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Poll: majority now supports public health insurance option

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posted on Oct, 19 2009 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by vor78
 


Well, they got what they wanted with this bogus poll.
This Sunday the libs will be throwing this bogus poll around
everywhere. "We have a clear majority!" "See?!!!!!"

Sometimes i think they believe their own lies.




posted on Oct, 19 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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Poll Data - If anyone is interested

There is the data of the poll. I suggest anyone that hears poll numbers actually look up the data.

Some interesting things in it. 1,000 people polled. Randomly supposedly and nationwide. I would like to see how their sampling of random occurs though.

I don't see some shocking poll data there. Some of the data has nothing to equate to. Lot of month to month data it seems shows up as NA meaning they are basing their finding on initial data, someone's other poll data or assuming.



posted on Oct, 19 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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Most people aren't too familiar with the not too recent past, lets take a look at how well the Democratic initiative to cram a Health Care Reform down citizens throats is likely to play out! Flash back 1989...


It was that year when the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, Dan Rostenkowski, became more widely known -- not for his work on tax reform and not for the corruption scandal that would later land him in jail.

It was that year when the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, Dan Rostenkowski, became more widely known -- not for his work on tax reform and not for the corruption scandal that would later land him in jail.

He became famous for being accosted by a pack of angry senior citizens furious with the Illinois congressman for his role in passing catastrophic health care reform into law. It was legislation that sought to protect senior citizens from the financial impact of catastrophic illness, but it also increased taxes on Medicare recipients.


Lets take a look at what happens when the elderly get their dander up shall we?


This was in the days before YouTube and before the rise of the ubiquitous and rival cable networks Fox News and MSNBC. Still, the footage of Rostenkowski being hunted down by rabid octogenarians and fleeing in his big Cadillac while almost running them down left an indelible impression in the minds of the congressional leadership.

In November of 1989, the Congress did what it rarely does. It repealed a law it had passed just a year before. It was as if the law never existed. It was annulled.



CNN.COM

My personal guess is that this Law will be recieved the same, it will lead to the utter embarassment and defeat of the Democrats who are 100% responsible for it, and the Democratic party's fortunes will decline rapidly from there.

Kool Aide drinkers beware history oft repeats itself especially when you don't know any!

[edit on 19/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Oct, 19 2009 @ 07:30 PM
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Those of you who support the public option talk about it like it's free or something... WTF is the matter with all of you!? Have you learned nothing from the continued abject failures of Medicare and Social Security - two completely bankrupt systems that they are already talking about needing massive cutbacks and rationing to continue? Now you want the same government that destroyed those two systems to handle your healthcare!?!?
Do you honestly believe that the numbers they are throwing around for this neat little ponzi scheme are accurate? Name for me just one project that the government has brought in ON TIME and ON BUDGET!!! Just one - I'll sit back and hold my breath for the avalanche of information.


UNBELIEVABLE how gullible and naive people can be!


Edited to stay on topic: The poll is pure manufactured BS to suit the "agenda". Remember, this administration so proudly pointed out that they control the media and the flow of information. To that end, statistical numbers are like prisoners - they will tell you anything if you torture them enough.


[edit on 19-10-2009 by kozmo]



posted on Oct, 19 2009 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Sorry, but you won't mind if I turn around and use your own often used (against Fox News) tactics against you on this story, will you?

Washington Post - one of the most liberal newspapers in the country and no doubt one of the MSM that obama's press secretary said that they controlled.

ABC - aka Another Barack Channel - the network that fawningly let obama broadcast one of his propaganda pieces on in primetime earlier this year.




posted on Oct, 19 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo
Those of you who support the public option talk about it like it's free or something... WTF is the matter with all of you!?


Exactly right!

That is the biggest fallacy that the sheep are being brainwashed to believe.

They think there is going to be FREE health care for those who cannot afford it, WRONG.

What this is going to do is mandate EVERYONE to carry health insurance if you can AFFORD it, or pay a fine and if you don't pay a fine then you go to jail.

I'm interested as to how they are going to define someone can AFFORD health insurance. If you are making minimum wage (which by the way, minimum wage workers are living below the poverty level according to the government) are you going to be considered wealthy enough to purchase health insurance?

And what about the jobless are they going to get health care, NOPE.

This is not the benevolent plan the Democrats make it out to be.

It's nothing more than a way for the corporations to bilk taxpayers out of trillions of dollars.





[edit on 19-10-2009 by lucentenigma]



posted on Oct, 19 2009 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Avenginggecko
 


There is that and a report released today that in 2010 more employers are going to make employees shoulder more of the burden.

As an employer myself, a month of family coverage is $1700 of which the employee pays $150

If the trend is for employers to start making employees shoulder more burden... then that makes the PO that much more likely... and in my opinion is simply going to cause the market to correct itself. Because if companies can no longer afford the majority of insurance the employees will drop coverage and then prices will have to come down for the insurance companies to control market share.


It sounds like you really want this public option so you can increase the bottom line of your business.



posted on Oct, 19 2009 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by lucentenigma
 


I heard with this Baucus plan 20 million people STILL will not have
health insurance.
This is all just about control.
Growing government.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by lucentenigma

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Avenginggecko
 


There is that and a report released today that in 2010 more employers are going to make employees shoulder more of the burden.

As an employer myself, a month of family coverage is $1700 of which the employee pays $150

If the trend is for employers to start making employees shoulder more burden... then that makes the PO that much more likely... and in my opinion is simply going to cause the market to correct itself. Because if companies can no longer afford the majority of insurance the employees will drop coverage and then prices will have to come down for the insurance companies to control market share.


It sounds like you really want this public option so you can increase the bottom line of your business.



Actually yes... what my business pays has gone up %150 over the last 4 years.

It's got to stop soon or else we won't be able to afford to give health care benefits at all...



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 12:41 AM
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Does anyone even care anymore? I certainly don't.

They can give us single payer and I won't care because one way or the other we will probably see a global correction, effectively annexing American economic influence.

As far as the poll goes, it doesn't matter either because the majority of Americans fall into a few categories.

- Have little to no interest in practically anything that isn't sourced directly from the government or major media.

- Are too stupid to understand or connect most of the information on the topic of American politics, history, economics (theory or practical), and the Constitution.

or

- Know and Understand, but have too much stake in the game to really risk doing anything about it.

Clinton pushed an economic correction, then Bush did, now Obama is. Each time it gets worse, so ultimately I don't think we have much recourse.

Obamacare will happen, and even if it starts small, you can't take it away. God forbid if we stopped social security. Wouldn't want to disappoint the last reasonably wealthy generation we are likely to have in a very long time.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by kozmo
Those of you who support the public option talk about it like it's free or something... WTF is the matter with all of you!? Have you learned nothing from the continued abject failures of Medicare and Social Security - two completely bankrupt systems that they are already talking about needing massive cutbacks and rationing to continue? Now you want the same government that destroyed those two systems to handle your healthcare!?!?
Do you honestly believe that the numbers they are throwing around for this neat little ponzi scheme are accurate? Name for me just one project that the government has brought in ON TIME and ON BUDGET!!! Just one - I'll sit back and hold my breath for the avalanche of information.
[edit on 19-10-2009 by kozmo]


Its like my grandparents say about the healthcare plan, "This is America so it will work."

History be damned, this time its going to be different!



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by WhiteOneActual
Its like my grandparents say about the healthcare plan, "This is America so it will work."

History be damned, this time its going to be different!


Honestly, I hope you are kidding (or at least being sarcastic). No offense to your grandparents, but they lived most of their lives in a nation that made things and lent money to other nations.

You and I live in a nation that has destroyed it's ability to make practically anything and has the worst borrowing history I have ever seen.

Wouldn't it make more sense to resolve our debt now rather than mask it AGAIN with huge borrowing and money printing?

How does anyone reconcile that fundamental idea?



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Sorry, I'm also an employer, and I don't believe these figures you're throwing out:

a month of family coverage is $1700 of which the employee pays $150

I mean I can't argue the $150 the employee pays, but $1700 for a family? How many people are in the average family that works for you?

Mark my words, if this does pass you won't have to worry about insurance for your employees, cause you'll probably go out of business due to the tax/fine burden.

From what I understand under the House measure, employers with payrolls of more than $400,000 a year will be required to provide health insurance or pay an 8% penalty. Businesses whose payroll falls between $250,000 and $400,000 a year would pay a lesser penalty. Businesses with fewer than $250,000 in payroll would be exempt. A Senate version would exempt employers with fewer than 25 employees, and the fine for bigger companies not complying would be $750 fine per employee per year.

You may well fall in the 25 employee and under or under $250000 in payroll category, but not all small businesses do.

The businesses that are over the 25 employee mark or just above the $250000 in payroll mark will probably layoff employees to get under it. Not good right now with unemployment the way it is.

Am I wrong somewhere? Please let me know if I am.

[edit on 10/20/2009 by JohnnyR]



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 01:20 AM
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I for one am not going to be forced to buy insurance 'or else' which is basically, which is basically what they're saying.

If it is affordable, I MAY get it, if I choose not to, I will NOT be paying any 'fine' they try to trump up.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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I think it was all a scam. they brought up this public option, and knew it would not fly. They never wanted a public option, they used all the objection of it,
so now they can say, here you go, a bill with no public option so they could pass what they are now, a bill that makes insurance mandatory.

I can see how this will fly. How many people make just over the poverty level,
but can not get any assistance, but you are too poor to afford the cost of living. That gap is closing in every day as more people loose jobs. In AZ you have to make under 13k a year to get anything. If I make 13,020 too bad, and when you making that, who can afford health care?

It is a big scam, slight of the hand trick. What about a person who gets fired from a job, and assistance is denied. Only people on assistance qualify, what happens to that person? He becomes a criminal? I am just thinking of future possible scenerios where this can go.

Everyone in congress should have to live a year on minimum wage before they are allowed to serve, I swear. It has gotten so bad. I am tired of business dictating politics. They all need to be fired.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by KrazyJethro
 


Sadly I'm not kidding about my grandparents. They are usually of the independent type and don't appreciate third parties meddling in their affairs, but throw the word "free" in the mix and they're all ears.

And +1 on your economic assessment. I think America put one foot in her grave when we stopped producing tangible goods and transferred to a service based economy.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
now the public understand what mandatory means and what it also means to be forced to buy private insurance, see they are starting to see what also means to pay for what they don't want.


I am a veteran and i WILL NOT buy insurance from a private insurance company. period.
One is that i live on a veterans disability pension and don't have the money to pay for private insurance.

Two the reason i am going to the VA for health care is because of the failings of private insurance.
I tried to find out what was going wrong with my health when i had private insurance and the doctors that were testing me were not allowed to do some test because the insurance company denied the test. (CT scan)
after i became disabled i went to the VA for my medical care and they did a CT scan and found the Sarcoidosis.
Once they found the Sacoidosis then the knew to test for neurosarcoidosis
and that gave the cause for my neurological disorders and fibromyalgia.

Because of the delay in finding the sarcoidosis i no longer had disablity insurance so it saved the insurance industry even more money because i would have been getting over twice as much money from disablity insurance through the company i had been working for then i get from the VA disability pension.

By refusing the tests the insurance industry shifted the burden from them to the taxpayers in the US that pay the VA disability pension.

I only get screwed once and i will not pay a private insurance company to screw me again.

And i know the government will not jail me because then they would have to still pay for all my medical care and as a EMT i can be a real pain in the A**
plus a medical nightmare for any jail that wants to hold me.

I have talked to a few people that had there insurance cancelled by the insurance industry illegally because the insurance company claimed it was a preexisting condition that won't buy any insurance from the insurance industry and only buy public option type insurance.
because they believe the insurance industry will pick there pockets and charge a large amount for people that have health problems that they had illegaly canceled on before.
They believe its not fair for the insurance industry to rip them off twice with the governments help and some of them would go to jail before paying the insurance industry another cent.


[edit on 20-10-2009 by ANNED]



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 04:16 AM
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Too bad I never got a single poll of any type from the government in my whole life. I never know anyone who got the poll as well.

I wonder how many from ATS got a vote in this poll.



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by kozmo
 



Those of you who support the public option talk about it like it's free or something... WTF is the matter with all of you!? Have you learned nothing from the continued abject failures of Medicare and Social Security - two completely bankrupt systems that they are already talking about needing massive cutbacks and rationing to continue? Now you want the same government that destroyed those two systems to handle your healthcare!?!?

UNBELIEVABLE how gullible and naive people can be!

Well, I guess whatever is passed won't help you or me, so we are both screwed.

How about a drink friend? I'm buyin'! I'll have a Crown & Coke... Cheers!



posted on Oct, 20 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by ANNED
 


ANNED my husband is a Military Retiree we are now under Tricare humana, do you know that is a bill going on in congress that if the Health care Reform is passed Veterans and Retirees will have to buy private insurance? yes the bill have a few articles that tells how the government will save money cutting or eliminating the Medicare benefits and Tricare benefits.

Just ask about I had a thread on the issue somewhere I will look into it and will send you a link.

Yes the government is also planning to save money forcing retirees and vets into buying private insurance when supposedly the benefits of the retirees and vets are protected by congress.

Things are looking very shady now a days, we have Obama promising no change for the military retirees and vets and then they come around with bills that will change all that.



[edit on 20-10-2009 by marg6043]



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