A serious flaw in the bible...

Originally posted by PSUSA
reply to post by CHA0S

 

The bible says the Earth is around 6000 to 10,000 years old.

Really? Where does it say that? Good luck finding it.

Next, you build that strawman argument and then say:

There are a few obvious problems here...which I want to discuss. Firstly...carbon-dating. It is accurate in dating objects as old as 60,000 years old from what I've heard

That is not the Bibles "problem". Frankly, the "young earth creationists" viewpoint is the problem and is total nonsense IMO. It's also a non-issue as far as the faith goes.

So...what say you Christians?

So you "challenge" Christians to answer it? You thought "Aha! I got 'em now!", right? Wrong.



[edit on 20/10/09 by PSUSA]

There isn't a date mentioned saying the earth is 6,000 years old. That number comes from people doing the math implied in the text. So and so begat so and so, who begat so and so going all the way back to Adam.

It's all rubbish of course, but it's one of the main pillars of fundamentalist dogma.

Originally posted by ooomonkeys
With all of the strange laws littered within the Old Testament. Why did God ever find those laws to be acceptable?

These laws were given by God to Moses. Moses wrote word-by-word the whole Old Testament because God dictated it to him. These laws were given to the Jews so that the people would not anger God after he saved them from the slavery of Egypt.

Since Jesus died on the cross we no longer have to follow them anymore?

The Christians/Catholics believe they no longer have to follow the Old Testament because of what the New Testament implies. They think that because Jesus died for their sins that they are exempt from the old rules.

However, Judaism (The Jews) still stick to the Old Testament because they do not believe Jesus was God. This is very ironic because the Jews were given the Old Testament; they should have known God best of all. It says in the OT to not follow anyone that claimed to be God and could do miracles. As far as I am concerned, they followed the rules and ignored Jesus. Ever wonder why Jesus is called "King of the Jews"?

Did an all-knowing & all-powerful God change his mind on how he wants his children to act?

According to Judaism no. According to Christians and alike yes. According to me, God loves everybody and so it doesn't matter.

What of the sexist laws that can be found in the New Testament, are we not supposed to follow those? Why not?

I don't understand the question.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by nightmarehalo]

reply to post by Albastion

I suggest you read my posts on page 7...both your arguments have been addressed...

reply to post by Angus123

Same answer...

[edit on 21/10/09 by CHA0S]

Have a look at the Earth: surfacemonkey.com...

I can answer your questions.

The OP argued that the Earth is/is not 6000 or so years old.

Yes, it is.

Have another look at the Earth in that photo.

Ask yourself this: What do you believe God is? Do you believe God made the Universe? If so, do you believe that He could make the Earth appear to be old? Can a painter make a painting appear to be old? Can a makeup artist make an actress appear to be old? Yet God cannot? Don't you think that is a little absurd? Of course He can.

How did it happen?

In the beginning there was God. There was no space, no time, no matter, no energy. Only God.

God then began Time, opened up a vacuum we call Space, and created the Earth covered in water. He then created Light without shadow or source at surface. He did this with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

He did this on the one first day, a 24 hour Earth day, comprised of one evening and one morning. There is scientific evidence that He did this in two Earth minutes, as evidenced at www.halos.com. However, He created it aged.

As each day progressed, He created the entire creation in successive 24 hour days, each composed of an evening and a morning. Today, the Hebrews believe that a day begins at sunset.

Scientific evidence proves that the Earth is aged. Christians believe the Earth is aged, also, since it would be imprudent to argue with the facts. I believe the Earth shows it is aged 4.5 billion years, however I also believe it was made in less than two minutes around 6,000 years ago.

First, we know that there is no evidence that cannot be made by God.

Would this be considered a deception? Of course. In fact, it is a choice. You are provided a choice: believe God, or don't believe God. The same choice was given to Adam and Eve. They also failed. So, welcome to humanity.

God provides a choice to you to see if you love Him and will follow Him, or if you will follow those who would steer you away from Him:

Deut 13: 1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.




[edit on 21-10-2009 by Jim Scott]

reply to post by CHA0S


i didn't have an argument about the word "day"
in fact, i had an argument about the word tohu.
and the word "was"
it should read, "and the earth became a wasteland, and void;"

this is called the gap. so regardless of what else happens after, the beginning is not when the planet is re-made.

who knows, maybe the earth wasn't the only thing in a quandry. a planetary disaster could wreak havoc on more than just the earth. the entire solar system may have been in upheaval at one point.

the angels were created first, and one of them was called the serpent (which, by the way, is the name of an entire race of angels, called seraphim (plural. singular, seraph).. they are serpents. and who is the serpent? he's the great red dragon. and what is a dragon? obviously a reptile. and what was on this planet in vast numbers and sizes before humans? lots of reptiles. how did their part come to an end? an ice age (perhaps a sun problem? or the earth was moved out of its orbit, we don't know! you have to understand the text is just telling you what happens to humans and very little is mentioned about the angels or what came before.






[edit on 21-10-2009 by undo]

reply to post by Jim Scott


"Scientific evidence proves that the Earth is aged. Christians believe the Earth is aged, also, since it would be imprudent to argue with the facts. I believe the Earth shows it is aged 4.5 billion years, however I also believe it was made in less than two minutes around 6,000 years ago. "

The earth was created old? I've heard about people wanting it both ways, but I've never seen a more crystal clear example of someone trying to hold onto two opposing ideas at the same time.

But I have to ask... where did you get the two minute time span?

Originally posted by exposethosesecrets
What if there was a great fire on earth, and carbon developed faster, making carbon dating look much older.

Carbon dating keeps debunking itself

Not gonna say it...

You need to read a factual book, preferably labeled ecological exchange or science even.

Seriously - I mean it sounds like a caveman some how got internet access just for a one off ATS riff. I only point this out because your statement is so atrociously false it should win a medal!

Just to remind you (not Jesus sanctioned) but carbon dating refers to deterioration not development.

does your watch keep accurate time?

Then carbon dating is just fine.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Janky Red]

About that toxic oceans, I never understood why they should be toxic after a few bilions of years.

Most of the toxins in cumulating in arctic area are man-made, which means that they are cumulating inly for a few hundred years at most.

Things like sedimentation and many organisms are continously cleaning them.

On the other hand, the arguments in the OP - carbon and many other datings and ability to see stars - seems solid and prove that Creation is much older.

Btw Id like to remind you that carbon dating can date only organic matter, so using it to date rocks is not reliable.

reply to post by Angus123

The two minute time span is at www.halos.com. The rainbow halo around polonium in granite is only formed in a 90 second period, and only stays in the granite if it is cooled in that 90 seconds. Virtually all the granite on Earth cooled in 90 seconds.

reply to post by Angus123


Angus, are you a Christian?
second line

reply to post by nightmarehalo


Thank you nightmarehalo.

Just a couple more.

Why did an all-powerful all-knowing God change his laws? Did he make a mistake? So what laws are we supposed to follow now?

The New Testament laws that I was referring to can be found here

www.biblegateway.com...:34-35&version=NIV

www.biblegateway.com...:9-15&version=NIV

Since these passages are found in the New Testament, why are they not followed in present day churches?

I apologize for being inarticulate in my first post.

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by Albastion

 

I suggest you read my posts on page 7...both your arguments have been addressed...

reply to post by Angus123

 

Same answer...

[edit on 21/10/09 by CHA0S]

You are still making the assumption that the 7 days were 7 Earth days when you cite your timeline.

Does the concept of "days" even make sense when the Earth doesn't exist/hasn't been created yet?

You can link to as many web pages as you want, but that doesn't mean that the content of those web pages reflects the content of the Bible itself. Your thread is called "a serious flaw in the Bible." Although some of the thinking of some individuals who run their own web sites might be flawed, that has nothing to do with the Bible.

Originally posted by Angus123
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

But I have to ask... where did you get the two minute time span?

Well I suspect god was on the pot squeezing one off while smoking a god sized Camel non filter when the cherry got stuck on the TP, which in turn fell to the marble floor, thus creating the universe as we know it.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
reply to post by Angus123

 

Angus, are you a Christian?
second line

No... and I understand where you're headed. Jesus was both God and man. So I stand corrected. I have seen a more crystal clear example of two opposing ideas held at the same time.

Originally posted by octotom
How in the world do you get that? Here is the verse again, Isaiah 55.8:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts; neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.

This verse is so straight forward, it requires virtually no interpretation.

1. God doesn't think like we humans do. (For my thoughts are not your thoughts)
2. The way that God does things isn't the way that we has humans would do things. (Neither are your ways my ways)

1. God may think like we humans do, or God may not. Likewise, I may think like you do, or I may not.
2. The way that I does things may not be the way that you would do things.

I don't see how that verse can be valid for God only. It is valid to virtually anybody. It simply says that people are individuals.

Please, explain.

Yes, please explain.

2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Just sayin!

A serious flaw in...your argument...

What I was always taught is that God is beyond our comprehension and beyond our human understanding, a day to God could be a hundred million years to us, who knows...or maybe they used word day to describe a period of time, since significant things happened during these periods, so they called them days...

The truth is nobody knows...does the Earth's creation affect my faith or my opinion of the Bible? Nope...and it shouldn't be of great concern to anybody in my opinion...

Originally posted by Angus123

Originally posted by Jim Scott
reply to post by Angus123

 

Angus, are you a Christian?
second line

No... and I understand where you're headed. Jesus was both God and man. So I stand corrected. I have seen a more crystal clear example of two opposing ideas held at the same time.

Actually, that thought never entered my head. I was going to show you an illustration of how Jesus showed you and I that the creation was made in six days. However, as a non-Christian, it is unlikely that you would find it relevant.

reply to post by CHA0S


OK. I understand what you are saying. You are saying that if it wasn't mentioned in the Bible it didn't happen. If this is the case then you are correct. And for that matter, the chronological order makes sense so maybe the Bible really does state that the Earth is only 6000 years old. But it is implied and not directly stated. I don't see how you can get hooked on something that is already so highly debated. I bet less than 10% of the world really believes it, or even knows about it.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by RoyalCanadian

 

it's not flawed, just misunderstood and occassionally mistranslated into english from the original texts. the gist of it is what we are supposed to get:

be kind.
be civil.
be charitable.
be steadfast.
be honest.
be honorable.
eat right.
live clean.
don't make oaths (which falls under the be honorable part, or as yoda would say, do or do not, there is no try).
be good.

that kinda thing.

That's what my mother used to tell me. I don't need the bible for that.