this is nice and all but amnesty international doesnt have any weight and cant do much but make statements...

i think israel is guilty of what amnesty international has claimed. but who's going to actually do something about it? certainly not the UN! they are the role model of inaction. and the US has an israeli hand up its governments butt controlling it...every time the UN has tried the UN with its veto power steps in.

so who can do anything to punish them?

I'm sick of the whole situation over there. The fact is both Israel and the Palestinians are at fault. When an organization such as Amnesty International comes out with one of their pompous statements, they are doing nothing to help the situation. In fact, they only make it worse. If Israel is guilty of "war crimes" then what are the Palestinians guilty of? As I've said many times, as long as Arafat and Sharon are around, and you may as well add groups like Amnesty International, peace doesn't stand a chance!

Ah yes, groups like amnesty international. With such moral crusaders like this who needs any religious messiah to come and redeem us. We have these moral supermen who issue reports such as this without looking at it from both sides and considering the fact that tunnels from egypt that are used to import explosives that are used to murder israeli civilians have their exits under some of these homes. Was the compensation offered seriously considered by amnesty international? Was the civilian death toll caused by those tunnels considered? Nope. Because amnesty international is too busy being concerned with making themselves into a holy group of people above the world. They have already driven themselves into irrelevance by issuing such "reports" about some people while ignoring flagrant human rights violations by others. I'd like to see the amnesty international report condemning the use of 10 year olds as bomb detonation devices. I believe that was Palestinian human rights being trampled on by Palestinians.

Acts like that have pretty much made amnesty international's "reports" about as relevant as the "reports" in the weekly world news about the half sheep half human that lives in the basement of 7-11.

Little side note to some of those posting above. You seem to enjoy pointing out certain events, like an attack on Rafah without mentioning the causes of the event. You ignore events such as the recent shooting of civilians attending a funeral of another person killed by terrorists. Apparently such things aren't important to you. You fail to mention that the "homes" targeted in this latest bulldozing were involved in the smuggling in of weapons used to attack civilians.

The bottom line is this: No one is denying it's not nice to bulldoze homes or attack people, but by viewing it in your unfair way and making it seem like Israel is a group of bored people playing a realistic video game you do nothing but demonstrate your own lack of understanding of the situation. If you want to speak, speak in an educated fashion. The key is balance. As I said no one has denied the acts that Israel has done. Yet it's apparently OK to completely ignore any bad acts done by the Palestinians.

You will find that people will take your points more seriously when you learn what is actually happening and acknowledge the wrongdoing of both sides. Until that time enjoy the shrugs from intelligent people reminiscent of those that amnesty international gets as of late.

You have a world class military power encircling a ghetto of mud huts and opening fire with 100 tanks, many using flechettes ( think of 1000 little knives being fired from a tank) and air supported by Apache helicopters firing Tomahawks. If you're swinging a 16 lb sledgehammer to kill one ant, do you think you might snuff the harmless lady bug sitting next to it as well? Calculated intent by the highest levels of Isreli gov. to maim & kill the innocent.
That equates out to you?

excuse me for not reporting every single Israeli/Palestinian incident that occurs, but if you take a look at the ATSNN forum, you will see, in previous stories I have covered both sides of the issue. However this action by Israel does not alleviate or reduce any tensions and is not justification for death of any Israelis, For every Israeli killed in the past week tensions, several Palestinians were also killed.

The current week's toll has more Palestinians dead than Israelis. Both sides in the issue are at fault and in the wrong, but bulldozing houses and not clearly defining the terrorists from the average Palestinian is not helping Israel's cause. It behooves me that others cannot clearly see how Israeli creates more enemies every day by the actions they do.

Djarums, you have your right to your opinion and I have my own. I report stories how I see them. If you want, you can post articles daily on the Palestinian atrocities against Israel. I don't have to defend my right to post any story as I see fit.

and if Israel wants support for their actions, they need to provide proof as to the tunnels, why they needed to uproot olive trees, what does breaking up water and sewer lines also have to with these smuggling tunnels, etc, etc, etc.

BT, the mud hut dwellers seem to be doing one hell of a job with the explosives provided to them by others. Don't insult yourself by underestimating them. They don't underestimate themselves, the Israelis don't underestimate them either. I don't think you should start the trend. All you have to do is think about how these peaceful quaint little tribespeople have become so wonderfully adept at making bombs that shoot nails out, and attempted to cover such shrapnel with tainted materials and you "should" be able to see why your analogy of insect to superpower is not valid here. Your dismissal of any power in the hands of the Palestinian militant groups is sad. Yes, the majority of the Palestinian citizenry are peaceful people without weapons, but that is NOT who I'm referring to. Don't mock my points by considering the Fatah affiliated terror groups harmless.

worldwatcher, mine were less opinions than they were a request for fact. simply put, i am sick and tired of the portrayals of the evils of one side only when there are evils on two sides daily. if the stories can't be reported in the proper way then they are not stories at all. I think anyone who is posting stories to atsnn and for that matter any site trying to be a valid source of news that things should be portrayed fairly. I am not asking for a detailed account of everything the palestinians do. What i am asking for is that each and every story not set out to show the acts by the israelis to be completely unprovoked and out of the blue.

[Edited on 5-18-2004 by Djarums]

The biggest problem I see is that each side wants to prove their right. That'll never happen because both sides in this whole thing are wrong. The problem is there is so much history that people just can't leave behind. I think only Divine intervention can resolve it. And I don't mean the holier than thou crap from Amnesty International.

djarums if you really read my initial post you will clearly see I did mention Israel's reasons for their actions. I didn't exclude it or attempt to hide it. I clearly stated why Israel felt they were justified.

Another indiscriminate attack by Israel using helicopter gunships.
They have killed 13 people,out of these 13 only 3 have been identified as "gunmen".
Israel cannot make their problems go away using bulldozers and soviet-style walls.
Since Ariel Sharon came to power there has been a severe escalation of violence:-The sooner this warmonger disappears the better.

Are dangerous & a valid cause for action & concern by Israel.
But, I'm not going to make that massive leap & say Israel is justified in bulldozing & blowing apart refugee camps - both actions random and indescrimanate.
The 4 to 1 death count suffered by the Palestinians is proof enough that random & excessive force is wrong.

Commonsense, I'm with you here. I believe we have two sides that will make gestures here and there that maybe peace is possible but in the end will return to fighting. A change of leadership on both sides is a must and is the only way anything will ever get done here.

I don't know about divine intervention because I'm not gonna hold my breath for that, but I think that replacing sharon and arafat with two younger people more open to new ideas would help both sides make progress and would be the next best thing.

The 4 to 1 death count suffered by the Palestinians is proof enough that random & excessive force is wrong.

The 4 to 1 count is also a great proof of how Israel is making some progress in protecting its citizens from snipers who have no problems aiming at a prayer service at a funeral.

You and I can both agree that if it were up to Hamas and Al-Aqsa martys brigades the count would be 4 to 1 the other way. Correct?

Originally posted by Djarums

I don't know about divine intervention because I'm not gonna hold my breath for that, but I think that replacing sharon and arafat with two younger people more open to new ideas would help both sides make progress and would be the next best thing.

Well said Djarums, it is the extremes on both sides preventing peace. The only hope for peace are 2 moderates in power who aren't afraid to stand up to the extremes in thier own turf.

Djarums,
I would love to see moderates on each side replacing Sharon and Arafat. The problem is, how are they going to get there. At least the Israeli's have a process in place to elect their leaders. So Israel may have a better chance bringing a moderate forward. The Palestinians however would have a much more difficult time because an effective electoral process doesn't exist. Unfortunately, it's just one hardliner appointing another. Maybe when the Palestinian people see through the lies, change will be demanded. However, a little Divine intervention wouldn't hurt.

Let's make sure we don't mention the difference of targeting combatants and targeting a school bus or public city bus full of people going to work or school. I don't see the Israeli government putting bombs into pizza places or nightclubs. There is a large difference. I am not saying the way the situation is being handled is right but there is alot more good Israel does then they get credit for. As little as Israel has they still spend tens of billions of dollars to make weapons smarter to cut down on casualties. If Israel was as ruthless as many of you try and make it sound don't you think they would just use regular bombs rather then spend millions of dollars for 1 target? Israel is fighting the conflict in the most humane means possible. Although war is inhumane in itself at least one side is doing everything it possibly can to not kill civilians who arent even in the conflict. "It's like fighting an armed person who only has a rock with a gun." Your looking at it from the wrong perspective. If Israel went on foot to try and capture or kill just that one person do you not realize there would be far more casualties then sending in a gunship to hover over a city and wait till the best time to reduce casualties? Israel is doing all they can to inflict less death. The palestinians however make no comparison from a civilian to a soldier. They just dont have regard for human life. You can see when they prefer to bomb a pizza place, nightclub, or family eating dinner on a religious holiday. The only motive of these terrorists is to inflict the highest amount of death to civilians as possible. They have no regard for human life. The palestinians do not want smart weapons because they decrease the amount of deaths instead they would rather make a bomb with thousands of nails covered in harmfull materials to kill and hurt as many innocent people as possible. I see a major difference between the two..

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Raphael]

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Raphael]

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Raphael]