Ring UFOs, once again...

so what are these ring UFOs? an cloaked disc? an living entity?
















www.decadevolcano.net...

Just a major update on the black ring sighting over Kings Dominion, its was only the other day i joined the dots and realised there was a long history of black ring Ufos reported in Virginia dating back to the 50's . Previous reports i did on the black ring ufos which i did years ago happened to occur in the same area .. You can read more about the interesting topic of ring ufos by using the 'search function' (top right) on the blog When Denna Smith's family saw a black ring floating over the theme park they were visiting, they pointed their video camera to the sky.Kings Dominion, the Virginia theme park, said what the family caught on tape was just smoke from a roller coaster called Volcano: The Blast Coaste

its hard to say what it really is

Not sure realy but the second video is deffinately a swarm of something either insects, birds or something along them lines.

These are nothing more than smoke rings.

A couple of videos to compare:




And one from TeslaDownunder (an ATS member):




[edit on 18/10/09 by Chadwickus]

I agree, with Chadwickus, they are definately all smoke rings. The third video is about the series of six photos taken in fort Belvior, also investigated by W. K. Hartmann (Condon Report).

One morning in September, 1957 an Arm private at Fort Belvoir, Va. was called from his barracks by his buddies to witness what appeared to be a black, ring-shaped UFO approaching. The private grabbed his Brownie camera and snapped 6 pictures of it, of which this was the first. After about 5 minutes, the black ring, which appeared "solid" to the soldier and glided steadily along, began to be "engulfed in white smoke."

www.ufoevidence.org...

From the Condon report:

Abstract:
A black ring that became obscured by an opaque white cloud, reportedly witnessed by about 15 persons and photographed by the principal witness, is identified as the by-product of an "atom bomb simulation demonstration" on the army base.
Background:
Time: Approx. 9 a.m.
Position: Looking NNE past building T741, Fort Belvoir, Va.
Terrain: Gently rolling hills with scattered technical buildings, residential areas, and woods.
Weather Conditions: Exact date unknown; hence weather conditions unavailable. Photographs show scattered cloud cover.
Sighting, General Information:

Private X, who worked as a draftsman with Post Engineers (1), has given the following account of the visual and photographic sighting. He was in one of several buildings facing on a parking lot flanked by buildings T741 and T742 (1,3). Someone from the outside called for the men to come out and see the curious object approaching overhead. Pvt. X and several others came out in time to see a dark, ringshaped object approaching in the north. He ran to his car in the parking lot and got his Kodak Brownie camera (1,2,5).

Pvt. X thought the black ring "seemed solid," as opposed to being "like smoke" (2), although he also stated that it was not metallic, shiny, or dull, but very black with no reflection (1).

www.ncas.org...



Plate 32
Ft. Belvoir photo 1. The army private who took the photographs was called from his building to see the approaching object, which appeared to be a black, non-reflecting ring.
www.ncas.org...


Plate 33
Ft. Belvoir photo 2.
www.ncas.org...


Plate 34
Ft. Belvoir photo 3.
www.ncas.org...


Plate 35
Ft. Belvoir photo 4.
www.ncas.org...


Plate 36
Ft. Belvoir photo 5.
www.ncas.org...


Plate 37
Ft. Belvoir photo 6.
www.ncas.org...


The report concluded:

In the light of identifications both by officials at Fort Belvoir and other technically competent observers familiar with the event, this case is considered positively identified as an atomic bomb simulation demonstration of the type commonly carried out at Fort Belvoir during this period.

The fact that this case did not come to light until nine years after it occurred because the witness was afraid of ridicule or possible reprimand for military security breaches testifies to the reality of the "hidden data" problem in UFO studies.

References:

Hartmann, W. K. (24 May 1967), Telephone interview with Pvt. X.
NICAP file on Ft. Belvoir incident, consisting of correspondence and interviews with Pvt. X.
Hartmann, W. K. (21 Dec. 1967), Interviews with staff personnel, Ft. Belvoir, Va.
Klass, Phillip J. (1967), Miscellaneous correspondence with Hartmann regarding Ft. Belvoir incident.


Plate 40
Stable black vortex ring detaching itself from mushroom column in "atom bomb simulation demonstration" at Ft. Belvoir. Photo courtesy of the witness.
www.ncas.org...

The full report, (Abstract, Background,General Informations about the case, Investigation and conclusions) can be found here
www.ncas.org...

While Condon Report's conclusions have been questionable more than once, i'd say that in this case their conclusion is perfectly acceptable.


In Bonnaroo (Gas cannon), they've made more than one:


Another source of smoke rings can be volcanoes (as also mentioned in the links of Wiki article)


www.stromboli.net...

and planes ...

When the warbirds flew, the show was filled with pyrotechnics, one of which made the amazing smoke ring that floated across the sky!

www.prostarmarketing.com...

reply to post by internos


The second one aint no smoke ring tho, its a swarm of insects imo. Good post on the smoke rings.

Originally posted by GezinhoKiko
reply to post by internos

 

The second one aint no smoke ring tho, its a swarm of insects imo. Good post on the smoke rings.

Thanks, GezinhoKiko:
the video in question was upped on june 15 2009
Title: Bonnaroo Smoke Ring UFO
Description:

Over a few days, several of these spun off into the air over the crowd. Sometimes they were perfect rings that appeared to be rolling on themselves. Other times it was just a cloud of smoke. I'm still trying to figure out how this was done. ...

Tags: Bonnaroo Smoke Ring UFO
www.youtube.com...

Now, for example, this photo was taken in the same location two days before:

www.flickr.com...
Credits: Rob Sheridan
Description:
Giant smoke rings rising above the Bonnaroo Festival in Manchester, TN on June 13th, 2009.
See also
www.flickr.com...

Also the video in my previous post show a smoke ring during its release in the same location, Bonnaroo.

And in another video, on Bonnaroo Music & Art festival official website, it's being shown how it was made:
community.bonnaroo.com...

And more pictures:
community.bonnaroo.com...

Including this one

which appearance looks very familiar to me, if compared with a screenshot from the Youtube video:


Bonnaroo Music & Art festival official website

Bonnaroo Music & Art festival schedule




[edit on 19/10/2009 by internos]

reply to post by internos


Wow, i stand corrected, it looks like insects but it isnt, thank you for pointing that out, star for you.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
These are nothing more than smoke rings.

Originally posted by internos
I agree, with Chadwickus, they are definately all smoke rings.

Smoke rings can sometimes linger eerily in sky and cause 'UFO' observations - and they are UFOs until they've been identified - although it's a blunt generalization to claim that all UFO ring formations are smoke rings, this is simply not the case.

The Condon Report's explanation of the Belvedere photos sounds about as intelligent as the swampgas-theory, it's debunking on Cro Magnon level IMO.

Here's a video from an airshow in Santiago, Chile, which unfortunately didn't make it into your impressive collection of smoke ring photos and videos:



[edit on 19-10-2009 by Heliocentric]

Another "smoke" ring?

reply to post by Heliocentric


Since you quoted me, here we are
1) WHO claimed that ALL the ring shaped UFOs are smoke rings, may i ask? I for example was referring to the ones of the OP: i can say just that SMOKE rings are smoke rings, not that ALL rings in the sky are smoke rings: unless you are trying to put in my mouth things that i've never said, so please clarify.

2) It's interesting that you are dismissing the report. May I ask for some evidences debunking the report or your words are proofs themselves?
I, AFTER reading carefully the whole report, have stated that

While Condon Report's conclusions have been questionable more than once, i'd say that in this case their conclusion is perfectly acceptable

, and I stick on my opinion because i have no reasons more convincing than the report itself in order to to reject their conclusion, and of course your post is far away from being convincing, (with all the due respect, of course).
By the way, what did you find out with your research about that case? Care to provide us with your evidences proving the reports conclusion wrong, or shall we take your words as proofs by themselves?

Originally posted by Heliocentric
Here's a video from an airshow in Santiago, Chile, which unfortunately didn't make it into your impressive collection of smoke ring photos and videos:

I didn't know i had to post ALL the videos of smoke rings from all over the web: and i won't. First because it would be OFF TOPIC, second, because it seems that someone else has more time than me to spend in such a research.
That said, the video was actually taken in Puncòn, NOT in Santiago: the distance between the two towns is.... 780 kilometer = 484,6 miles SO, IF the airshow actually took place in Santiago, then I have to admit that the ring was HUGE, since it has been caught on video from that far away
Anyway, it was investigated by local researchers (see below what they've found out), and they were NOT part of condon report:

Chile, 1997. The attendants of a show of the Air Force in Pucon, Chile saw much more than the acrobatics of the group "The Hawks" on the afternoon of Feb. 28. A whitish ring appeared in the air and was seen by many witnesses, while recorded on video by a local TV channel. It said much about the UFO. However, Ruminot Carlos Nunez, air traffic controller and private pilot, explained the case to the Chilean researcher Diego Zúñiga:
"I can assure that the sighted object corresponds to one ` vortex ring ', produced for the compression of a smoke column due to traction of the helix of one of Extra 300 in the acrobatic presentation. This smoke column, being compressed , blows up until the edges, with small "mushrooms". One of them, the being crossed by some "air arrow", forms a ring (Vortex Ring), whose substance (smoke), turns around its proper axle. While it keeps its rotation, it will keep the circular form. The displacement and the time that this circular form keeps will depend on the direction and intensity of the wind."

www.ceticismoaberto.com...
marcianitosverdes.haaan.com...

Basically, in order to disprove ALL smoke rings, you have posted a perfect example of smoke ring
Of course i'm not here to convince anyone, everyone is free to BELIEVE whatever he/she wants, i share what i can and end of story.
Now, care to provide us with some more informations about the last video that you have posted, please? For example Where, When, by Whom was the video taken? There were other witnesses? There has been some media coverage? Thak you in advance

Fair enough Internos, you did not say that all ring-shaped UFOs are smoke rings, so I apologize and retract. I should have expressed myself differently.

You and Chadwickus did however claim that the Fort Belvoir photographs are smoke rings, and I disagree.

I applaud you for reading the Condon report sleeve to sleeve "carefully". I have not, although I may one day, for #s and giggles.

Wasn't it a bit 'woody'?
Reasonably, we should all be be less gullible and more scientific after the Condon Report, at least stop projecting old superstitious beliefs of elves and leprechauns into fully explainable phenomenon in the skies. Mysteriously, the UFO phenomenon survived the conclusions of the report, and is still growing. Lots of it is crap, I agree, and a small percentage of it isn't.
I didn't read the whole thing, but I did read bits and pieces of it, and made myself an opinion of it. All in all it was a positive report for USAF, it got them exactly the justification they needed not to investigate UFOs-publicly.

But, between: a)They really nailed it and made a fair evaluation of the UFO phenomenon,
or b)The United States Air Force has full knowledge of UFOs and simply dished out the Condon Report for the masses in order to deflate the whole thing, I lean towards b)

So what did the report conclude?

"In the light of identifications both by officials at Fort Belvoir and other technically competent observers familiar with the event, this case is considered positively identified as an atomic bomb simulation demonstration of the type commonly carried out at Fort Belvoir during this period."

You know, if you google "atomic bomb simulation Fort Belvoir", the only thing you get are references to the UFO photos and the Condon Report's conclusion.

Doesn't mean that there weren't any. I just couldn't find any references to it elsewhere, a secret kind of bomb simulation.

Here's Fort Belvoir's Base History web page:

www.belvoir.army.mil...

I made an outline of their activities during the 50's:

In general, emphasis at Fort Belvoir in the 1950s began shifting from training to research and development. Throughout the decade, the Engineer Research and Development Laboratories (ERDL) were involved in experimentation with a wide range of technical military applications. The laboratories developed and tested new techniques for electrical power generation; camouflage and deception; methods of handling materials and fuel; bridging; and mine detection. They experimented with portable map copying machines, fungicides for use in tropical environments, and heavy earth-moving equipment. The Castle reported on ERDUs development of prefabricated buildings for use in Arctic environments, and the subsequent testing of these structures in Greenland and Canada. During the 1960s, the primary focus of research at Fort Belvoir shifted to the development of Army vehicles.

Oops, seems like they forgot to mention "atomic bomb simulations", "commonly carried out at Fort Belvoir" according to the Condon Report.

Someone should get online and rectify that,

Here's what Wikipedia says about Fort Belvoir:

Fort Belvoir is home to the United States Army Materiel Command and elements of ten other Army major commands; nineteen different agencies and direct reporting units of the Department of Army; eight elements of the U.S. Army Reserve and the Army National Guard; and twenty-six Department of Defense agencies. Also located here are the 249th Engineer Battalion (Prime Power), the U.S. Army Prime Power School, a Marine Corps detachment, a U.S. Air Force activity, U.S. Army Audit Agency, and an agency from the Department of the Treasury.

So, which one of these units were engaged in "atomic bomb simulations"? There seems to be no whatsoever mention of that either, anywhere.

By the way, if they carried out atomic bomb simulations, would they do that right over the base, and the habitations, or would they do that on a restricted testing ground somewhere far, far out? I'm just wondering, because the latter seems more logical to me.

So yes, I'm calling BS on the Condon Report, and their explanation.

I'll see if I can find some info on the other video, you might beat me to it,

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Heliocentric]

reply to post by Heliocentric


Thank you for the clarification: i'm also aware that the Condon Report had some predetermined orientation, I mean, in general, not just on single cases, so to take everything they did with a grain of salt is fully justified: I also have to admit, honestly, that the criticism over their work has way more points than the positive responses. One of the first rules in the behavior of serious researcher is to be unbiased, and the committee was not: most likely their biggest lie has been to try to pass as some unbiased group of researchers, while most of their work was rough, and some answers given to some cases look more random ones than somehow corroborated by studies ones.
But on top of that, there's the biased facet: the "Trick memo" somehow summarizes the real purpose of the project, that somehow was not that different from what we would presently call "disinfo campaign"
Sorry for making the story that long, but i thought i had to try to clarify my general take on the Condon report

In your last post you raised some serious question about the actual existence of such experiment (nice research, by the way, i've noticed the same lack of references except those related to the sighting). Now, to prove that no tests able to generate such an effect were performed
during the lapse of time in question in the area in question, would hammer the whole report, this is for sure. Also, while the data was consistent with witness account, visual evidences and conclusions, it's quite possible (given the circumstances) thatdhata were "adjusted" in order to fit the explanation, instead of visa-versa: and it would haven't been the first time.

I mean, everything is possible. What i meant for "perfectly acceptable" was the multiple consistences between data, witness, results of assessment and photos: the assessment was what i did expect to see, but of course i won't blindly endorse its 100% reliability. What seems to
be clear is that according to the chronological order of the photos, what we see seems to ascend, which would suggest some grounded starting point. An interesting point is the way the ring seems to somehow disguise itself with the clouds: honestly, that made me think. Then i've found a photo coming from series of seven taken by Birthe JENSEN in Denmark, on 1978.


The ring was a side effect of a simulated atom bomb explosion carried out at the nearby military base of Holstebro.
The image can be found here:
www.caelestia.be...

i'd say that there's some good resembleance with the second frame of this sequence

www.rense.com...
The resembleance in their ways to dissipate of course proves nothing, i've just posted it because it's one of the reasons why i've called the conclusion "acceptable"
I will try to track down the origin of the last video, maybe i've already seen it even here on ATS somewhere.
Here there's an article about another similar video, discussed here:
Very strange "Ring" UFO sighting at King's Dominion Virginia!

The article is
Volcano Coaster Causes UFO Over Kings Dominion

To find out at least the location of the video could be very helpful.

Thanks again

reply to post by GezinhoKiko


never mind looks like someone already corrected you.

[edit on 07/16/2009 by Lichter daraus]

Hello again internos,

I will comment a bit more in-depth on the running topics when I get the time to do so,

Although, one thing stood out in your last post, and it was this:

Originally posted by internos

The ring was a side effect of a simulated atom bomb explosion carried out at the nearby military base of Holstebro.
The image can be found here:
www.caelestia.be...

A very interesting picture.

It was the so-called explanation of it that intrigued me.

"A side effect of a simulated atom bomb explosion carried out at the nearby military base of Holstebro."

It so happens that I know Denmark pretty well, I even understand Danish.

I happen to know that there's a ban of atomic weapons on Danish soil in place since the 1950's, and that Denmark has vigorously defended this stance in its NATO engagements with nuclear armed allies.

There are no nuclear weapons in Denmark, not even civilian nuclear energy (voted by referendum) the Danish Military do not experiment with atomic bomb simulations, nor do any other country simulate atomic bomb explosions in Denmark.

The Military base in Holstebro is a "dragonregiment", in other words an old cavalry regiment turned tank regiment:

forsvaret.dk...

I've checked the history of this regiment (in Danish) and it mentions nothing about any atomic bomb simulations on the base, which would have been illegal by Danish law anyway.

I dare say - to a high degree of certainty - that there was never any "simulated atomic bomb explosion" at Holstebro Dragonregiment - or anywhere else in Denmark, and that the explanation of this picture is but another "Condon Report" bogus invention - which sounds good until you actually check facts.

I thought it was best to post the text from the web page caelestia:

www.caelestia.be...

It seems as if, in the 1970s, simulated atom bomb explosions experienced a burst of popularity at European military bases. Accidently or not, on October 19, 1978, one such demonstration was held at the Danish military base of Holstebro, located some 50 km (31 miles) west-southwest of Viborg. The explosion resulted in a huge smoke ring which two young passers-by described as "A white wreath which surrounded a massive black ring. The white whirling around the ring while it rose up in the sky and evaporated slowly". Fortunately, a Mrs. Birthe JENSEN, who was visiting the adjacent village of Nørre Felding that afternoon, had managed to take seven photos of the phenomenon. Mrs. JENSEN described it as "a sharply delineated black ring that dissolved and turned into a small cloud". Aware of similar incidents from the past, SUFOI collaborator Ole J. KNUDSEN contacted the base at Holstebro and was given his own recipe on how to make these wondrous rings : "You take five 200 litre petrol drums, add diesel oil and place the drums in a ring. In the middle you place 200 grams of TNT and the lot is then ignited with a white phosphor discharge. From this develops a mushroom cloud about 100 m in diameter. The top of the cloud may develop further into a concentrated black ring of smoke. Around the ring the air is whirling quite fast and in the end it loses its energy and may be seen as a small white cloud"

So, not so much an "atomic bomb simulation", just a big bomb that produces some type of mushroom cloud.

It might explain why these atomic bomb simulations are so hard to track, it's not what they are.