The Race War

I think it's coming out into the forefront. Lately on ATS...I've seen it. I've seen many comments that come off as being racist without "actually" having any racist words in them.

I think many on ATS are closet racists...and that many of them would say racist comments if they were allowed to do so....but it is not allowed.

I come from a family..and town...that seemed to be highly racist. I know it when I see it....and many here seem to be.

I've gone so far as too call out a few who I thought were..although they expressed anger...they never denied or declared that they were NOT.

Do you feel that all men/women are equal and deserve the same rights? Or...do you see others of a different color as less deserving than you are?

It even goes beyond race...as many people view homosexuals as a genetic defect or side effect...that they don't deserve the same freedoms as everyone else.

Do you believe in freedom to the individual....blind by race and religion? Or are you what you claim not to be....no "real" religious person would be racist.

Are you a racist? Are you willing to give up your good name to admit it or will you ignore it altogether and pretend that you are not?

We're ALL racist, to one extent or another, because of this horrible genetic flaw given to us by the Flying Spaghetti Monster upon our creation: we have eyes that work.

Ever see a guy walking down the street and look at him? Of course you have. Ever notice if he looks different than yourself? Notice his skin tone or possible differences in your facial structure? Or are you that pure of a human, that you merely see another bipedal entity strolling along? Don't lie...you know you looked.

Congratulations...you are now a racist, so to speak! You might not immediately think something like "Well, that fellow has dark skin, so he just might steal my bike, because some other fellow who looks similar to him did that 6 months ago!", and it's good that you don't. However, since we humans are all different in both personalities and our, if you will, "breeds", only an idiot would claim to see everyone as the same! (Or, Stephen Colbert, but then, he transcends this silliness with his awesomeness).

Rather than go through the ridiculous aggrandizing that usually encompasses the post of a white male trying to explain how they are not racist EXCEPT about this one certain point, I'm going to ask all of you to try this simple exercise:

Forget what you know and have been taught. Forget about school when the black/white/Haitian/Swiss kids messed with you in the locker room. Instead, look upon this world with the eyes of a child; unsullied with preconceptions based on experience....

Now, look at those around you in your community and observe. What do you see? There is no Jesse Jackson, no Rush Limbarghhhhhh, or even Cthulhu to guide your beliefs now....just what you witness for yourself. You get no Fox News, no CNN, and you will die if you read Entertainment Weekly. Just look at your world without the weight of the opinions and decrees of others.

You know what would happen if any of us were strong enough to do this? Were we to report what we saw concerning differences in people, we'd be called racists. Why? Because everybody's different, and even a CHILD can see that groups of people with a common likeness tend to do things in a certain way, and if you see enough of these groups, a pattern begins to form.

I know what you're thinking, but don't worry...I'm talking about white people at night clubs! THEY CAN'T DANCE TO SAVE THEIR LIVES! It's pandemic, I tell you! They all dress in a lame fashion and not a one of them can keep the beat!

But, to notice such and comment on it would, technically, be called racist in our society. Unless you're not white or a smalle child, in which case such a comment is just fine. Therein lies the problem: double standards. Double standards with harsh repercussions, all over something a toddler would innocently notice.

We're all different, people. That's not a bad thing. Groups of us tend to act in certain ways. That's a common thing in society. Noticing such shouldn't be a hate crime or be called racist. At least, that's this honkey's opinion.

So, yeah, OP, I am a racist in regards that I notice that we're not all exactly the same. There's no hate in that. Someone out there apparently likes to profit from the hate, though, so they invent it. Me, I'd just rather enjoy laughing at our differences and hopefully not getting attacked for paying attention.

We all deserve the same rights. That is because we are all humans.

That does not make me naive enough to realize that different ethnicities/races DO contain differentiated traits from one another. I also know that race/ethnicity plays a part in ones upbringing, and certain statistics that go with each race.

I am not racist. I also do not see "one color".

The beauty of this world is difference. I am different from a black or Asian man, but that does not change my respect towards them, and it does not change their rights, or make them any lesser than me.

Some may call me a "closet racist", but I call myself a realist.

It sometimes takes an idiot to point out the obvious, because the rest of us are looking right past it...

reply to post by onapaledonkey


If we are all racist by your terms, that certainly does not mean being a racist is necessarily wrong or bad.

But IMO, to judge based off a color is stereotyping, and to hate based off of a color is racist. While sometimes I might judge, I certainly do not hate. BIG DIFFERENCE.

A stereotype is an assumption based upon generalities, and that is something we all do from day to day.

Good questions, and I don't mind answering them

Do you feel that all men/women are equal and deserve the same rights? Or...do you see others of a different color as less deserving than you are?

I don't think all deserve the same rights, but I think intellectually wise, not a color or absence of a penis, or presence of a penis along with breasts... I can only really think of one spot, where the rights shouldn't be for everyone, would be voting, I stand that we should be able to pass a test, in which we must pass.

If you can't name the governor of your state you have no business voting!

But that's not racist... I don't think so...

It even goes beyond race...as many people view homosexuals as a genetic defect or side effect...that they don't deserve the same freedoms as everyone else.

I really don't know why 'the gay' occurs (lol just laugh). But it happens with almost all animals, so It doesn't surprise me it occurs in humans. My only real problem I guess with gays, would be the flamboyant attitudes, but then again that's with anyone who just burns in energy constantly, and feels the need to talk in a way were everyone just laughs awkwardly. But nope, no problem with gays, really... now that I think about it... I can't think of one reason why i'd have anything against a gay person... nope nothing.

Do you believe in freedom to the individual....blind by race and religion? Or are you what you claim not to be....no "real" religious person would be racist.

Unless their serial killers, no, but that's not stated. So it's excluded I guess.

Yes, every single individual deserves freedom. I've never heard of an animal that was born in a cage. Except for the cages made by humans. Everyone deserves freedom.

Not sure what you meant by the last sentence of that...?

Are you a racist? Are you willing to give up your good name to admit it or will you ignore it altogether and pretend that you are not?

I'd say i'm a racist, probably because I rarely have those thoughts, I'm surprised noone else has them, but hey, raised in Texas! If I see a black person, I tend to think a negative thought, but then quickly discharge it, or test it, to show myself it's wrong.

If I see an asian, I tend to think, you know martial arts, and you're a genius. It's not true, and I know it, but that little thought in the back of my mind creeps up.

I'm not so bad, I 'never' act on a creeping racist thought, and it doesn't linger around.

Today for instance, I saw a mexican man, and his pure white daughter.

I gave them a second look (at my store) and I could see it in his eyes, that he thought I was a racist, and looked at him, in a disapproving way. (look straight in someones eyes, and it tells everything about them). But all in all, he walked out of the store, laughing, and so did I! He even stuck around so we could chat it up, hilarious guy by the way, proper, respectful, someone you'd have a beer with!

BTW the look I had was confusion, because the first thing I really thought of, was maybe there was a genetic mutation, and his wife gave birth to a white child, (it's happened) and then I wondered, if I could test him and his wife to see if anything was different. lol.

Hi David!
Hows it going? Congrats on the little one! Getting big I see!
Anywho, thanks for your threads and posts! You see things clearly.

I can relate, and I know racism happens here.
And all kinds of "isms" besides!
I live in a heavily mormon influenced area of an extremely red state.
Mormons did not even allow black people to participate in many church
teachings untill 1978. So you can see there may still be some holdover.

From 1849 to 1978, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) had a policy against ordaining black men of African descent to the priesthood. Under the same policy, black men and women of African descent were prohibited from participating in the temple Endowment and sealings, ordinances that the church teaches are necessary for the highest degree of salvation.

en.wikipedia.org...
Only untill they are forced to follow laws will they, it seems.

www.mrm.org...#
Due to political pressure brought upon the LDS Church by the federal government over the issue of plural marriage, President Wilford Woodruff signed what has come to be known as The Manifesto, or Declaration 1. The Manifesto can be found following section 138 in the Doctrine and Covenants. This document was basically a promise to the United States stating that the LDS Church would submit to the laws of the land and desist from solemnizing plural marriages.

While a Mormon would be excommunicated for practicing polygamy today, the command to engage in plural marriage is still included in modern editions of the Doctrine and Covenants. Section 132:4 declares: "For behold, I reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory."

Anyway, the point I am trying to make is,
when you have kooky religious beliefs, anything is possible.
Including extreme forms of racism, exclusionism and division.
And, terrorism.

People get their spirituality and their religion all mixed up.
Dangerous combination for them and others, if you ask me.
If you heard the comments I do, you wouldn't believe it's america!
Some truly believe they are the only ones! Period.


[edit on 18-10-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


I like the cut of your jib. Your post just before the reply made perfect sense, and I applaud you for it.

As for stereotypes? I agree entirely that to hate based on one is wrong. Hell, no one should hate ANYONE unless they actually know the person, or at least have decent gossip about them from their mother-in-law's uncle's former room-mate. Stereotypes exist for a reason, though... it wasn't just one white guy in a club who couldn't dance properly... the lexicon was created by many more poor hip-movers than him.

Stereotypes, in my opinion, are awesome, as long as they aren't horribly negative. I could list some of the more common ones here that tend to be true, but we all know what they are, and I don't wish to offend the less observant out there. It's the "stereotypes" that are more recent, like "ALL MUSLIMS WANT TO KILL AMERICANS", that are obscene, because these stereotypes were not created by observation, but by the MSM shoving their selective vision down our throats.

Anyway, kudos for not hating. I don't either. It's a good way to be a nice racist. As a poor white guy living in a black neighborhood, my existence alone should atone for my beliefs, for if I were that bad, I most likely would not still be alive.

This is actually important. I believe your beliefs, and that of others, will CREATE a race war. To your question.

Do I believe I am a racist? No but YOU would probably believe I am.

Do I believe I am a GENIUS? No but NASA and Mensa do.

Do Black and Brown skinned people believe I am a Racist? Not if they have much to do with me.

Do I believe I am a tough man? No but the people who have been around me my whole life tell me I am.

Am I a Religious man? No, I am a moral man something about half of the religious people I have met in my life are NOT. I have to show them how immoral they are to get them to quit trying to save my soul.

Do white men think I am picking on them when they come to work? Yes, and they have filed complaints about it which they withdrew and apoligised to me because when taken out from my tuteledge and given another trainer they have found they now knew MORE than those assigned to train them.

Recently there was a thunderstorm just before work and my granddaughter who is two came running into my bathroom where I was getting dressed to tell me about the "BOOM BOOM's". At work I was talking about this to another white man when the black man had come in late. He oeverheard part of the conversation and turned to me and said "shut the Fxxk up." I ignored him and continued with my story until he did it again. Than I excused myself from the conversation for a moment, turned to the black man, and told him to shut his Fxxxxxxg mouth or I would put my fist in it. Obviously I am a racist. I had threatened to hit a BLACK man who had considered that my conversation about my granddaughter's excitement over thunder was a racist comment.

The thing is I "AM NOT" what people choose to see me as. I am ME not their stereotyped vision of me. So many people, yourself included, me included but at least I am constantly trying to prevent it in myself at all times, stereotype people for all kinds of reasons. The latest is racism due to Obama.

If you want to see racism you will see it whither it is there or not. I myself chose to judge people according to their actions that I see. I also choose to dislike some Black, Brown, or White people for being what they are. The same as I choose to LIKE some Black, Brown, and White people for who they are. And I do not give a damm Sir, about what you or society's latest fad is or if you approve or disapprove of how I feel about certain people.

The RACE WAR will occur because people like you will attempt, and inf fact have ALREADY tried, to control who I am ALLOWED to like, who I am allowed to be friends with. That was tried by the Chicago Police and the gangs on the southside when I was a kid with black and brown friends. I didn't put up with it from THEM and I sure as hell won't put up with it now from the other side of the fence!

Do you get it yet? I don't care about what people think of me but anyone who goes after me regardless of color I will raise my hand too. Call me a racist enough times though and you will get most idiots to believe it, they will act on it thinking they have the social RIGHT to do so and I will react to their actions. There are many people like me and that my friend will create the RACE WAR that you are talking about.

reply to post by David9176


David I commend you for coming out with this thread. We should all confront racism even if its of those close to us. Trust me I know how you feel in being in town, or among family or friends who tend to be racist... Iv had to myself confront a couple of people over their blatant racism. And its two fold, I tell ya I find myself frustrated seeing al sharpton on the news with his BS I find myself equally frustrated because to me his no different....

But, while we are on the subject of racism, I'd like to bring up the topic of the race card. I believe there are few times we should confront racism, but at the same time I believe with many fellow ATSers that the race card is often over played. However Im more to believe that both sides overplay the race card and I think it has to stop. There are those on the left that will cry racism at every chance they get, and then there are those on the rightwing who are also overplaying the race card. In almost every single thread now there is another conservative individual complaining about the "race card" when debating their political views... I mean its rather hypocrtical that the same people who complain about the race card continously bring the topic of race up themselves, especially when the thread has nothing of the sort.

I dont believe there will be a race war... I do believe however that the issue of race has shown its ugly head once again since the elections... its time for us to understand that the concept of race is so damn draconian... who gives a damn about the fact somebody elses genetic code is 0.000012% different to them? We should respect our heritage, true, but at the same time celebrate our diversity as God intended us to be.

Repeatedly I hear on these threads "we are all racists to some degree." That's falls in with the cliche of "never say never". We are not ALL racist to some degree.

I don't think there is a race war on ATS and I don't think there is a race war in the country. There's just not. The media has been trying to stir the pot of discontent on this issue for a couple of years now, but I thought we all knew better than to fall it.

Who out there has been in a race war or plans to be in a race war?

That's what I thought.

Just to define the terms I'm using:

Racism:

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Race Card:

the act of bringing the issue of race or racism into a debate, perhaps to obfuscate the matter.
...
The invocation of a person's race in a discussion in order to score points in that discussion

Originally posted by David9176
Do you feel that all men/women are equal and deserve the same rights?

Yes. Without equivocation. And any equivocation to your straightforward questions, in my opinion, indicates someone who needs to look further at their beliefs.

Not only do I believe and feel that we are equal to the depths of my heart, but the Declaration of Independence states:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...

And the 14th Amendment of the Constitution guarantees all persons equal protection under the law.

Do you believe in freedom to the individual....blind by race and religion?

Yes.

Are you a racist?

Absolutely not.

Originally posted by onapaledonkey
We're ALL racist, to one extent or another

I strongly disagree. Noticing physical differences in people is NOT racist. It's observant. Noticing that a person is pretty or handsome or ugly, fat or skinny, black or white, blond or bald, old or young is NOT racist. It's sighted and discerning. It's what takes place in the thought process AFTER the discernment that determines whether one is racist or a bigot or not.

WE ARE NOT ALL RACIST. I don't know why you think that noticing differences in people is racist, but you are mistaken.

David, I agree with you that racism and the race card are being displayed rampantly on this board and I hate it. I rarely hate anything or anyone, but when I see it pop up every day, I feel a contempt that I don't often feel. And the T&C prevents me from writing what comes into my mind and crosses my lips.

I actually see the Race Card played more frequently on this board than blatant racism. Blatant racism is usually kept to one's self or discussed only with those of like mind, for fear or public retribution. Playing the race card is much more socially acceptable, unfortunately.

Examples of the Race Card I have seen on this board (see definition above) paraphrased:

"You voted for Obama because of his race so you could make history."
"You just hate Obama because of his race."
"Obama's not even black, he's 50%."
"Stop saying he's the first black president! He's not"

And a disgusting mixture of racism played with the Race Card:

"Those black kids singing a song is racist! Where are the white kids"?

People tend to think that to be racist, they have to use the N-word or be blatant in their thought or word, but that's not true. The most dangerous racism is the covert thoughts or words that indicate racism. Racism can be a BELIEF. One doesn't have to DO or SAY anything to be racist.

The sad part is that there is some number of people who DON'T want Obama to be president because of his race. Plain and simple. These are the covert racists, so we don't know who they are because they'll deny it to their death. But we can only speak of that segment of people in general terms because any single person who might be "against" Obama might have other reasons, having nothing to do with race. So it does no good whatsoever to say "You are against Obama because of his race" or "The birthers want Obama out because he's black." Because while it's probably true that SOME of the birthers feel that way, not all of them do. And it's not fair to paint them all with the same brush.

So, we might as well just give up trying to identify who is racist and who is not. Because a racist will not admit it and many don't even know it. All we can hope to do is call out the blatant race card players (that's easy) and have our own private thoughts as to who is racist and who is not. In the scheme of things, it doesn't matter if we ID them or not because they're going to have their thoughts and beliefs and we can't control that.

I don't think there's going to be a "race war". The racists will lose before it begins. Racism is a dirty stain on our country and most people WILL NOT stand for it. A "race war" will not be "black against white", it will be "racist against non-racist" and the racists will lose immediately. This country has no tolerance for these people. They go against everything that America stands for. They will hide in their groups and keep their thoughts among themselves where they belong and the rest of us will carry on.

Thank you, David, my friend, for bringing this up. It's an important topic, but one, I fear, we may not be able to do much about.

Originally posted by David9176
I think it's coming out into the forefront. Lately on ATS...I've seen it. I've seen many comments that come off as being racist without "actually" having any racist words in them.

I think many on ATS are closet racists...and that many of them would say racist comments if they were allowed to do so....but it is not allowed.

I come from a family..and town...that seemed to be highly racist. I know it when I see it....and many here seem to be.

I've gone so far as too call out a few who I thought were..although they expressed anger...they never denied or declared that they were NOT.

Do you feel that all men/women are equal and deserve the same rights? Or...do you see others of a different color as less deserving than you are?

It even goes beyond race...as many people view homosexuals as a genetic defect or side effect...that they don't deserve the same freedoms as everyone else.

Do you believe in freedom to the individual....blind by race and religion? Or are you what you claim not to be....no "real" religious person would be racist.

Are you a racist? Are you willing to give up your good name to admit it or will you ignore it altogether and pretend that you are not?

David, define clearly in your opinion what the term racists means to you.

Racist means different things to different people depending on their up

bringing and the people they surround themselves with in life. Describe what

you mean [Quote] no "real" religious person would be a racist. What is you

definition of a real religious person? ^Y^

reply to post by onapaledonkey


I agree with you as well.

I am currently taking a statistics class...and it has confirmed my thoughts that you can pretty much take ANY set of information and make it appear one way or another.

Stereotypes are just large observations. The only problem is when people say one thing, inferencing to another.

An example would be this.

More black people are in jail than white people.
That does not make "A SPECIFIC" black person bad. It does not justify someone from hating a specific person.

But what it does justify is if you are walking in a bad neighborhood/ghetto, normally filled with blacks/other minorities, to be cautious. Since a stereotype is based upon a large population, if you are walking through a ghetto, chances are is that such a stereotype would fit in with your surroundings.

People make race relations such a complicated issue and personal. All that is happening is that we as a society are making it a much deeper issue than it really is.

The biggest problem today is that the racism crap seems to be a black vs white thing for the most part. There is a total lack of acknowledgment of most other forms. The Sotomayor appointment brought it forward and it was ignored. Racism is not limited by the black vs white mentality of old. Anyone can be racist and just because it is perpetrated by a minority does not make it right. "he who fights monsters beware, if you stare overlong at the abyss, the abyss stares back" All the fools playing the race card should realize they are creating a bigger problem.