Meet the Senators in the Creepy Right-Wing Cult Trying to Defeat Health Care Reform

Originally posted by Rhetoric

A CHOICE of a non-profit public option IS NOT a "government take over of health care"

Go ahead with all the "slippery slope" arguments you want, but the facts do not support that assertion.

We NEED a non-profit public option as a CHOICE.

A choice of a non-profit public option is a step in the direction of government run health care. It would give the government more power to influence health care and our economy.

If you have been paying attention to the current struggles of the health care proposals you would also have noticed that Dems are willing to forgoe the public option.

www.politico.com...#
www.cnbc.com...#

We do not need a public option. We need reforms that do not increase the government presence in our lives.


[edit on 20-10-2009 by Bugman82]

Originally posted by Artephius Abraxas Helios
reply to post by chrisd250
Wow, you're so right. I forgot how in Great Britain no one smokes or drinks or plays any sports. They all just sit around waiting for Big Brother to tell them what to do next, and it's really all because their social medicine programs have made them a socialist state.

Do you have any idea how paranoid you sound. Get over your irrational fears. First this thread is not about "spoooky sooocialismmm," it's about "The Family." Second, even if it was about Socialism, your over-simplistic views on what socialism consists of are inherently false and add nothing to the discussion. Does the fact that we give our Veterans socialized care through VA hospital take away your freedoms one iota? Do you honestly believe that medicare for the elderly or medicaid for the disabled is something that shames the soldiers that fought and died for your "freedoms"???? I think not, and thus your biased political rhetoric rings hollow. These measures do not affect your freedom or mine. Neither will a public option, or health insurance reform. Learn the difference in social measures taken to better serve a public and capital "S" Socialism. Then learn why you really hate "Socialism" so much. History can be your friend.

-Peace
AAH





[edit on 20-10-2009 by Artephius Abraxas Helios]

the british government is in almost every area of their lives over there...i didnt say it was from health care, all im saying is its a step in the wrong direction to allow the gov another vehicle by which to enslave a supposedly free country...and yes we do allready have some forms of socialized care, but not nearly on the scale of what is currently being introduced....controlling a small part of the population is not what they want...this is a power grab to control us all....imo if this passes i suspect within the next 10 years you WILL be told what u can and cannot eat, injest, take part in ect...

Originally posted by AnnieNakki
What I want to know is why there is the mad rush to pass this health care stuff.....poll after poll shows most Americans are happy with their health care....poor people already get free health care....so do illegal immigrants. It is illegal to turn poor people away from hospitals.

Look closely. Polls are most often "sponsored", that means the people paying for the polls have final edit on how the question is asked or phrased.

They can conduct the poll at given times to reach given demographics. Ditto with geography. If the pollster wants repeat business and with what big pharma pays them...believe me they want repeat business...they will make sure to not poll geographies that have high unemployment or call durring work hours when the unemployed might answer the phone.

Some polls are reliable...but look close at the source and stats of the poll and who it was sponsored by.

Me personally...I have children. My daughter had a proceedure earlier this year and we maxed out her deductable...whoopie! no more deductable for the year! Then last month she stopped breathing, we called our local emergency number, the paramedics came, she went to the hospital...long story short...she is fine.

Last week I got a bill for the ambulance...$650...to me, not the insurance.
I called my insurer which I pay a pretty penny for and the insurance company (Unicare) denied the bill because the ambulance company was "out of network"...the ambulance when we called 911.

The insurance company would have rather had us pull out our policy manual and search for an "in-network" ambulance service rather than call 911...while my daughter was on the floor not breathing. Again...she is fine now.

Well out of curiousity...after I talked to the insurance company...I looked up network providers and my insurance company doesn't even have an "in network" Ambulance service ...not just in my state, but the entire country!

According to the Ambulance service (when I called them) Insurance companies ...all of them...do not consider any ambulance services as "in-network"...if you have a PPO, which most people do...ask your insurance company about coverage for an ambulance ride.

This week they raised my premium by about 150 a month...no explanation.

AND I AM INSURED. Tell me again how wonderful our insurance industry is...This is just one recent example in my world.

I won't even go into how my and other insurance companies have refused to cover my wife for an insanely silly reason. Last year we paid for her appendectomy out of pocket.

They do things like this a million times a day, not to mention dropping folks when they get sick..a very, very common practice.

It is not just the uninsured who are getting beat up, it is everyone.

I am not convinced that reform will fix everything that is wrong in the system...but honestly, seriously it is impossible for them to do worse.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by maybereal11]

reply to post by grover


The Family and their roots are nothing but pure evil. Maybe Obama is the second coming of the Messiah.

Since posting this I have read some more on the family and from what I can garner it has less to with religion and specifically Christianity than even this article suggests.

It is little more a veneer of faith to support supply side economics and the ruling elite...using the language of faith as an excuse for power.

Like I said in the OP...nothing new...just a little more baldly blatant than some...

still I do not like closed door brokers...it is the antithesis of democracy.

Originally posted by Bugman82

Originally posted by Rhetoric

A CHOICE of a non-profit public option IS NOT a "government take over of health care"

Go ahead with all the "slippery slope" arguments you want, but the facts do not support that assertion.

We NEED a non-profit public option as a CHOICE.

A choice of a non-profit public option is a step in the direction of government run health care. It would give the government more power to influence health care and our economy.

If you have been paying attention to the current struggles of the health care proposals you would also have noticed that Dems are willing to forgoe the public option.

www.politico.com...#
www.cnbc.com...#

We do not need a public option. We need reforms that do not increase the government presence in our lives.


[edit on 20-10-2009 by Bugman82]

quoting only a small portion of my statement in order to further your argument, can be considered a bit dishonest, don't you think?

I'm not trying to start "something" with you BM, just trying to have an HONEST debate.

Having choices, one of which being a non-profit OPTION, is in no way a "government takeover" of anything, if anything is more of an American concept, competition in the marketplace, right?

Private schools, public schools
private mail service, public mail service
private swimming pools, public swimming pools

Don't you see that the Private health insurance companies have absolutely NO motivation to change anything about their prices nor policies without the presence of a non-profit OPTION being made available.

OCTOBER 20, 2009, 11:51 A.M. ET
US Public Insurance Option Gains Ground In New Poll
online.wsj.com...

A government-run insurance plan is picking up support from a majority of Americans in a new poll, as Senate leaders continue to debate whether to include such a plan in a final health-care overhaul bill that would go to the Senate floor.

Fifty-seven percent of all Americans now favor a public insurance option, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll, up from 52% in mid-August. That number is down from 62% in a June poll, however.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by grover

 

Seperation of church and state means that the goverment shall not endorse any one relgion, it doesnt mean that people who are in postions of power who are elected by there districts can not consult there god or go against something becuase it is against there moral conviction.

To back up poedxsoldiervet, Technically there isn't even separation between church and state...the Constitution just says that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Where/how/why does that affect senate members being religious? Or a city or state government putting up a cross or a nativity scene at Christmas?

Most left-wing cultists trying to defeat traditional values have turned it into freedom from religion. If one teaches in a public school he/she could get fired for wearing a cross necklace...what does that have to do with Congress making no law for or against religion?

[edit on 10/20/2009 by AnonymousMoose]

reply to post by chrisd250

Originally posted by chrisd250
the british government is in almost every area of their lives over there...i didnt say it was from health care, all im saying is its a step in the wrong direction to allow the gov another vehicle by which to enslave a supposedly free country...imo if this passes i suspect within the next 10 years you WILL be told what u can and cannot eat, injest, take part in ect...

So, you've read the Bills and are scared of the slippery slope of spooky socialism, eh? Then could you please tell me which part of heath care reform is the "enslavement" part. Please point to a specific paragraph in one of the specific Senate or House Bills which are currently coming out of committee. Or could it be, that you are simply scared into thinking this way because someone on some news network or radio show told you that the Dems are coming to take your freedoms. Occam's razor tells me it's more likely the latter in your case.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by Artephius Abraxas Helios]

reply to post by AnonymousMoose
You ask where do people get the idea that the separation of church and state is mandated in the Constitution when all it says on the topic is that congress shall establish no official religion....right? The answer is that the doctrine of separation of church and state was created by the establishment clause of the constitution, but has been expanded and defined by the supreme court over 200 plus years of precedent. The Law of the land is not just the constitution, but the decisions by that forgotten and most independent of the three branches of Government, the Judiciary. Simply because most of us have forgotten about the Courts, does not mean that we are now entitled to interpret the Constitution as we see fit to better fit our political arguments. Go learn about separation of church and state in context of the Courts, and then come back and post.

reply to post by grover


I have researched "the Family" in the past. They are the real deal...as sinister as it gets...the stuff of fiction.

They are ridicoulsly well funded.
They engage in subtle and not so subtle blackmail of politicians.
They permit affairs and other stuff to occur at their boarding houses for this purpose.
They tout their "King David" Philosophy... if you are powerful, God's ok with it...whatever the sin...you are chosen.

Sanford, John Ensign and others had affairs there at "C-Street" boarding house in DC run by "The Family"

www.lasvegassun.com...

The Family began with this idea that God does not work through churches but rather through those whom The Family calls the “New Chosen.” They believe they’re chosen by God. They can’t be expected to pray with the rest of us. They need to pray in private with people of equal status.

Rachel Maddow Runs New "C Street House"/Family Expose'

In a new August 17, 2009 Maddow show segment [link to MSNBC page with viewable show segment], Rachel Maddow and Jeff Sharlet discuss, among many new revelations, the disturbing fact that the "Christian Embassy" scandal, propelled by a complaint to the Department of Defense from the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, was investigated by a Pentagon Inspector General who is in fact a Family member.

Over the course of the summer of 2009, Washington's "C Street House" has become notorious as a string of sex scandals have engulfed national GOP political figures who live at or have lived at, or attended Bible study classes at, the secretive former convent turned church-cum cheap-rent high end boarding house: Senator John Ensign, former Congressman Charles "Chip" Pickering, and South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford.

Mark Sanford carried on his affair at "The Family" boarding house..And echoed what he had been told..

Sanford: King David Didn't Resign, So Why Should I?
tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...


[edit on 20-10-2009 by maybereal11]

reply to post by Rhetoric


I quoted the portions of your post I had problems with, period. There are limits to the amount you can quote on ATS.

Also, your argument about public/private schools etc. is something people bring up all the time in reference to this discussion. Would the public option be controlled by the federal government or local/state government? (rhetorical question if you couldn't tell) The false anology you are posing leads to many other issues. I wholeheartedly agree with taking power from the federal government and giving more to state and local. Maybe healthcare issues should be taken on by the state. I heard yesterday that one Dem not supporting the bill is struggling because his state is the lowest reciever in medicare payment, and he feels his state would not benefit because of some of the issues within the bill.

Also, I don't see the issue you are seeing. I see the best healthcare in the world available to me. I also see that changes can be made in areas that would improve the system more than handing healthcare over to our federal government. Start with the source of cost issues; begin regulating malpractice suits and begin lifting of pharmacutical regulations.




[edit on 20-10-2009 by Bugman82]

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Ya...the government fails all the time, let me provide you a list...sarcasm of course.


Medicare, Social Security in all it's forms
The VA
The Postal Service
The FAA
ATS
Public Parks and Wildlife
EPA
FBI and CIA
Police Departments
Fire Departments
Federal Prison system ( to keep us all safe of course)
The Greatest Standing Army of all time.
Coast Guard
Fema ( just in case your in a disaster)
FDA
USDA
National Institute of Health
CDC
USDA
The list goes on. Some work better than others...but they all work to help you and I out.

I think it ugly that anyone would put the health and life of their fellow American on a back burner for politics, ideology or their own pockets.

Originally posted by Bugman82
reply to post by Rhetoric

 

I see the best healthcare in the world available to me.

Nice for you, but the problem is that Millions of other people in this Country don't, that's the point.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Libertygal

 

There is no doubt we need health care reform

I am sorry, but there is A Lot of Doubt that we need reform. You think its broken because the Elites are Telling you its broken in order to grab ultimate power. It is not a perfect order, but point to one that is better. You can't, it does not exist. No, not in perfect Canada, nor in the anointed ones hero's home country of Cuba, nor in the Administrations God Mao's land of China.

Our system is the best in the world, it is just being abused by illegals, Civic Workers and men of Power in order to crash the country. Its not the system thats broken, but the people that run it.

If they are sinister, creepy, whacko, at least they are acting as a speed bump against the current sinister, creepy, whacko majority in Washington. I'll take sides with the ones who are furthest away from communism every time.

reply to post by Bugman82

Originally posted by Bugman82
Also, I don't see the issue you are seeing. I see the best healthcare in the world available to me. I also see that changes can be made in areas that would improve the system more than handing healthcare over to our federal government. Start with the source of cost issues; begin regulating malpractice suits and begin lifting of pharmacutical regulations.

This makes me so angry I could spit at the computer screen

Do you even know what percent of the total cost of medical care is due to malpractice lawsuits. The conservatives, who WANT tort reform could only come up with studies that show 1-2 percent of the total. The more middle of the rode figures show 1 to less than 1 percent. Your heath care costs are not exorbitant because of frivolous malpractice law suits. The facts on this are beyond debate, and yet you still cling to what you've been told.

I could go on explaining the facts to you and everyone like you and you would still argue for torn reform because it is easier to blame attorneys than it is to realize the truth, which is that your insurance companies do not care about you or even their own employees. They only care about the bottom line. The reason health care costs so much is because of the insurance gestapo, plane and simple.

And do you really want to DE-regulate the pharmaceutical industry? Are you crazy because the bottom of a cave just called and said they want their bat guano back!?! Big Pharma is right behind the insurance companies on the lists of major campaign contributors... they buy the politicians wholesale, and apparently they've bought the right spokesperson to sway your opinion as well.

Jeesh.....Deny Ignorance Indeed!!!!

Originally posted by AnnieNakki
What I want to know is why there is the mad rush to pass this health care stuff.....poll after poll shows most Americans are happy with their health care....poor people already get free health care....so do illegal immigrants. It is illegal to turn poor people away from hospitals.

If TPTB really cared about us, they would slow down and do the right thing. So if some 'creepy, right wing' representatives are trying to slow things down, so much the better.

Because, hundreds of people are dying EVERY DAY without this.

What do you expect?

Chuck Grassley is a Freemason.
Black Hawk Lodge #65

www.nndb.com...

I suspect the others are in the same cult.

just saw some random rally downtown san diego of a very large mob of people blocking traffic because there were to many on one block. They were protesting your beloved savior's forced bill. Look, do we live in a democracy or do we not, here we can clearly see the country is cracking over this stupid bill, people don't want more gov't control over things, it has been snow balling and it has to stop somewhere and this is where it has to stop.