Poll: majority now supports public health insurance option

Originally posted by Erasurehead

Does anyone in America really want the government to make having health insurance mandatory? Having to report proof of insurance to the IRS or you get a big fine?

That does not sound like freedom to me.

Nope, ever since the Death Panel squad torpedoed the public option, great work though...

Neither does the prospects of paying double the premiums every ten years for the foreseeable future. Which sounds like Super FREEDOM!!!

Originally posted by kozmo
Those of you who support the public option talk about it like it's free or something... WTF is the matter with all of you!? Have you learned nothing from the continued abject failures of Medicare and Social Security - two completely bankrupt systems that they are already talking about needing massive cutbacks and rationing to continue? Now you want the same government that destroyed those two systems to handle your healthcare!?!?

Do you honestly believe that the numbers they are throwing around for this neat little ponzi scheme are accurate? Name for me just one project that the government has brought in ON TIME and ON BUDGET!!! Just one - I'll sit back and hold my breath for the avalanche of information.

UNBELIEVABLE how gullible and naive people can be!

Edited to stay on topic: The poll is pure manufactured BS to suit the "agenda". Remember, this administration so proudly pointed out that they control the media and the flow of information. To that end, statistical numbers are like prisoners - they will tell you anything if you torture them enough.

[edit on 19-10-2009 by kozmo]

First off you should get a clue about medicare and social security. They both currently sit on huge surpluses. While it appears they may need more funding in the future, currently they pay for themselves. Unfortunately they also pay for much wasteful spending by the goverment so the supluses are simply IOU's from the goverment. A few simple fixes and both will be funded for the extended future.

For social security there is two possible fixes. Increase the retirement age or make people pay the tax on their full income. Since people live much longer than they use to, which is the main reason there will be projected future shortages, it would make sense to raise the age for full benefits. 65 instead of 62 for early benefit and 69 instead of 67 for full benefits is the only change that is needed. It would also help if we had more people working and paying.

As for Medicare, again a small extension of age or a slight increase (1%) in the medicare tax will take care of future deficits. We could also work to decrease costs. They do this by adding more people to the plan (public option) and cracking down on fraud and inefficient care.


I am sick and tired of folks saying the goverment cannot be efficient, Medicare is run more efficiently than private insurance by almost all measures. The VA plan run by the goverment is so efficient that many foriegn goverments have adopted that model for their universal healthcare plans. Why? Because a huge layer of profit is removed. I am tired of giving a portion of my healthcare costs to a fatcat sitting in an insurance company boardroom.

As for the poll, almost all polls have shown that the majority of the public is in favor of a public helathcare option. WITH THAT KIND OF TRACK HISTORY, FOLKS SHOULD LOOK DUBIOUSLY ON THE POLLS THAT DON'T SHOW THAT TO BE THE CASE!

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
First off you should get a clue about medicare and social security. They both currently sit on huge surpluses. While it appears they may need more funding in the future, currently they pay for themselves. Unfortunately they also pay for much wasteful spending by the goverment so the supluses are simply IOU's from the goverment. A few simple fixes and both will be funded for the extended future.

Sorry, I know you weren't talking to me specifically, but wanted to touch on a few things you said.

I'm wondering about the surpluses and why they matter. They seem like money vacuums to me.

For social security there is two possible fixes. Increase the retirement age or make people pay the tax on their full income. Since people live much longer than they use to, which is the main reason there will be projected future shortages, it would make sense to raise the age for full benefits. 65 instead of 62 for early benefit and 69 instead of 67 for full benefits is the only change that is needed. It would also help if we had more people working and paying.

Why are those the only two ideas ever proposed? It presumes the requirement to keep it as essential when it certainly is not. Would your idea work? Sure, but to what end? It's hard to compete with the private sector when it comes to retirement planning, even when it's hooked on the economic bubble of the decade (each one has it).

I have another idea, and it would not be privatization at all (at least in conventional political terms).

At date X, all citizens age 45 and older keep Social Security. Continue to pay in and ultimately receive benefits as normal.

If you are between 18 and 45, you can opt out at any time, but you forfeit what you have contributed.

If you are under 18, you will never pay and never get it. This would let it phase out reasonably fairly.

As for Medicare, again a small extension of age or a slight increase (1%) in the medicare tax will take care of future deficits. We could also work to decrease costs. They do this by adding more people to the plan (public option) and cracking down on fraud and inefficient care.

The problem is not the absence of government, but government itself. It has had an increasingly involved role in health care over the past number of decades. Adverse to practically every business I can think of, as the technology improved, cost has gone up and respective quality have gone down.

Just think if cell phones did that.

I am sick and tired of folks saying the goverment cannot be efficient, Medicare is run more efficiently than private insurance by almost all measures. The VA plan run by the goverment is so efficient that many foriegn goverments have adopted that model for their universal healthcare plans. Why? Because a huge layer of profit is removed. I am tired of giving a portion of my healthcare costs to a fatcat sitting in an insurance company boardroom.

Because many of us think the government should butt out, doesn't mean we enjoy getting hosed by monopolies the government has enabled. They strangle the market, and then say they'll fix it? I doubt it.

It really says something about the private insurance industry that the government is run better. That is not an impressive feat for the government, but rather a damning of the private insurance mess.

As for the poll, almost all polls have shown that the majority of the public is in favor of a public helathcare option. WITH THAT KIND OF TRACK HISTORY, FOLKS SHOULD LOOK DUBIOUSLY ON THE POLLS THAT DON'T SHOW THAT TO BE THE CASE!

Sure, but I don't trust the American people to know what is good for it, honestly. It's the same mentality as the big government people have, only with a different analysis.

reply to post by marg6043


You have to understand that there is No Final Bill. The Bill's will be merged to form the Final Bill, no one knows what will or will not be in the final bill.

Health bill: Real battle starts now
After months of sometimes excruciating debate on health care legislation, the Senate Finance Committee voted 14-9 last week to approve what is universally called the Baucus bill, after Committee Chairman Max Baucus of Montana.
But the real battles may have just begun.
The Baucus bill is slated to be merged with another bill passed by the Senate Health Committee to produce a bill all senators can vote on. Meanwhile, on the House side, where three committees have produced three different bills, work has begun on merging them.
www.nwfdailynews.com...

I posted a thread about the "Baucus Bill" a few days ago. Check it out.



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by kardenal
It seems to me that the majority of folks who are against the public option are the ones who still have health insurance. Every person I've talked to who doesn't have health insurance is in favor of a public option. It would help me because I've lost my job & insurance, so at least I would be able to provide my kids some sort of coverage as opposed to none...

Yes, by the numbers Obama says there are 30 million without insurance so the other 270 million must change. Its pure crap and I hope it doesn't pass. I suspect most of those 30 million refuse to work so screw them.

As for those that can't work that is what medicare is for. If you dont qualify for that then work harder...

There's quite a few of us 30 million who simply don't want insurance. Insurance is the business of you placing a bet that you'll get hurt or sick and the insurance company placing a bet that you won't. Then, when you win the bet, they screw you with the fine print. As they say in Vegas, "The house always wins."

Plus, a lot of the insurance racket is a majority of healthy people paying for the medical costs of a few disgusting slobs. Yeah, the higher risk people might pay a little bit more, but I don't believe for one second that the millions of smokers, druggies, alcoholics, couch potatoes, and hideous gluttons in this country don't inflate insurance and health care costs for everyone else.

I'd rather be left out of it. If I need hospitalized, I'll set up a payment plan.

Originally posted by mattifikation
There's quite a few of us 30 million who simply don't want insurance. Insurance is the business of you placing a bet that you'll get hurt or sick and the insurance company placing a bet that you won't. Then, when you win the bet, they screw you with the fine print. As they say in Vegas, "The house always wins."

I'd rather be left out of it. If I need hospitalized, I'll set up a payment plan.

your post is layered with themes of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Seems like we as a nation have forgotten what that means. I see many posting in this thread that seem to be waiting for a hand out. There used to be a day where one would be EMBARRASSED to hold his/her hand out when they could very well take care of themselves.

Its so sad and might I add, shame on those that want the masses to pay for thier houses, vehicles and health care. If you have health concerns, get a job to pay for insurance or setup a payment plan like the above poster suggested. Dont make the rest of us pay for it.

a star for you mattifikation!

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

Thanks for that, I was just taking a drink and some Mountain Dew flew out my nose. That burnt.

Social Security is doing fine? Medicare is doing fine?

That is the biggest lie ever perpetrated on the American People.

Their is no magical account with Trillions of dollars in it. Do you actually think there is a dime in either?

Medicare and Social Security is a ponzeii scheme. People pay into it and the money goes to pay for current recipients.

The problem is with our economy now, there is not enough going in to cover what is going out. Do you believe that the IOU's the government has been putting into a file cabinet have been collecting interest or something?

edit 3 times to try and fix color on final point
[edit on 10/22/2009 by endisnighe]

[edit on 10/22/2009 by endisnighe]

[edit on 10/22/2009 by endisnighe]