians with full lives and large families? Again, I point out the ones who, when someone like me- dirt poor, No family, no one to love, tell me I am 'expecting God to be a vending machine/ genie' because I prayed for a wife, my financial life to improve (ok, a LOT- I have more repairs than I have $$)- these people telling me this are the ones WITH money, families, a spouse.... Someone please explain this? Is it just hypocrisy?

reply to post by ZenOnKwalsky


Of course I can only speak for myself when I say there is no hatred towards Christians ... everything but.

Perhaps you should examine that feeling you feel deep down when you see or hear someone differing with the Christian doctrine (or any other doctrine for that matter). It is not hatred you are feeling being projected at you - it is that uneasy feeling when you see another perspective of what has been drummed into you forever - that fear you feel when your mind does actually start asking "Hang on ... ?"

I know the feeling from own experience and it is a hard one to crack. But, as they say, the truth shall set you free ... provided you deny ignorance

Edited for punctuation.


[edit on 22/10/2009 by Psyagra]

reply to post by Psyagra


Ok. I will summarize your post in one of YOUR lines...

"Some IDIOT rolling around..."

Your right. No ill feelings there

I feel that worshiping trees or the summer solstice or sheep or the Annunaki or whatever devalues PEOPLE. It creates a world where people see no value in an unborn child but see immeasurable value in an Elm or a carp.

I will bet that many on this site see beauty in the "dirvish" whirling until their euphoria allows them to see their God or the Rasta smoke until their God appears but then people like you see "idiots" when Christians "role on the floor speaking in tongues."

Please do not insult me by saying "I meant no harm" and "idiot" in the same post.

All I want is for the term "idiots" to be put aside when speak about a 2000 year old religion that 1.6 billion people follow. You don't like it? Ok. I will pray for you even if you said you hate me.

reply to post by crmanager

Ok. I will summarize your post in one of YOUR lines... "Some IDIOT rolling around..." Your right. No ill feelings there

I'll bet $$ they saw this on one of those televangelist shows- THEY have idiots rolling around. I went to a live version of an event like that- it was the biggest snake oil show I have EVER seen- no circus, no carnival could possibly do it justice. I had to leave more than once (my ride was still in the place to the bloody, gruesome end, so I couldn't just 'go home'). I ran into a Jewish family... So mad, if a car had hit them, they would have shredded it with their bare hands. They told me WHY they were so upset:

"Our child is in need of healing- and that (evangelist, they called him something in Hebrew I didn't understand, and probably don't want to) decided it was much more worth his time to take up another collection!" The hurt, the upset, and the pure rage were able to be seen very easily. I watched this man slap heads of people who were dressed between ok and there almost in rags- he shouted something unintelligible- But brought the entire show to a STOP for a well dressed, dripping with gold and jewels family who had someone in a wheelchair. Prayed over her for a good 10 minutes- while the poor people got what I call the 'blue plate special'. $1.98, and you get fries and a drink. All I got out of the whole ordeal was a sore head, and a feeling of disgust that made me want to punch the guy leading it so hard in the nose. The whole thing was fake from one end to the other.

I think what some people are getting is these people on these shows- they aren't for real. I'll say people can tell a fake performance, even if they consciously cant even tell exactly why. Therefore, you DO have 'idiots rolling around on the floor babbling incoherently' because THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Are there true gifts? Yah. Are you seeing them in places like PTL or TVN? In a megachurch? I'll bet you $10,000 and a free week at Disney, in 90+% of those cases, NO.

Originally posted by wylekat

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

Exactly. Anyone want to explain how the .01% seem to be mostly rich, happy Christians with full lives and large families? Again, I point out the ones who, when someone like me- dirt poor, No family, no one to love, tell me I am 'expecting God to be a vending machine/ genie' because I prayed for a wife, my financial life to improve (ok, a LOT- I have more repairs than I have $$)- these people telling me this are the ones WITH money, families, a spouse.... Someone please explain this? Is it just hypocrisy?

I think you are very eloquent in your communication skills.

May I ask a question that may upset you? When is the last time you did for others?

"As you sow so shall you reap." Those "Christians who act the way you describe will see their fate soon enough. God will give you back 10 times 10 what you give ( and I am not talking about church donations.)

Forget the "Christians" you are meeting. God has "special plans" for false prophets

God rewards those who help others. Have .50? Give .25 to a homeless person. Got some canned goods. Send them to a shelter. And don't ask God for ANYTHING but peace. He already knows what you need and is waiting to give it to those who deserve it. You are waiting for him to come to you. He never left your side. Just look over and say "hello." The blessing will be beyond belief.

reply to post by crmanager

When is the last time you did for others?

It's been a while... I don't get out much, thanks to the car in the shop. I'd say it's been a few months.

The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

Originally posted by blankduck18
The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

Ya' know..."The Matrix" is just a movie, right? But then again, youcould be describing the Obama Administration

Sorry. It must be tough to be this angry at the world.

reply to post by crmanager


Sorry - I have removed the offending word ... I am not the author of this stuff - I just thought it apt to share on this thread ... seeing as you wanted some questions answered.

I feel that worshiping trees or the summer solstice or sheep or the Annunaki or whatever devalues PEOPLE. It creates a world where people see no value in an unborn child but see immeasurable value in an Elm or a carp.

What makes you think these people see no value in an unborn child?! ... Now you're being downright nasty and not even remotely truthful.

All I want is for the term "idiots" to be put aside when speak about a 2000 year old religion that 1.6 billion people follow. You don't like it? Ok. I will pray for you even if you said you hate me.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." Abraham Lincoln - apparently.

Remember - Just because many people say something is true, does not make it so.

I'm outa here now ... later ...

PEACE


[edit on 22/10/2009 by Psyagra]

Originally posted by crmanager

Originally posted by blankduck18
The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

Ya' know..."The Matrix" is just a movie, right? But then again, youcould be describing the Obama Administration

Sorry. It must be tough to be this angry at the world.

Says the one that has been sitting on this thread for 4 days fighting the answers you asked for
Arrogance

reply to post by wylekat

The blessing will be beyond belief.

What I have right now is a dual mess of blessing/ curses that is really just odd.

I'll try to keep this as short as possible:

Almost every year, since I had something so bad happen on My bday in Oct 20 ish years ago, it actually did something to me spiritually. Oct- about Mid Feb is what I have deemed Disaster Time. It's not my own doing- stuff just happens in thick, fast waves during this time. I am talking over the top BAD things. Consistently.

This year- the parade started with my car going belly up, my 3d computer going belly up- BUT... As I was leaving the computer shop after having it diagnosed, and trudging along in the rain, I find $60! I jump online, find a new motherboard, add thermal grease- price? Almost EXACTLY $60. New board shows up, I put it in, Nothing. TOAST. I take it to to the computer shop. Price? $140-ish to put in a new board. I got tired really quick of getting stuff sent, and having to trade it out, send it back, pay for shipping... that deal woulda cost me upwards of $90+ at that rate.. I am hoping the video card didn't suffer... That's another $150 or so, too.

The car? Not repairable permanently (several HUNDRED), but it'll do quite well as is. $75, and I can drive home next month.

Bummed out, I came home. Got my power bill. How much do I owe? $0. Yup. Ya read it right. Seems my deposit was refunded as a credit on my power bill. $250. If temperatures hold, I can go no power bill for another month or 2, or another month and a reeeally small bill. So, I'll have $$ to spread to the computer. Plus, the motherboard's being returned, so I am getting most of the $$ back from that.

I admit to doing something radically different in my life... it doesn't make a lick of sense (and if I explained it, people would think I'm a nutburger, to say the least), But God wanted me to do this, so I did... I only resisted for 2 decades... It's still a struggle to accept it at times, but I do my best to try. And it still doesn't make so much as an ounce of sense. I'd rather not say what it is, because I'll make a complete mess of explaining it, and I just probably cant anyways.

So... this Disaster Time, it's been wham, bad, and then, a good thing is nearly right on it's heels, cleaning up the mess. Keep in mind, I am on a fixed income (disability), and finding part time work is right at impossible- no car, lousy economy. I am kinda oping this turns into a full out blessing, and a few things I have hoped to have accomplished, WILL BE. Fully. No deviations, substitutions, or 'fractional blessings'- where I end up with only part of what I need, and the rest is a nice, long, uphill struggle with no end or solution in sight.