Illegal Downloading...

Illegal Downloading of Music Movies ect is wrong, theres no way about it. Its true what they say, its just like walking into HMV ASDA Tesco or Walmart and taking it without paying. Though the chances of getting caught are much slimmer. Now its easy to sit back and say ''Theres worser thing in the world happening'' ''These Artists are making millions'' ''Albums are far to dear''. Try investing your OWN money and time in any Artisitc idea then lets see what your reaction will be. Anybody with half a brain will know its wrong and illegal.

These Record companies and Movie companies whether they be big ones or Independants at the end of the day they are investing money to make make money, not lose it. That also goes for Artists who also invest there money and time. If you are willing to make music or movies with your OWN money and give it away for free, thats you right. Nothing wrong with that.

Now i have nothing to with Music business or Movie Business. It just gets to me when you hear people trying justify illegal downloading. If i find something too dear that i like, i'll save up money then buy it or if i don't agree with the price i'll try finding it somewhere else or not buy it at all. For some people though its ''Oh thats to dear...i'll steal it.

I don't care if an artist has millions in the bank and is with a huge record company making billions year in year out and there album is dear. Thats no excuse to steal.

I would like to hear your views on this subject. I would like to hear people and justify illegal downloading.

Tsom87

are you REALLY sure you would like my views on your posting.

I agree that there's no excuse for illegal downloading. I've done it in the past, admittedly, and my reasons were that I wanted to hear what an album from a particular artist sounded like before buying it. So I dowloaded a couple of tracks, decided I liked it and bought the album, became a fan, paid to see them on tour, and bought their next album. A lot of people say the same thing to justify their actions.

While that may seem like justification for doing it, I don't think the argument holds anymore, and I wouldn't download music illegally now. With artists now putting their music on myspace, spotify etc, a consumer can hear what the music is like and make an informed decision on whether to buy without breaking the law. There is simply no excuse for stealing music now.

Right now the biggest losers to illegal downloading are new artists. Becasue the record industry is not making much money now from recordings, the nature of recording contracts has altered, much to the disadvantage of the new artist. Instead of the standard record deal, we now have the '360' deal, whereby the record label takes not only its cut of record sales revenue, but also a cut of live performance revenue, merchandise revenue, image rights, and any or all other streams of revenue. With the artist desperate to break into the industry, the label has all the bargaining power, and artists get screwed much harder than they used to. Labels are also now much less willing to gamble, or invest in an artist; gone are the days where a band can get a 200 grand deal on the strength of their material, they will now get just enough to cover costs, and the label will also have a clause where it has to recoup all costs of recording before it is liable to pay a penny to the artist. Effectively the artist now only gets a cut of the pure profit, not the revenue as before.


Ultimately, the biggest losers will be the average music fans. With less artists getting signed, there will be less diversity and volume of music for people to buy, with a worst-case-nightmare scenario of only the most inoffensive, safe, MOR, mainstream acts ever getting deals/airplay/exposure. Then again this might well, in turn, re-invogorate underground music scenes, and spur on a wave of unbridled creativity and a new golden age of counter-culture!! Who knows? Only time will tell, but the whole thing is currently a mess, and is largely down to people stealing music, but also down to the record industry's failiure to adapt to the challenges of the digital revolution.

music existed long before record labels and will exist long after them.

music should be free full stop.

and dont be giving me nonsense about not being able to get their music out there .. not with the internet .. they may not make any money out of their records but so what .. call it advertising for their live shows on which they will make far more than a working man.


its fame and the lifestyle they are after .. large amounts of money are a by-product of that .. even without a percentage of the money they would still do it.
and i have absolutely no problem downloading music conscience wise.



[edit on 19-10-2009 by manxman2]

From what I understand the artists make a penny or 2 for each CD sold. They make their own money on tour from ticket sales and t-shirts.

Ask ANY artist this and they'd say that Music would be the worst place to start if your looking to become a multi-millionnaire. The only bands/artists that do make it are "flash-in-the-pan" types who are whored into being something there not, simply because of a 1-hit song..then long forgotten about.

Rock/Indie/Metal bands especially have to work 3x as hard simply to make money to make ends-meet, they literally survive from eating crisps on tour and sleeping in the tour bus.

Any artist will say they barely even get 10p out of any album sold, its ALL down to marketing to fund the pockets of the guys at the top, the bands are second-place as they can easily be replaced by another within a month. Plus I fail to say how you can say its stealing as with any album theres never a finalistic figure for sales, say 1 person might buy a album or 10 million..its just statistics, the money is played around by giving the band less of it for doing more work.

fortunately i don't have to justify downloading. the option is there and i do it. i made mix tapes off the radio when tapes were the thing and i recorded movies with my vcr when that was the thing.

i have questions to you my friend (the op)
is norton making viruses legal?
is microsoft bugging firefox legal?
is apple overpricing theyr products legal?
is ads putting viruses in your pc legal?
is tracking you with undeletable cookies legal?
NO NO NO NO NO
and you rant us for downloading stuff illegaly?
i dont thnk so brother

Originally posted by TSOM87
Its true what they say, its just like walking into HMV ASDA Tesco or Walmart and taking it without paying.

No it is not true. Asda purchase goods from a supplier, they then stock those goods and sell them on to consumers recouping the original outlay and making some profit on top. When someone shoplifts, they deprive the store of something they paid for, that is why shoplifting is theft, a criminal offence. There are actual accountable losses. The legal definition of theft is taking something from someone with the intention of depriving them of the use or benefit of that.

In order for this analogy to be accurate, you would need to walk into an Asda, take a dvd, stick it in your laptop's drive then rip the contents to your hard drive. You have not technically committed theft as you have not deprived Asda of anything, they are still in possession of their goods, you have simply made an additional copy which is not owned by Asda. The only entity that can claim ownership of that copy is the rights holder. The process of making that copy is also illegal, but it is not criminal like theft, nor does not fit the legal definition of theft. You have committed the terrible offence of copyright infringement.

Shoplifting = Police
Copyright Infringement = Lawyers

Illegal downloading is not stealing, and illegal downloaders are not thieves. Copyright like the patent system is worthless and only serves to destroy innovation.

[edit on 19-10-2009 by quackers]

Originally posted by quackers
Illegal downloading is not stealing, and illegal downloaders are not thieves. Copyright like the patent system is worthless and only serves to destroy innovation.

Record Companies/People who sell there music over the internet themselfs would disagree. If i take (steal) music from someones site then put it on a network to be downloaded, the people who download that music aware or not are downloading stolen music.

If it weren't for copytight people would just be copying other people, wheres the innovation? Copyright is there to protect so people don't copy other people, so therefore they can use there Imagination to come up with something new.

Tsom87

reply to post by TSOM87


They can disagree all they like, it will not change the fact that copyright infringement and theft are two completely different things.

If it weren't for copytight people would just be copying other people

Have you looked at the charts? It is full of copyright protected plagiarism. Imagination? Plenty of people use their imagination, in fact, an ever increasing number of new artists have been using their imagination and realised that copyright is its present form is pointless, and utterly reject it in favour of fairer options like Creative Commons.

Copyright is there primarily to protect revenue, the negative effect of which is stifling talent by preventing the use of material unless there is a monetary exchange. Using someone elses work as the basis for a new creation should not be hindered in any way, especially not for the sake of money.

Originally posted by TSOM87
I don't care if an artist has millions in the bank and is with a huge record company making billions year in year out and there album is dear. Thats no excuse to steal.

Yes it is, thats the reasons millions of people do it, the record companies and bands aren't about to go bankrupt.

I'm not going to spend my hard earned cash continually lining the pockets of some filthy rich middle man whose been ripping us off for decades.

Surely people make music for people to listen to, in which case they can play live, which is where most artists make their money anyway.

You do what you're told to do by all means, I'm not sure that anyone is going to hell for copyright infringment.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by Koka]

gee u guis could have replied...
why should i spend money on a CD (that gets rotten after a week) and the quality is 192 kbps (terrible terrible) and its 440hz.
i can just download it from piraatezz with FLAC quality and never worry about cd's
they can atleast sell theyr music in dvds or something.
i would pay money from the canadian guy who writes his songs in 432hz though,hes songs sound so elusive,he DESERVES the money

Originally posted by quackers
They can disagree all they like, it will not change the fact that copyright infringement and theft are two completely different things.

Back up.....am not saying its not called Copyright infringement. I'am not disagreeing with that. What i'am saying is that people who have music taken from there site see it as stealing/theft. The example that i gave was not to say that its not called Copyright infringement.

Where's the Innovation in copying what another artist has allready created with his own Imagination. Elvis, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Guns N' Roses, Kasabian and others have all thrived under the copyright law, why can't others?

Tsom87

reply to post by Stillalive


Why dont you buy it over itunes or a online store like it? There are other options other than illegal downloading. Saves you breaking the law.

Tsom87

Originally posted by Koka
[I'm not sure that anyone is going to hell for copyright infringment.
[edit on 20-10-2009 by Koka]

I wouldn't bet againsts it!

I agree that albums where relly dear. Though you can get good deals online if you search, better option than breaking the law.

Tsom87

Originally posted by TSOM87
reply to post by Stillalive

 

Why dont you buy it over itunes or a online store like it? There are other options other than illegal downloading. Saves you breaking the law.

Tsom87

Itunes doesn't have a lot the obscure metal bands I listen to, and when they are actually for sale on ebay and the likes they're generally way too expensive for me.

Originally posted by TSOM87

Originally posted by Koka
[I'm not sure that anyone is going to hell for copyright infringment.
[edit on 20-10-2009 by Koka]

I wouldn't bet againsts it!

I agree that albums where relly dear. Though you can get good deals online if you search, better option than breaking the law.

Tsom87

I would bet against it, you can only go to hell if you believe the place exists, I don't.

There are many laws I do not agree with and they don't get changed unless you oppose them, just going along with them to avoid getting into trouble is hardly an option.

If you really believe that god sits and ponders on the various bits of legislation invoked across the world each week by man and then has to decide which of the commandments it falls under, it is my belief that you are deluding yourself.

God: You have downloaded illegally, according to man's law, and therefore my law, two Britney Spears tracks without contributing to her ever increasing millions, off to hell with you..!!

Originally posted by TSOM87
Illegal Downloading of Music Movies ect is wrong, theres no way about it. Its true what they say, its just like walking into HMV ASDA Tesco or Walmart and taking it without paying. Though the chances of getting caught are much slimmer. Now its easy to sit back and say ''Theres worser thing in the world happening'' ''These Artists are making millions'' ''Albums are far to dear''. Try investing your OWN money and time in any Artisitc idea then lets see what your reaction will be. Anybody with half a brain will know its wrong and illegal.

These Record companies and Movie companies whether they be big ones or Independants at the end of the day they are investing money to make make money, not lose it. That also goes for Artists who also invest there money and time. If you are willing to make music or movies with your OWN money and give it away for free, thats you right. Nothing wrong with that.

Now i have nothing to with Music business or Movie Business. It just gets to me when you hear people trying justify illegal downloading. If i find something too dear that i like, i'll save up money then buy it or if i don't agree with the price i'll try finding it somewhere else or not buy it at all. For some people though its ''Oh thats to dear...i'll steal it.

I don't care if an artist has millions in the bank and is with a huge record company making billions year in year out and there album is dear. Thats no excuse to steal.

I would like to hear your views on this subject. I would like to hear people and justify illegal downloading.

Tsom87

How come they don't lower their prices? Then there wouldn't be any Illegal Downloading.

Originally posted by Koka
There are many laws I do not agree with and they don't get changed unless you oppose them, just going along with them to avoid getting into trouble is hardly an option.

Well, IMO, its a better option than Breaking The Law. The many laws you don't like, do you go out Breaking them aswell? You don't have to Break the law if you happen to oppose something.

LOL what makes you think i believe God sits and ponders? Is it bcause i have quoted from the bible on my sig?

Tsom87