Will the Australia economy keep its head above water?

Infrared - thanks for your response.

As for the hysterical, rabid ranter above me - umm, you're just showing yourself up. You don't like my opinions because 1) You're incapable of being rational about certain subjects and can only respond like a child;


2) You certainly appear to have difficulties comprehending a board devoted to debate and discussion. If others' opinion articulated systematically and coolly cause you to throw a tantrum I suggest you keep away.

You are probably one of those people that Australians I knew talked about when I lived and worked there. Attempts to have a debate are silenced by the hissy fits, tantrums, misrepresentation of others' views and intimidation by those whose interests lie in the status quo.

There's a real paranoid edge there to the spiteful accusations you make - clearly there's a little too much truth in my posts. You probably are one of those who makes a lifestyle out of intimidating other Australians who don't hold your opinions.

Sad. Sorry, can't help you. I'll let you and other hissy fitters talk to each other. I won't give you the benefit of replying from now.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by dontbelievehype]

[edit on 22-10-2009 by dontbelievehype]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Respect my friend, RESPECT.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Unfortunately, people that don't live in this country don't understand. They just jump on the racist bandwagon because it's the easy.

reply to post by dontbelievehype


Ummm no

Im not one of those Australians you seem to think.

The reason Im upset is becasue you been here 5 minutes and deicde to base your views on pure assumptions and speculations.

How about you spend 10 minutes where Ive lived and where I used to live, an explain to the indigenous Australians why you think they are the source of all our problems.....Oh wait your an ignoranus (thats right ignoranus, figure it out)....you wouldnt even know where to look.

Andfor the record, as for the immigration policy, I think we need them, as long as they come here legally its fine...anyone who doesnt, then they have to spend time in a detention centre which is fair.

I bet when you were here, you didnt even live in the outback, you probably spent all your time in the city didnt you

All these previous arguments aside, I am an australian and i do not consider myself particularly educated in any sense with regards to finances or markets etc so i and doubtless many others find myself a bit worried when i read about crashing economies etc and how that would affect the layman. I left school at 16 and spent nine years in the military followed by doing manual labour up to now. I cant help but wonder if the sky does fall will my ignorance of financial knowledge leave me and my family behind the eight ball. I find the situation here in oz disturbing because if you have no assets to speak of, the possibilities of getting them are getting mighty slim, from what i can gather and i worry for my family and other peoples in the same boat

Keep in mind that investing in the stock market is hit and miss. I know people who were always careful with their money and had good jobs, were affluent, but they invested at the wrong time - eg the dotcom bubble in the US and lost big wads of cash.

With the recent 5 years plus of greed when we were all being urged to invest, financial institutions and managers looked down at the little guy. People were disparaged for having 'only' 100,000 dollars to invest.

Hedge funds (including those that did crazy things and criminal things with people's money - eg Bernie Madoff's pyramid scheme) were and are only for the wealthy or relatively wealthy because they ask for a deposit that is huge by ordinary folks' standards.

I'd say that you shouldn't regret not having been able to put money in the money markets. You'd be surprised at how many professionals (lawyers etc) have sunk money into the market and reaped modest gains. Slowly. Ordinary folks couldn't afford to tie up their money that way, if they had some to invest.

Don't sweat yet. I know Australia has banks and other institutions where you can put in small plus savings and get some interest from special deposit funds. The interest aint great at the moment but putting small amounts aside can add up. The meltdowm is making this all a new game. But if you've contributed to a pension fund (superannuation0, you'll have lost a little but you still have that sum waiting for you.

And so long as Aus keeps its national healthcare that's a big plus. That's a great system, wish the US could model itself on but the trouble is we're a collection of states with huge cultural/legal differences and the fine print in what Obama's trying to do creates opposition to national health care.



[edit on 23-10-2009 by dontbelievehype]

[edit on 23-10-2009 by dontbelievehype]

reply to post by dontbelievehype


Well seeing as I made a post regarding my Aunt who is receiving the old age pension which welfare I guess, I'll respond.
If by welfare you mean the physically able who can work receiving welfare, then I am in agreement.

BUT if your talking about old people who have worked all their lives, raised good tax paying citizens, and who are too old to get along without support, then I don't agree with you.

The Welfare problem would be partially fixed if you had to be an Australian Citizen to recieve it. As it stands, you only have to be a permanent resident who's resided in the country for 2 years to be able to claim.
How much of a contribution could a person who's been here 24 months do?
Not much.

So more stringent rules in being able to qualify for Welfare might cut the bill and also remind people that it's a privilege rather than a right to take for granted and abuse.

I also think 3-4000K baby bonus for having a baby is ABSURD.
People have been having kids for free for hundreds of years and now all of a sudden they want to pay people to have kids? Not to mention that it's costing a fortune.

So, in all, I'm not against all Welfare but making it harder to get and also
rethinking what welfare is being paid for would also reduce the deficit a LOT.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by Flighty]

reply to post by wycky


Weither Corporate Australia keeps its head above water or not- I honestly could not give a damn.
Those '@#!$%&' have been ripping-off the Australian people (as they always do, and have done since the 80's anyway)- why the hell should anyone care?

If you ask me, the downturn has been great for me- lower interest rates for one thing! And not to mention a stimulus!
Its been the only time in my life I can ever remember the Government actually doing anything to ease financial burden for its constituents.
A lot of people lost jobs...some may say?! B.S to that.
These people have been tricked into believing that the GFC was the cause of them loosing their jobs- many of us kept them.
I am in no way thumbing the nose. I am saying that the GFC has been the biggest financial scam in memory, perpetuated by Corporate-dom, whom have been ass-kissed by our leaders elect (How much did they get out of it?); the 'formally-unskilled' have been expended and the GFC blammed!
What a load of Bollocks

Dont worry though (if you feel inclined) we've already had one interest rate rise and are expecting 2 more before christmas!
Ho Ho Ho every thing must be rosey- its time to bend-over once again- our economy is fairing well amongst the developed nations; and alas: also the highest taxed!
Our leaders will do the right thing by us

Yeah you really do have to hand it to the government when it comes to fleecing the public on a mass scale with no consequences. My old man was due to retire this year but suddenly his superannuation has vanished due to the bad investments made on his behalf by the government superannuation policy he has. Then we see the same people who lost this money giving themselves a nice fat pay rise to 500 odd thousand a year for their superb business sense. The government should be run like a business with a board of directors who should have to justify their continued employment to us the people based on what they have done to improve things for us

reply to post by wilko

My partner enquired about Govt housing and was told there was roughly an 11 year wait list...

Thats what they say. If you get yourself onto the emergency housing list, you still might have a 2-3 year wait OR a just a few months, depending on what area you apply to.
I worked part time in a casual position for Housing quite a few years ago and believe me, when it comes to Housing, the squeaky door gets the oil.

If you make enough noise and are prepared to practically live on their doorstep and keep up with enquiries on your application, you'll be one of the successful ones.

reply to post by wilko


Ahhh yes. The farce of democracy.

Can we get over the personal attacks on each other, debate the statements not the person. I'm not here to pick sides but Dontbelievehype is posting his perception of our country, whether he was here for 15min or 15 years it is his point of view and there is nothing wrong with that.
I would find it very interesting if other people who have spent a short time here have a similar perception, they are looking at things from a different perspective and some times an outside view to a problem is what we need.
Im sure if we spent a short time in another country we would have a different perception of the country compared to the people who have lived there their whole lives.

Any way back on track.

Dontbelievehype mention population earlier on. i heard on the radio last week they were talking about Australia's population and said due to migration and births Australia's population will increase 27% over the next 20 years bringing us to approx 28 Million.
Sydney will have an increase of 20% bringing the population from approx 4.4 Million to 5.5 million. They said it will be mayhem in Sydney which is why they will be turning small towns into small metro cities, they mentioned Castle Hill and Coffs Harbour will be a couple of a hand full of towns to become mini Sydneys in an effort to try and move people out of Sydney to reduce the population because we don't have the infrastructure to support it, we don't have the infrastructure to support what we have now imagine another 1.1 million people in the streets or cars on the road.... INSANE!

hmmmm might be a good time to invest in those areas.

reply to post by Flighty


Thankyou for that information on housing times i will definitely look further into it.
I am a firm believer in people being allowed to come into australia through the correct channels. I believe it teaches us about diversity and reduces our ignorance of other cultures but i think the real problem is the lack of infrastructure keeping up with the population explosion here with regards especially to roads, water supply, power supply and housing pricing and availability which in my opinion is what causes the majority of tensions between ethnic groups. People look for the easiest or most recent thing to vent their frustrations on rather than the underlying cause which a lot of the time is the powers that be being out of touch with what is happening on the street... just my opinion. As previously mentioned there is a huge amount of land in this country which is undeveloped and if not for the infrastructure probs a lot of it could be..

reply to post by wycky

Can we get over the personal attacks on each other, debate the statements not the person. I'm not here to pick sides but Dontbelievehype is posting his perception of our country, whether he was here for 15min or 15 years it is his point of view and there is nothing wrong with that.
I would find it very interesting if other people who have spent a short time here have a similar perception, they are looking at things from a different perspective and some times an outside view to a problem is what we need.
Im sure if we spent a short time in another country we would have a different perception of the country compared to the people who have lived there their whole lives.

I agree.

I'd also add that there is a thread on here at the moment of why ATS is so American centred. And yet whenever an American drops into a thread to give their opinion they are practically told to bugger off and what would they know?

It's totally rude.

Hey, thanks for not jumping into the deep end because I happen to be an American who gave their opinion on economic/social/financial issues in the context of the global meltdown.

Those who were offended by my reference to the native population and were quick to call me a racist obviously didn't read my contribution to the thread about the supposed 'IQ difference' between races. I worked in Australia for 5 years, 3 of those in Sydney.

I found Australians down to earth and hospitable but I also saw what you call the 'she'll be alright' mentality mixed with a fear of saying things that the politically correct who are very powerful in govt are ready to call 'racist', 'discrimination; etc on.

With the urgent problems facing Australia's and other countries' economies (which overlaps with issues like population/welfare/tax base/migration to countries), I feel that attitude is leading nowhere fast.

Interesting points about welfare - Australia's system has very strong points but I also think the fact that so much depends on squeezing the ordinary workers and professionals is not good. Australia's economy needs more private businesses that are going to provide alternatives and complement the very strong public oriented sector.

You just don't have enough alternatives there. That's something I was trying to emphasise. The public sector can be very good and Aus citizens are protected against the worst effects of economic downturns by your welfare system. I have lived in other countries, too, where welfare was cut off after a number of months and that is not a model. Some American states have shockingly inadequate welfare provisions.

But again what I was saying is - if you're going to have such a welfare oriented system you need the taxation base and like everywhere else, the tax base is declining. This is where concerns about how many new arrivals (refugees and immigrants) and whether they are going to be able to have financially stable within a good timeframe and contribute rather than be dependent on welfare, are reasonable and should be allowed to be aired without attacking everybody who is concerned as 'racist'.

I didn't see new arrivals wanting to move to the countryside and the Aus countryside needs more people. The refugees and immigrants want the city and urban areas which is understandable but maybe your govt is going to have to say no, we've been generous and let you in and we're generous and support you but you're going to have to give something back.

One of the posters who attacked my posts and refused to read them as they were expressed rather than as he/she wanted to read them, made a big deal out of being the offspring of people who came to Australia and contributed.

My own background is similar - I'm the son of people who left their homeland to make a new life. But the America then is very different from the America now in terms of opportunities and the ability to meet difficulties. Same in Australia - as someone who lived in your country for 5 years I saw firsthand that the new arrivals now are coming to a very different country from that post WW2 to the 80s.

The reference to 28 million is something that should make all Australians wonder just who is deciding that you need massive strain on your water etc, and huge sprawling cities where so many residents rely on the public sector and a declining taxation base.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by dontbelievehype]