Judges 6 (New International Version)

Judges 6

Gideon

1 Again the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the LORD, and for seven years he gave them into the hands of the Midianites. 2 Because the power of Midian was so oppressive, the Israelites prepared shelters for themselves in mountain clefts, caves and strongholds. 3 Whenever the Israelites planted their crops, the Midianites, Amalekites and other eastern peoples invaded the country. 4 They camped on the land and ruined the crops all the way to Gaza and did not spare a living thing for Israel, neither sheep nor cattle nor donkeys. 5 They came up with their livestock and their tents like swarms of locusts. It was impossible to count the men and their camels; they invaded the land to ravage it. 6 Midian so impoverished the Israelites that they cried out to the LORD for help.
7 When the Israelites cried to the LORD because of Midian, 8 he sent them a prophet, who said, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I brought you up out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 9 I snatched you from the power of Egypt and from the hand of all your oppressors. I drove them from before you and gave you their land. 10 I said to you, 'I am the LORD your God; do not worship the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you live.' But you have not listened to me."

11 The angel of the LORD came and sat down under the oak in Ophrah that belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, where his son Gideon was threshing wheat in a winepress to keep it from the Midianites. 12 When the angel of the LORD appeared to Gideon, he said, "The LORD is with you, mighty warrior."

13 "But sir," Gideon replied, "if the LORD is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all his wonders that our fathers told us about when they said, 'Did not the LORD bring us up out of Egypt?' But now the LORD has abandoned us and put us into the hand of Midian."

14 The LORD turned to him and said, "Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian's hand. Am I not sending you?"

15 "But Lord , [a] " Gideon asked, "how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family."

16 The LORD answered, "I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites together."

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In the first verse you will see how it says how Israel because of its sins was given to oppressive powers, the Jews had strayed away and the protection from God was no longer with them, they were open to attack.
They were given to oppressive powers from the East, today we have the Islamic oppressive Middle East ideologies at their door step wanting to take away their rights and freedoms and even their nation. Can people not see that this has happened before? Tell me how this story is not similar to today, tell me that is not once more the case, this is not even prophecy it is history repeating itself and the relationship with God and the Jews that needs to be fulfilled.

People will blame the Jews for this never ending story, but it is because God is with them and it is because when they reject God they are no longer protected and cannot hold his bargain of the promise.

This is also true in modern times; we saw that in WW2 with the Nazi's it happened in 650ish AD with the Arab conquests and in Medieval Europe where they have been running in circles being prosecuted. They built strong Holds, like today we have the Gaza Wall, so does Egypt keeping them out.

These Midianites ruined the local economy of Israel they swarmed in with little to give back in terms of advanced social culture, they even ruined the crops. They are referred to as Locusts, they invade socially and ruin and eat your own fruits that you bare. How is this same in today's society? Can you not see the same light coming from the Middle East, are these Locusts people of the Middle East, camel riders mentioned may say so? In the book of Revelations there are Locusts and the battle of Armageddon set in Iraq Babylon where 200 million will go to war, so my guess is that Locusts are the Middle East people because they multiply quickly and like to conquest in their religious belief system. The Jews do not want a conquest, they want their spiritual home back, but they keep getting thrown out and cursed by God and given to their enemies.

So in this one story of many throughout the Bible let alone Prophecy that shows signs of repeating the same battles over and over again the parallels are the same.

There are a lot of answers in this chapter and others that give clues to today and answers to maybe prophetic language.

My conclusion is;
If the Jews worship other Gods then they are cursed.
If the Jews stray away and their enemies will gather.
Enemies in Jewish Christian societies are like Locusts consuming and eating away.
These Locusts consume and breed very quickly bringing destruction to society.
The Jews are blessed and helped once they turn back to God.
God will defeat their enemies even if they are outnumbered.
Jews must recognise Israel as their home; even Jews today are against Israel.
They must trust in God and not be scared of all those against them.
Sometimes Israel does Evil and the backlash shows on the international stage.

[edit on 18-10-2009 by The time lord]

[edit on 18-10-2009 by The time lord]

[edit on 18-10-2009 by The time lord]

I don't need the Bible only, we can see the evidence on TV and newspapers and history it self. There is a hidden pattern when it comes to Israel when America is concerned, whenever America makes decisions against Israel the Nation suffers a disaster or an economic breakdown, this has occured when America failed Israel. If Obama fails Israel you will see America spiral down very quickly in a spiritual coincidence of failiers.

The main issue here is prophecy and history repeating it self, the Bible knows that enemies will gather around Israel in the end times, it start off in the middle east and then the nations will point to Israel, this is the endtime scenario.

My other connection with the prophetic wording of Locusts is the multitudes of people like for example in places like Mecca who pray on their knees and bending to the ground in a Locus position.

We know Biblically the Jews who sway away are cursed but when they find them selves they are strong and protected. They abandonned their land, they have travelled Europe and the Middle East and they have been victims of invasion and genocide, but they never went home where they belonged, this is how it is worded in my eyes of how God works with them like a protective barrier.

Jerusalem's Enemies to Be Destroyed

An Oracle

1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the LORD. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, 'The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the LORD Almighty is their God.'
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[edit on 20-10-2009 by The time lord]

I don't know whether history repeats itself or whether we're just pre-disposed to look for patterns in events and draw the parallels that suit our point of view.

Reality is fractal by nature - the more closely you look at the details, the more the picture changes. Therefore I think that anyone's grasp on reality is an educated guess at best, and so is much of our interpretation of historical events.

Not much else to add to this thread.

Interesting discussion though

Some people see it as Karma, they see some things as curses and blessings, I guess human nature does that but so does spiritual nature because as a species we are close to God. There is a Karma effect and a balance to it all in the Bible, no doubt many civilisations have come and gone, but the Ishmael Isaac conflict has never changed since Abraham's time.

It is a hard subject to bring up if you don't see the whole scope of it, you have to watch the news and see the patterns as the years roll by, otherwise you will have to start from scratch and this is taking all of history into account and then filter through the patterns.

But interestingly enough is that these fractals come to a stop, there will be a time where it will go global, this will be caused to happen, we have seen the tensions in the Middle East, we have seen the world go nuclear and a new arms race and debate over Iran. Even the Bible mentions Iran and Russia, in Ezekiel 38 end of world prophecy, it cannot be just coincidence.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by The time lord]

I don't think I made a good example of a thread here I think I might have missed some vital points in what I was trying to say.

For example the whole Old testament shows the how when the Jews went off to other gods God would not defend them and their enemies would round them up untill one person who was good in nature and listened to God turned the whole situation around.

WW2 is an example on two fronts one being that the Jewish Return was being planned some did not want to go back and fate made man recognise they should go back to Israel since it was an open case country again after the Ottoman empire failed.
Because of this plan to go back Hitler was spawned and the Arabs did not help in their opinion about the Jews which then we saw a genocide as the answer to the Jewish problem. Even with their return was a fight famously called the 6 day war and today there is conflict on all sides.

The other thing is that they were too settled in Europe and did not listen to what their scriptures told and this can sometimes have an effect on them when they don't listen to God so it is on two fronts.

The Biblical pattern of the Jewish struggle as a people is evident in the Bible but so is the consequence of their unbelief.


Hosea 3:4-5 - "For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or idol. Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to his blessings in the last days."

Ezekiel 20:34 - "I will bring you from the nations and gather you from the countries where you have been scattered -- with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath."

Isaiah 11:11-12 NIV - "In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea. He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth."

Many Jews were expelled from Arab #ries in the last centry alone.

Jeremiah 32:44 NIV - "Fields will be bought for silver, and deeds will be signed, sealed and witnessed in the territory of Benjamin, in the villages around Jerusalem, in the towns of Judah and in the towns of the hill country, of the western foothills and of the Negev, because I will restore their fortunes, declares the LORD."

Sign #4: Israel - Reborn in a day

Israel, a nation that had not really existed as a separate nation for nearly 2,500 years, was declared a new sovereign state by an act of the United Nations on May 14, 1948. The nation was born in a day.

Isaiah 66:8 NIV - "Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labour than she gives birth to her children."

Sign #5: The order of the return

The first returning Jews to Palestine came primarily from eastern Arab countries. The next major movement came from the western countries of Europe, especially Germany. Then they came in great numbers from Russia (north) during the end of the 1980's. The last great migrations of Jews returning to Israel came from Ethiopia in the south. This precise order of return was predicted by Isaiah the prophet.

Isaiah 43:5-6,21 - "Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, `Give them up!' and to the south, `Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth..."

"... the people I formed for myself that they may proclaim my praise."

Psalm 107:2-3 NIV - "Let the redeemed of the LORD say this -- those he redeemed from the hand of the foe, those he gathered from the lands, from east and west, from north and south.

The restoration of the agriculture and of the trees and forests of Israel has been another remarkable miracle. Scarcely 75 years ago, the land was a desolate waste, full of malarial swamps and deserts. Today the replanted forests are flourishing and the Israeli agricultural production is one of the great wonders of the world. This tiny country exports quality produce around the world. Should we say, "Again, just as predicted!"

Isaiah 26:6 NIV - "In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit."

Isaiah 35:1-2 NIV - "The desert and the parched land will be glad; the wilderness will rejoice and blossom. Like the crocus, it will burst into bloom; it will rejoice greatly and shout for joy...."
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It is not just Gideon but many books that show the same pattern for the Jews who had to flee because of of war, floowed by persecution, stayed away to other gods, reclaimed God, find their country again, rebuilt thier old cities and now have to defend what they have because the East is pushing against them.

Just an extention of above post with a few corrections:

I don't think I made a good example of a thread here I think I might have missed some vital points in what I was trying to say.

For example the whole Old Testament shows how when the Jews went off to serve other gods and idols, God would not defend them and their enemies would round them up until one person who was good in nature and listened to God turned the whole situation around.

WW2 is an example on two fronts one being that the Jewish Return was being planned some did not want to go back to the land and fate made man recognise they should go back to Israel since it was an open case country again after the Ottoman Empire failed. Both Palestine and Babylon Israel and Iraq today were open ended countries. The Jews got Palestine and it turned to Israel and Arabs got Babylon which became Iraq.

Anyway because of this plan to go back to their homeland Hitler was spawned like some devil incarnate and the Arabs did not help in their opinion about the Jews which and eventually with no one on their side it was too late then we saw genocide as the answer to the Jewish problem. Even with their return it became war and led to 1967s famously called 6 day war and today there is conflict on all sides from terrorist groups and Middle East nations always make threats against them to this very day.

The other thing is that they were too settled in Europe and did not listen to what their scriptures told and this can sometimes have an effect on them when they don't listen to God so it is on two fronts. They will always have an enemy on their tail but their lack of faith open the floodgates even more and winning the 6 day war just shows what they can achieve. As a religious minority they are great scientists, writers, business people and film makers in the world and because of that success there is great paranoia and jealousy about them. I believe it is down to their genes preserved like the Bible says from the pure bloodlines of Adam which make them a little different.

The Biblical pattern of the Jewish struggle as a people is evident in the Bible but so is the consequence of their unbelief.
I
t is not just Gideon but many books that show the same pattern for the Jews who had to flee because of war, followed by persecution, stayed away to other gods, reclaimed God, find their country again, rebuilt their old cities and now have to defend what they have because the East is pushing against them.

Also I like to point out that this same pattern is ocurring now, many crocs are waiting underwater to pounce on them unless there are lions and eagles to help them out.

This pattern will also be true before the return of Christ it is no secret and it all has to do with Israel and the world right now has had their eye on them like no other country and like no other country today have they so many enemies, then you ask why does the Bible even focus on that part of the world.

I kind of worked my way backwards in this theory or I saw the patterns of the Jewish relationship with God of the Bible of having modern and historical evidence of the parallels they draw.

I have not read all the Bible and I am sure there are a lot of issues I have not asked my self but I know the key elements of the faith. The more I read the more it backs it self up and makes sense.

I should in a way have titled this thread Nehemiah 9 because it says what I wanted to say spot on, it sums up the past and present of God with the Jews under his vision.


Nehemiah 9
The Israelites Confess Their Sins


26 “But they were disobedient and rebelled against you; they turned their backs on your law. They killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you; they committed awful blasphemies. 27 So you delivered them into the hands of their enemies, who oppressed them. But when they were oppressed they cried out to you. From heaven you heard them, and in your great compassion you gave them deliverers, who rescued them from the hand of their enemies.

28 “But as soon as they were at rest, they again did what was evil in your sight. Then you abandoned them to the hand of their enemies so that they ruled over them. And when they cried out to you again, you heard from heaven, and in your compassion you delivered them time after time.


This same seesaw ride with God is the same situation as 1948 and WW2, everything we did (the world) man did to them throughout history, today the Jews have a similar problem with many tribes and nations plotting against them and the pattern continues till the end of days till the worlds hatred of Israel will bring about prophetic conclusions upon themselves and people still have free will and some of that free will is to oppose this nation and people. The open mouthed rejection will cause this to be the case.