A serious flaw in the bible...

Originally posted by CHA0S

The bible says the Earth is around 6000 to 10,000 years old.

I request that the OP correct this erroneous statement.

If the OP does not, then I request that the administrators of this website, Abovetopsecret.com, remove this thread from any general or accepted discussion and discuss with CHA0S the rules of posting.

As this thread stands, this should be in the [HOAX] category.

I also request that the OP begin a new thread with a factual premise for a discussion that might take a similar course. I refuse to tell the OP how this is possible, but it is.

Deny ignorance.

reply to post by WickettheRabbit


is this the doc or is it the professor i love the quote from dune -I WILL NOT FEAR.no truer words have been spoken as this your passage quoted .it reminds me of another great quote -
yea though i walk through the valley of the shadow of death [ i shall not fear]the nest word should read -anything - especially the lies in the book -remember they the priests and their minions called the Gideon society were told that they were never to change or alter anything in these books so why did they rewrite it and change it at their own whim and fancy.
1] there are 9 letters above the Christs head on the cross in the pre 1939 editions of the bible and the great churches erased it and put 4 letters there their excuse was this is the truth and that which is old is a lie ,ps they did it when i was a kid and i watched them do it.publicly they stated this to the world ---- in other words believe us in blind faith as we are doing gods work ,gag.blind faith are called mindless SHEEP in the good book.
-----the deadly 9 are first line nairb second line is reep.this is the sign that is the name of the king of kings or so we were all told so what are they hiding,TRUTH is not their lies.
2]it states that the money lenders were in the church-question what happens if they are not in the church but they are THE CHURCH.
REMEMBER THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR THEY BECAME TO RICH AND POWERFUL SO THE CHURCH BROUGHT IN THE MILITARY'S TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR OPPOSITION through a good king.
3]though shall not kill and the church has bloodied its hands on every other nation -salem witch hunts -native Americans-the crusades and so on through out history but they the men of the cloth have done no wrong or so they say.they have been absolved of their sins or so they say not likely.
4] how many centuries have we been told to believe in their god saying that all that they have done wrong is in the name of god -his name was not FEAR we were all taught he was the god of LOVE.and COMPASSION AND UNDERSTANDING AND WISDOM - not the mindless little SHEEP who blindly follow without questioning their own selves.
FEAR and TERROR are their greatest weapons and they have been using them for many centuries to control you the worlds people , WAKE-UP ALL
5] remember that they were the only ones other than kings and queens who were taught to read and write for how many centuries and that we the uneducated were keep in the dark-ages of stupidity by them,we are the unclean and the unfit that we were beneath them and their so called wisdom,ask Copernicus and gallaleao and all other great minds why they were called witches and sorcerers and hunted down ,it was because they dared to question the churches absolute bull.
6] why is it that the planets have always been listed as if you were coming in from the stars and not from here outwards from the very beginning in the bible.
7] so why is it that the children of the world were taught to use their minds only to be shot and killed in their great halls of learning[KENT STATE] bible .because we dared to question and call them on their fallacies -and who was it that stood on the steps of your own governmental buildings when they called us long haired,drug crazed , hippie killing satanist freaks .when all we wanted was peace and the wars to stop ops there is great profit in war ask the churches of the world considering that they own the vast majority of shares in most huge corporations example-955 OF ALL OF BELL CANADAS shares are owned by the CATHOLIC church AND THAT LIST IS ENDLESS .beware the false profits as they are only in it for money .
the us government
the heads of the christian church
the police
the military and so on .
---in other wards believe what we PREACH to you or we will kill you-but their hands are clean as they never pulled the trigger they had others do it for them-BRAVE AREN'T THEY]
8] ask your priests any of these questions and you will be told it is gods work or it is gods will and if they don't answer they will tell you leave my church if you do not believe what i teach[PREACH] to you as they fear the truth far greater than we do .it is time to empty the heretics pews and search for the truth and it is not their lies.
9]where are the books of the 2 Mary`s .
10]where is the book of Christs betrayer considering that he was in actual fact the Christ`s best friend or was it best man
11] and where exactly have the actual books of the Christs actual teachings disappeared to -remember his words-be as i have been ,learn as i have learned and become what i have become.it cant happen as the church saw fit to either erase or destroy them so that we can never learn what we were told to learn-this way we have to always bow down to them and worship the ground that they walk upon-i chose freedom instead .i will not follow as a sheep ,i do not bow to anyone .

it seems that we have lost our proper perspective of all things as we seem to have a god complex-we are the god and we seem to think that we can do whatever we want when ever we want and we answer to no one for our ways.
be excellent to all -do unto others as you would like others to treat you.

the Armageddon and the rapture ,what are these 2 things ,it would not be the day our governments unleash hells fire and brimstone upon the earth-
NUCLEAR WAR to destroy all of us the sinners who dared to stand up to them without FEAR.who dared to question their AUTHORITY as gods unto their own selves in their own pissant little minds as they believe that they are intelligent beings . so what fool destroys all life here to cleanse the world in the false belief that they are doing it in the gods name -[my god is not called EVIL only men are EVIL.
THE WORSE PART IS THAT WE THE PEOPLE HAVE PAID FOR OUR OWN SPECIES DEMISE THROUGH OUR TAX DOLLARS FOR THE ARMAGEDDON.
nuclear warfare.

all of this out of their own FEAR that we will some day learn the truth that they are all wrong and all we want Is the right to live life without FEAR and TERROR knowing in our hearts the we will wake up tomorrow and that we will still be here as a species because we did not do the ultimate sin [DESTROY THIS OUR WORLD AND FUTURE ] IN THIS WAY WE WILL FULFILL OUR DESTINY- WHICH WAS TO RETURN TO THE STARS .

reply to post by undo


"i know you know it's true. they aren't laws, their guidelines for living. "

Oh they were very much laws, and are worded as such, in the OT.

Hence the reason it's often referred to as Old Testament Law.

It's clearly law when the penalties are precisely outlined for failure to follow them.

The Old Law was not intended to be loosely interpreted as a guideline or spiritual advisory..at least not at its conception. That is your own forgiveness Undo. A way to reconcile with your inner moral compass perhaps.

there are numerous contradictions in the bible and in the beliefs of christians and most religions for that matter. the bible, koran, torah ect.... were all written by man...even todays bible is far from what it originally was. King James re-wrote it, so lots of the original meaning was lost in translation. and who knows how many times it was translated before that....and who knows how many of the men that wrote it manipulated it to make people believe their own views...

reply to post by chrisd250


Oh there were many translations before, and many after King James. So meanings have been twisted before and after him. The King James translation was made (conspiracy aside) for the same reason earlier and later translations were made; to keep up with the modern language.

reply to post by silver tongue devil


gosh, if you read it again, i was referring to them being ot material to begin with but that jesus said similar things. in his case, they were not suggested as laws. they were examples of how to live. unless you mean to say jesus was teaching us to follow mosaic law? they asked. he said, those two commandments were the most important. and what are the rest? and are we supposed to live by them as per the law? no, we are supposed to live by them because we want to, not because they are the law.

anyway, first she thinks i'm talking about nt when i'm talking about ot. then you think i'm talking about ot, when i'm talking about nt. lol
oy. i guess i have to explain myself better

reply to post by TarzanBeta


Biblical Age of Earth

Beginning with the archeological landmark event of the fall of Jerusalem (which has now been corrected to 588 B.C., instead of 586-587 B.C.) and counting backwards the prophesied number of years between this event and the division of Solomon's kingdom (390 yrs. + 40 yrs., according to Ezekiel 4:4-7), brings us to 1018 B.C.

From the end of Solomon's 40-year reign to the start of the Temple in the 4th year of his reign takes us back another 37 years to 1055 B.C.

From the start of Solomon's Temple "in the 480th year" (1 Kings 6:1) back to the Exodus from Egypt (hence 479 years previous) brings us to near 1534 B.C.

From the Exodus out of Egypt to Abraham's entering Canaan from Haran was exactly 430 years to the day (Gen 12:10/ Exodus 12:40/ Gal 3:17), thus around 1964 B.C.

Since Abraham entered Canaan at age 75 (Gen 12:4), he was born approximately 2039 B.C.

From Abraham's birth to Noah's grandson (Shem's son), Arpachshad's birth, 2 years after the Flood started, was 290 years (Gen 11:11-26), this places the onset of the Flood at around 2331 B.C. [definitely 4,300-4,400 years ago].

The genealogy of Genesis 5:3-32 precludes any gaps due to its tight chronological structure and gives us 1,656 years between Creation and the Flood, thus bringing Creation Week back to near 3987 B.C. or approximately 4000 B.C.

Therefore, the biblical age of the Earth (using Scripture itself as a guide) is 6,000 years !!

Is the bible clear about the age of the earth and universe?

Most Christians have heard the argument that the word “day” in Genesis does not mean a literal 24 hour type day, but rather that the “days” represent 6 great ages of time. This is often referred to as the day-age theory. Many people have wondered whether this argument is valid. It is true, after all, that the Hebrew word for day (yom) can have several different meanings, depending upon its context. However, it is our opinion that when all the facts are gathered, it is abundantly clear that God communicated with precision that all creation took place during the time period of six, normal, 24-hour type days.

*

The Hebrew word for day (yom) can have several different meanings. The meaning is always clear when read in context.
*

The first reference to “day” in the creation account is in the context of a 24 hour cycle of light and dark, “And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day” (NASV, see Genesis One).
*

When the word “day” is used with a number, such as day one, day two, etc., it always refers to a literal, 24 hour type day. This is true 100% of the time. This holds true all 359 times that “day” is used with an ordinal modifier (number) outside of Genesis chapter 1.
*

There is no Biblical indication that “day” is used differently in the beginning chapter of Genesis than it is throughout the rest of the book, or the rest of the Old Testament.
*

The “days” in Genesis 1 are always specifically used in connection with the words “evening and morning.” This phrase is used with “day” 38 times in the Old Testament, not counting Genesis chapter 1. Each time, without exception, the phrase refers to a normal 24 hour type day. It is also important to note that this phrase is never used in the Old Testament in a manner which is obviously metaphoric.

[url=http://www.bible.ca/tracks/dp-age-bible.htm]Biblical Age of the Earth

First of all, the Bible does NOT say how old the Earth is. I noticed how you failed to make a reference to any dates in the Bible but instead just referenced word of mouth.

Second, the Bible is most likely a metaphor. Jordan Maxwell can educate you there.

reply to post by nightmarehalo


There you go...my above post was edited to include dates and the such...enjoy...

Originally posted by imd12c4funn

Originally posted by CHA0S

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

...
But hold on..."In the beginning"...so was it the beginning or not? Was it the creation of the heavens and the Earth or not? Get your story straight...and you can't say it shouldn't be taken literally...either everything in the bible is absolute truth, or we can't trust any of it.

...

What about star light?If we were to assume that the Bible was God's perfect revelation, but that the light from the stars was deceiving us, how could we trust such a God's written revelation? For if God's physical evidence is deceptive, could not the written evidence also be deceptive?

So...what say you Christians?

It is simple.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Right?

But if you continue through the 2nd and 3rd verse;

2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

Source

And that explains that.

When God commanded there be light, there was light.

What's so flawed now?

Well, God's spirit hover over the water could be his spaceship, the ligths could be searchlighs or some thing, like the trumpets, could that be loudspeaker?? ( speaking trumps ?)

Light could be, as on some moons of jupiter had a icy sphere around, sound wierd, but no one was here to observe it, well, obviously it was, but they couldnt write it in plain and simple understanding....

Maybe the earth didnt rotate or earth was farther out in the solar system until the crash (big bang )..

[edit on 21/10/2009 by ChemBreather]

reply to post by CHA0S


that's not the age of the earth. that's the beginning of the human dispensation. there's a difference.

reply to post by undo

that's not the age of the earth. that's the beginning of the human dispensation. there's a difference.

And we go back to square one..."In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth." It wasn't just the start of mankind...HE CREATED EARTH, IN THE BEGINNING, AS WELL AS THE HEAVENS, WHICH HE ALSO REFERRED TO AS THE SKIES. He did it in 6 days, and from my previous post, you can see your argument about the word "day" is now seriously flawed...

[edit on 21/10/09 by CHA0S]

reply to post by CHA0S


Oh, I see what you are saying. You are saying that there is no way it could have been created in 6-7 days (depending on how you look at it). In that case, I agree with you.

But the whole 6,000 - 10,000 years is all BS. It's just word of mouth from people trying to decipher something that simply isn't there. There is no mention of anything other than days.

reply to post by nightmarehalo

Oh, I see what you are saying. You are saying that there is no way it could have been created in 6-7 days (depending on how you look at it).

Not at all...if such a God did exist...it's quite possible he could achieve such a thing...I'm merely stating the Earth is a lot older than 10,000 years...and the bible contradicts that...

Since it seems that there are many Christians here I would like to ask a few honest questions that I have had for quite some time now.

With all of the strange laws littered within the Old Testament. Why did God ever find those laws to be acceptable? Since Jesus died on the cross we no longer have to follow them anymore? Did an all-knowing & all-powerful God change his mind on how he wants his children to act? What of the sexist laws that can be found in the New Testament, are we not supposed to follow those? Why not?

These are honest questions, I do not have an ulterior motive. Thank you very much for any responses.



[edit on 21-10-2009 by ooomonkeys] spelling

[edit on 21-10-2009 by ooomonkeys]

The bible never states an age of the Earth. This thread is based on a totally flawed premise.

Generally speaking, if you want to point out a flaw that is allegedly in the Bible, it might help to quote the book itself rather than relying on "what you think" the Bible says.

It's also worthwhile to point out that not all Christians are young-Earth creationists... those are actually a small subgroup of all Christians.

Either way, you are in no position to to point out flaws in the Bible because you clearly don't even know what's in the Bible itself. If I were you I would start by actually reading it.

You may not believe it, but every question you are likely to have concerning the Bible has been asked and answered many times over, throughout the millennia.

"In the beginning" is not specific. In the beginning of what? Of the Universe, or just of the Earth? The Universe might have existed for eons before the "beginning" of planet Earth.

There is a whole school of thought that says that in between the first two sentences of the Bible, there was a long history of a pre-Adamic race that was eventually wiped out by God. The justification of this is that "in the beginning God created...", and then "And the Earth was without form and void", which was what was left after God erased the failed civilization. Supposedly there were many thousands of years between the two sentences. Whatever, just saying that nothing in the Bible specifically forbids this interpretation.

The Bible is only flawed if you try to consider it as the only inerrant word of God, that everything in the Bible is literally true exactly as written. Then you've got some problems. The problems arise, *NOT* because the Bible contradicts what science claims. Science, after all, could be wrong. The problems arise because the Bible contradicts itself.

Just a simple example. In the King James Version of the Bible, it says, "Thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20:13). However, it also says that you *must* kill certain sinners and lawbreakers. "Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death." (Exodus 35:2). So you've got a prohibition against killing, and in the same book (Exodus), a command to kill someone who breaks a rule.

The solution to this problem is simple. It doesn't say "thou shalt not kill", it says, "thou shalt not *murder*". That's different. Unfortunately, this means that the King James translation of the Bible is incorrect. Now you've got a serious problem, because you have to find a translation of the Bible that is correct. How? How can you know that any particular translation is correct? You really can't. You have to believe what someone else tells you, and since they're human, they could be wrong. In fact, there may not actually be a translation of the Bible that is without errors, since the translators are all fallible humans.

About your only hope is to learn the ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek languages and hope you can learn them well enough to read the texts properly. Not likely, since scholars don't even agree on many of the ancient word meanings or language constructs.

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by undo

 

that's not the age of the earth. that's the beginning of the human dispensation. there's a difference.

And we go back to square one..."In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth." It wasn't just the start of mankind...HE CREATED EARTH, IN THE BEGINNING, AS WELL AS THE HEAVENS, WHICH HE ALSO REFERRED TO AS THE SKIES. He did it in 6 days, and from my previous post, you can see your argument about the word "day" is now seriously flawed...

[edit on 21/10/09 by CHA0S]

What makes you think a day for God is the same thing as a day for man? Do you really think that God and man would experience time in the same way?

Originally posted by Vipassana
good point, but using logic to argue against illogical people generally does not work. Christians will generally dodge the argument and avoid the evidence all together.

If logical people are as logical as they say they are, then being aware of the fact that humans are sentient life-forms should of already proven that statement false.

Just because one society or culture differs from one's own doesn't make them illogical. Their logic has simply been rooted differently.

Furthermore, assuming history and probability is still a factor to reality... scientific theories are BOUND to change. At least Christians are more aware of their capabilities of understanding unlike a certain arrogant society who's belief systems will eventually be debunked and modified by their predecessors. Despite their dogmatic nature of big-bang and evolution.

One glitch perhaps though is that science has not separated the observer from the observed. Can we know for sure that the Universe is as old as science suggests without observing it?

Which is exactly why I said what I said. Not to pick on you specifically, but you simply had the means I needed to communicate a point.

You will never know, you can simply have faith (or not) on what you have decided to believe in

....as for the TOPIC is concerned.
These are old deputes that have gone on for decades. You'll simply receive re-occurring answers.

It's obvious the OP is just wanted to start a debate. Which is fine, but not something I'm willing to contribute. Its one thing when you question something for the sake of enlightenment but it's another when it's simply demanding opposition to challenge a group or society for the sake of proving/disproving.


...and for the Christians
Take heed what Jesus said.

"Those who have ears, let them hear."
Don't pull out scriptures as a method of persuading someone who doesn't find them to be credible information for the truth.

You either have to let God do the work, or you fight on their grounds... which is with the use of 'facts and theories' through the use of reason and logic.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by GambitVII]

First of all ty good post!

I would like to say DON`T use the bible all the time to: Bible said this Bible said that, it`s hilarious...
It is today known to most that the so called Bible is a replica from the older Sumerian, Egyptian, and other pagan religions which is much much older, and it is certain that it is a recycled myth. This goes for the TORA and the Koran to.

just another source

Then what about the Nazarene? well he was probably a very emphatic but humane and smart person but very inconvenient to the power elite at that time so he paid the ultimate price.

This universe and the planets in our solar system is very old, this everyone knows by know, claiming something else is like to go back and say "that the earth is flat"

how old is our Earth?