No plane theory is a Hoax!!!

Originally posted by nwodeath

THAT'S how I spot the disinfo clowns from the real truth researchers.
When you put tons of effort into one thing, like debunking No Planes Theories, then it becomes obvious there is an agenda taking place, not just some innocent interest in truth.

Actually, that describes the truth researchers more than it does anyone else. When, for example, we hear of a passenger jet that crashed in Shanksville, the only way anyone would automatically assume that an arcraft DIDN'T crash there, and the gov't faked a crash site but then turned around and covered up the crash site they faked, is if there's an agenda taking place that overrides the desire to seek the truth.

Like passenger jet crashes are some rare and unheard of event that can never happen?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by nwodeath

THAT'S how I spot the disinfo clowns from the real truth researchers.
When you put tons of effort into one thing, like debunking No Planes Theories, then it becomes obvious there is an agenda taking place, not just some innocent interest in truth.

Actually, that describes the truth researchers more than it does anyone else. When, for example, we hear of a passenger jet that crashed in Shanksville, the only way anyone would automatically assume that an arcraft DIDN'T crash there, and the gov't faked a crash site but then turned around and covered up the crash site they faked, is if there's an agenda taking place that overrides the desire to seek the truth.

Like passenger jet crashes are some rare and unheard of event that can never happen?

Actually, anyone who believes every single aspect of something is a tool for sure. If you question nothing you will learn nothing. I'm not saying this is you, but there are many here and abroad that fall into that category.

Originally posted by nwodeath
But there is more evidence for NO Planes than there is, for planes

You and the rest of the no-plane disinfo artists keep saying without having to show any actual scientific proof. I won't be holding my breath for any proof either...

Originally posted by thesneakiod
A lot of the TM phonies here only ever post on NPT threads anyway. It seems to be that's all they are on ATS for. (hello bonezzzzzzzzzz).

Somebody's gotta keep the NPT disinfo in check and make sure that when NPT threads are made, that people coming to read those threads know how NPT is disinfo against the real facts in the real world.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I am open to discussing any red herring and I don't rely on the collapse of the two towers alone to suggest anything, I believe there are other reasons to have suspicions that are highly circumstantial.

This is about the NO PLane belief that is invented by people to bring the Truth Movement down.

The behaviour of these "No Planers" seem very similar to "Debunkers" who "debunk" Ufo's.

#1. Debunkers always suggest that the corroborated eyewitnesses are wrong.

#2. Debunkers almost always cry "CGI!" wherever I turn!


I personally don't believe that the people who started this did this with intentions of "TRUTH" Finding.

It could be that a few of them are in this for some coin, but I am comforted that the majority, the vast majority of the Truth Movement has rejected this nonsense and we have proven we are not a bunch of gullible individuals ready to believe any internet rumor.



[edit on 21-10-2009 by talisman]

[edit on 21-10-2009 by talisman]

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by thesneakiod
A lot of the TM phonies here only ever post on NPT threads anyway. It seems to be that's all they are on ATS for. (hello bonezzzzzzzzzz).

Somebody's gotta keep the NPT disinfo in check and make sure that when NPT threads are made, that people coming to read those threads know how NPT is disinfo against the real facts in the real world.

People ought to know about the disinformation agents that spread the anti NPT propaganda. There were no planes that day, and none hit the WTC.

Someone has to keep the planehuggers in check.

reply to post by nwodeath


So what your saying is that Wayne Gretzky's former teamate and then scout for the Los Angeles Kings wasn't on that plane(UA-175) Is that what your saying? ARe you also saying he didn't die?

myfriendsphotos.tripod.com...

Scroll down for his picture, I have seen him play many times, Is he now part of the said plot??



[edit on 21-10-2009 by talisman]

Originally posted by nwodeath
There were no planes that day, and none hit the WTC.

Scientific or professional analysis please, or everything you type will continue to be disinfo, thanks.

No plane theory was created by debunkers and anti-truthers as a way to discredit the movement. This thread was debunked so another thread was allowed to be started.

Debunkers love to keep these threads going. Give up. You only reveal yourself and your agenda.

You will eventually pay for it.

reply to post by CaptainAmerica2012


Here we go with yet another poster who's been here a few months, so this is only the second thread on the NPT eh? Do a search there's tons of them.

People like you and bonezzzzzzzzzz are so predictable. All you ever say is believers of the NPT are disinfo artists or have a secret agenda, then bang on about the Truth Movement being hurt in the process. So what, you can start yet another thread on why the towers collapsed? Stroll on.

The truth movement does absolutely nothing what so ever to help in justice, you all just pat yourselves on the back and say what a great job you're doing. And a few people on an Internet site concerning only their opinions whilst ignoring other topics is not a movement, its not even a scurry.

Most on here are scared to post their feelings if they take an interest in the NPT. The abuse you recieve is disgusting and must be the only subject that the mods ignore and let happen. Im certainly not, like most on the NPT a disinformation artist, or have a agenda. Get that through to your ignorant skulls please. Posting only on one subject to spout abuse, now that is suspicious to say the least.

Let it be known that I couldn't give a rats ass about the TM. Justice for those who died certainly, but not for an ass licking group of self centered justice wannabes.

Originally posted by jprophet420
Actually, anyone who believes every single aspect of something is a tool for sure. If you question nothing you will learn nothing. I'm not saying this is you, but there are many here and abroad that fall into that category.

I absolutely, positively, agree with this statement...though probably not for the same reason you do.

Take for example the 9/11 commission report. I would think that it would be the conspiracy theorists' obligation to read the report, particularly if they think it's one great big lie, so that they can actually identify the lies and rip it to shreds in front of any and all defenders....but I have yet to encounter a SINGLE conspiracy theorist who actually read it. They simply want to believe some other scenario they read on a conspiracy web site somewhere, so they just say it's one great big lie in knee jerk reflex. If it's a lie, all right, fine, but when I ask them specifically what is in the report that's a lie, becuase they never actually read it, they simply direct me to some OTHER conspiracy web site they read, which invariably gripes about things the report never even included to begin with.

Thus, when 100,000 eyewitnesses saw the planes, 500 cameras from every angle shows the planes, the wreckage from the planes were found showing it was a plane, and even someone on this very board says they saw it was a plane...and yet the no planers STILL don't believe it... I have to believe the obvious bias of the no planers, and the obvious bias of the conspiracy theorists as a whole, are really one and the same.

reply to post by CaptainAmerica2012


This is a very odd allegation:

No plane theory was created by debunkers and anti-truthers as a way to discredit the movement.

...considering the fact that even JOHN LEAR has repeatedly and publicly advocated the "No-Planes" theory...hasn't he???

Now, I'm confused....JOHN LEAR is to be considered a "debunker" and "anti-truther"???

Originally posted by talisman
I personally don't believe that the people who started this did this with intentions of "TRUTH" Finding.

It could be that a few of them are in this for some coin, but I am comforted that the majority, the vast majority of the Truth Movement has rejected this nonsense and we have proven we are not a bunch of gullible individuals ready to believe any internet rumor.

Now THAT brings up another interesting thought- just what DOES the truth movement believe to begin with? I've talked to a lot of self declared truthers over the last few years, and so far, I've been told...

-Controlled demolitions brought the towers down
-thermite brought the towers down
-a nuke in the basement brought the towers down
-lasers from outer space brought the towers down
-Explosives hidden in the structure when it was originally built brought the towers down
-A remote controlled passenger jet hit the Towers
-Mocked up air force bombers hit the Towers
-an armed craft fired missiles at the towers, before crashing into the towers.
-NOTHING hit the towers
-a cruise missile hit the Pentagon
-a global hawk/Predator type drone hit the Pentagon
-an armed craft fired missiles at the Pentagon, before crashing into the Pentagon.
-NOTHING hit the Pentagon
-NOTHING crashed in Shanksville
-Bush was behind the plot
-Cheney was behind the plot
-the military industrial complex was behind the plot
-The Jews were behind the plot
-The masons were behind the plot
-The illuminati was behind the plot
-A cult of Satan worshippers were behind the plot


...but I have no idea whatsoever what percentage of people who identify themselves as truthers believe which scenario. The only universal beliefe I can see is that everyone believes they're right, and everyone else is wrong, even if the "everyone else" includes other truthers. Thus, how can you define what "the majority" is when you don't even have a cohesive group to even refer to as an actual population to begin with.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


All that one has to assert is a "core" or "base" allegation. While, evidence and arguments may differ, the general consensus agreed upon despite the differences is that we need a true and unbiased investigation and that the story sold is poorly inadequate.

The Truth Movement as in any movement will have large differences, this is to be expected especially in light of the vacuum created by the Gov.

I do not consider something as ludicrous and ridiculous as NO PLanes to be part of the Truth Movement in any way shape or form. It is obvious that New York City is a large City with a huge population, that is enough to suggest there were planes that day and there is no need for doubt. Anyone who continues with such a theory fly's against that one solid fact and they either do so intentionally or they have serious issues and or are gullible in the extreme.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by talisman]

Originally posted by talisman

All that one has to assert is a "core" or "base" allegation. While, evidence and arguments may differ, the general consensus agreed upon despite the differences is that we need a true and unbiased investigation and that the story sold is poorly inadequate.

I agree, and in fact I would support further investigations even if we all did agree on the real reasons for the collapse of the towers. Have as many investigations as you'd like. We pretty well know that it was an iceberg that sank the titanic. but continued investigation into the sinking is still fascinating. One expedition to the wreck discovered a pair of adult women's shoes, next to a pair of little girl's shoes, with a comb in between them, in one of the state rooms. They theorize that as the ship was sinking a mother trapped on the ship was combing her daughters hair to keep her calm, before the end. Whoa! I wish I knew who that woman was, I'd nominate her for "Mother of the century".

At any rate, the question still remains- if someone is so zealously in love with a particular scenario, and this "no planes" scenario is a sterling case in point, what investigation could there ever be that would settle the question once and for all? We already see how people here think the no planers are themselves secret agents putting out disinformation, so why wouldn't they simply brush off any further investigation results as being gov't disinformation, if it contradicted what they wanted to believe?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by jprophet420
Actually, anyone who believes every single aspect of something is a tool for sure. If you question nothing you will learn nothing. I'm not saying this is you, but there are many here and abroad that fall into that category.

I absolutely, positively, agree with this statement...though probably not for the same reason you do.

Take for example the 9/11 commission report. I would think that it would be the conspiracy theorists' obligation to read the report, particularly if they think it's one great big lie, so that they can actually identify the lies and rip it to shreds in front of any and all defenders....but I have yet to encounter a SINGLE conspiracy theorist who actually read it. They simply want to believe some other scenario they read on a conspiracy web site somewhere, so they just say it's one great big lie in knee jerk reflex. If it's a lie, all right, fine, but when I ask them specifically what is in the report that's a lie, becuase they never actually read it, they simply direct me to some OTHER conspiracy web site they read, which invariably gripes about things the report never even included to begin with.

Thus, when 100,000 eyewitnesses saw the planes, 500 cameras from every angle shows the planes, the wreckage from the planes were found showing it was a plane, and even someone on this very board says they saw it was a plane...and yet the no planers STILL don't believe it... I have to believe the obvious bias of the no planers, and the obvious bias of the conspiracy theorists as a whole, are really one and the same.

That kinda pisses me off, because I've read it. As a matter of fact, someone on these very forums said the same thing you just did, but they said it to me directly. It turns out I had read the report and they hadn't. It also pisses me off that the phrase "pack of lies" was coined and applied to everyone that does not agree. I never called it a pack of lies. I never called it 100% accurate either, as it is neither.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


But that is putting the cart before the horse. The fact is we haven't had the investigation yet. The fact is that they didn't even want to investigate this.

Now as for people's reactions you can't control that, however, if the new investigation was open and fair, the people that remain questioning such will be marginalized much like the NO Plane Theorists.

The point is that the majority of what people think is what people want to reach.

I for one have no interested in arguing with people who are not serious and just babble nonsense about how something should've looked on camera, what color the plane was, and why did it go into the building blah, blah, blah. Anyone who is honest and sincere after seeing the facts can see that is just pure B.S and I am shocked it never gets thrown into the Hoax Pile of Stuff that comes on ATS (UFO Hoaxes)

The only reason I am engaging such insanity is because of the honest people who get confused or the fence sitting people. Often it is the young who are confused about such issues and there is a certain obligation I feel.

Originally posted by talisman
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

But that is putting the cart before the horse. The fact is we haven't had the investigation yet. The fact is that they didn't even want to investigate this.

Now as for people's reactions you can't control that, however, if the new investigation was open and fair, the people that remain questioning such will be marginalized much like the NO Plane Theorists.

The point is that the majority of what people think is what people want to reach.

I for one have no interested in arguing with people who are not serious and just babble nonsense about how something should've looked on camera, what color the plane was, and why did it go into the building blah, blah, blah. Anyone who is honest and sincere after seeing the facts can see that is just pure B.S and I am shocked it never gets thrown into the Hoax Pile of Stuff that comes on ATS (UFO Hoaxes)

The only reason I am engaging such insanity is because of the honest people who get confused or the fence sitting people. Often it is the young who are confused about such issues and there is a certain obligation I feel.

It would be great if we could get all the planehugger stuff thrown in the Hoax bin, but fortunately, it's not up to the people on ATS to make determinations of what is fake and what is real. Once something is proven to be a hoax then it is moved. When we can prove that the planehuggers are hoaxing everyone, i'm sure it will all be thrown in the hoax bin.

reply to post by nwodeath

It would be great if we could get all the planehugger stuff thrown in the Hoax bin

There is mountains of corroborated eyewitness testimony that there were planes. There is the hughe population of New York City watching the events unfold live in real time as opposed to on the Television. It is ludicrous to assume that they all went home and saw something different then what their eyes told them.

In every single event you will have people who have either missed something, or give some errors in their testimony, but when the event in question in corroborated again and again and again then that is a different story.

So the ONUS is ON YOU to show why this ludicrous garbage isn't a hoax?

Originally posted by talisman
But that is putting the cart before the horse. The fact is we haven't had the investigation yet. The fact is that they didn't even want to investigate this.

Well, that's true. According to Lee Hamilton (the guy that made the "set up to fail" statement that everyone is misquoting), he understands that everyone ran away to hide whenever he came around, becuase noone knew what his commission was up to, and it was presumed he was the hang man looking for the person to hang for 9/11. After seeing how the gov't couldn't even hand out bottles of water to hurricane survivors in New Orleans without slipping on banana peels, I absolutely positively guarantee there's more gross incompetence to be reported than what the 9/11 commission report already documented, and noone wants to be the guy who admits being asleep at the wheel on 9/11.

...but from what I'm seeing, that's NOT what the truthers want. Time and time again, they've shown they want an investigation solely and exclusively for the reason of certifying their specific conspiracy story, regardless of what the facts actually show. It, for example, we found out John Q. Public of the something or other department had a warming of an imminent terrorist attack lying forgotten beneath a pizza box in his office, would the "controlled demolitions" people believe it. On the other hand, if, for example, a followup investigation discovered the planes that hit the towers were under remote control, do you think the "No Planes" people would ever accept the verdict?

I fully acknowledge there are people who are so horrified that the gov't might do this, that they cannot accept the possibility. My point is, there are also people out there who are so horrified that it really and truly WAS a terrorist attack that they cannot accept that possibility, either.