UFO skeptics don't use reason

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by jclmavg

 

theres lots of witness testimony for mermaids. Do you believe in those too?

If this is the best you can come up with it is not much. Last I looked there are no contemporary witness reports on mermaids by police officers, military pilots, scientists, astronauts, etc. Neither do mermaids show up on radar and neither is there photographic evidence of same.

You can pack up that argument and come back when your mermaid evidence is equal in quality and quantity to, say, that contained in the GEPAN COMETA report. And be sure to inform me as well whenever governments are taking your mermaid evidence seriously.

[edit on 19-10-2009 by jclmavg]

[edit on 19-10-2009 by jclmavg]

Originally posted by jclmavg

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by Witness2008
anythings possible. Mermaids are possible, pink unicorns are possible. But you wouild have to show me the evidence before i concluded they were true. So far i see no evidence of ET visitation.

So let me get this straight. You take fantasy/folklore concepts (unicorns, mermaids, etc.) as being indicative of the scientific plausibility of ET life and visitation? You might as well have tossed some leprechauns in there!

Please do clarify. Does ET visition to you stand on the same footing as leprechauns, mermaids, etc? Please explain why. Explain why you are equivocating.

About people who have incredible stories. Telling incredible stories is as old as mankind itself. I wouldnt believe anyone who has an incredible story with no evidence.

You've jut redefined the definition of evidence and moved the goal posts accordingly.

Great points again,

The skeptic equates these things equally because they are looking at these things in an illogical black and white way.

So Santa, mermaids, fairies and the loch ness monster are all equal in the mind of the skeptic because they don't look at or weigh the evidence. This is because they live in the land of absolutes.

reply to post by yeti101


Let us start with all of these photo's the first dating all the way back to 1870. Critique these and then maybe we can move onto videos.

www.ufocasebook.com...

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by Witness2008

 

anythings possible. Mermaids are possible, pink unicorns are possible. But you wouild have to show me the evidence before i concluded they were true. So far i see no evidence of ET visitation.

About people who have incredible stories. Telling incredible stories is as old as mankind itself. I wouldnt believe anyone who has an incredible story with no evidence.



[edit on 19-10-2009 by yeti101]

Well, theres not millions of people receiving sitings of crafts flown by mermaids, and pink unicorns, but there are millions of people seeing UFOs, and experiencing contact, often unwelcomed, missing time, and strange wounds upon waking up. In fact, some of them receive contact, know whats happening when they go to sleep, awake with scoop marks and find out other family members had missing time at the same time, that night. Its kind of odd that pink mermaids and unicorns are doing this.

Cut the rhetoric out, for there are some people who have bought into the matrix programming and will actually say something that is foolish, such as a soundless craft flying at low to low-medium height for a small plane, which have been noted constantly for their heights, sounds, lights, and shapes, is a satellite. I have a lot more respect for the sheep and they're knee jerk, programmed, glazed eyed responses, but a lot less respect from the more intelligent skeptics who just shoot out with this kind of nonsense.
I think it reveals a matrix programmer myself.

I am an experiencer, and greys are abducting people in large numbers, bloodlines in fact, to attempt to repair their own dna for the upcoming shift. They are controlled by the nuki's, ie. our bankers, corporate heads, and leaders. We also have enormous help from the Federation and Andros Delegations. I've experienced the negative and battles over that, and lifelong experience with my people from the Federation. And there are many waking up, for the energy is being sent in to do this.

Its very easy, to actually see a craft. I'll tell you exactly how to do it, but it does take being real. You cannot hide your true nature or intents, so I do imagine that doing the work to wake up, ask to be able to help them, and see what can be done to assist this planet does take a positive nature. Begin the ascension work, and you really don't need to visit one new age website to do it, either. I do say this because, its experiential, and you will experience changes. One of the crafts I saw, and incredible siting, blew all the others out of the water, and was seen due to the vibrations rushing through me, and the meditation I had just finished listening to the Starseed music on my mp3 player in July, outside one evening. We've seen countless crafts, both ET origin and black op origin, ie. saucers, unusual cigar shaped crafts, and Vrill tr3b triangles as well.

My whole family has seen these together often. I receive contact. One night a soundless craft, about medium height, obscured by a whitish yellow light flew over our roof, the planes that due that have large wingspans, 3 noticeable lights, red, blue, and white, and make noise. Since I didnt feel the energy, I assumed it was a tr3b, because we had seen the shape of a similar one as it approached, and it was a triangle with white lights in the corners, but flew like a jet, obviously tr3b/Vrill related.

As I was turning to go in, I was greeted. "Not yet, we havn't greeted you yet!" This was strongly sounded in my mind with energy, I knew they were my nordic family, and I turned around, and a craft with a red light, flying low, appeared other side of trees, and flew slowly over. When it got close enough to the lights the emanate from the city, (we are right on the outskirts) it was a saucer. My teenage son witnessed it with me. Oh, I suppose it was a "group hysteria" at seeing those prancing pink unicorns pulling the red pumpkin filled with pink mermaids.

Evidence is not going to happen until disclosure happens. The crafts that solidly materialize or unmask low in our atmosphere are frequently subject to attack by our militia. And, until disclosure happens, if they were to force disclosure, the nuki's running this planet have a very precious and valuable hostage, thats humans. It would be nothing for them to stage a blue beam either and hurt humans themselves as other false flags are done, to try and make the Federation and Andros look bad.

The huge siting that blew all those out of the water involved an intense postcard contact, with one I recongized and had received contact from before, and I was told this was a cultural exchange It actually confused me and I thought my imagination was running out of control, turned to go in the house, and this incredible huge, gleaming white, solid craft, that 80 of those Vrill triangles could have fit in, appeared in the space to the north we normally see crafts. A sci fi shuttle shape, with platoons at the back, beautifully molded, unlike anything I have seen online (and I did search) or in movies. That blond nordic male I recognized as an MIB, for he was wearing the molded black uniform I was commonly seeing, was from that craft. And that craft, as it was explained by someone I trust very much was a High Council craft.

To begin to wake up, and have sitings takes heart, mind and soul. Its about advancing. In meditation, and preferably listening to Era, Vangelis, Gregorian, for these are wonderful starseed muscicians, and put frequencies in their music that wake us up and code our dna. Start the ascension. Make the intention. Our thoughts and wishes, and visualizations, and intentions/affirmations shape our reality. We are co-creators, one with Prime Creator/First Cause/Divine Mother. Ask the Creator to assist you, help you begin the ascensional process, and heal your dna, and connect you to your Higher Self, and seek in meditation connection to those positive cosmic friends who are from the Creator, and begin to do chakra meditations, and connect yourself to the Universal Energy. You don't need a new age group.

Ask for planet earth to be saved, for help for people to wake up, for freedom, for an end to wars, and for healing nature and this planet, and to be of service. Then look up. You'll get sitings too.

reply to post by jclmavg


Well radar anomolies are specific to the sky but what about the loch ness monster. We have witness testimony and several anomolous sonar returns from scans of the loch. resumably you believe in the lochness monster too?


[edit on 19-10-2009 by yeti101]

reply to post by Unity_99


Could you provide me with a time line of your experiences and your emotional and intellectual progression with it.

reply to post by Unity_99


I call this the beliver paradox. Millions of sightings but not 1 clear photo?

If there were millions of sighting of anything like a rare animal or other phenomenon it should be relatively easy to get the evidence. A nice clear photo or video should be no problem at all. Except you dont have any. Does that not worry you?

reply to post by yeti101


Hey sunshine I just provided you a link to several pages of photo's. Perhaps you missed it. Just scroll up a few posts.

reply to post by Witness2008


LoL if only that reporter who who made a mistake of calling kenneth arnolds sighting a "saucer" shaped craft didnt exist those photos might have some credibility

interesting they match the description of ET craft in sci-fi comics and books of the time too. That first one looks like someone has taken a marker pen to the photo.


[edit on 19-10-2009 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by jclmavg

 

Well radar anomolies are specific to the sky but what about the loch ness monster. We have witness testimony and several anomolous sonar returns from scans of the loch. resumably you believe in the lochness monster too?[edit on 19-10-2009 by yeti101]

Notice how the pseudo-skeptic, after seeing his mermaid argument debunked, quickly switches tactics. The pseudo-skeptic now in fact resembles the wide-eyed believer who, when confronted with a debunked UFO sighting yells "but what about this one?"

Quite frankly, you still have not answered my questions which I find telling.

You also make the mistake to conclude that whenever there are witnesses this results in a "belief" in the phenomenon reported. I would on the other hand argue that if the number of reports is massive, and are made by very credible people with (physical) corroborating evidence in some cases then "belief" does not enter the picture. I would have to conclude that the reported phenomenon is real and not fictitious (to borrow from Twining for a moment).

I think the only one who "believes" here is you.

reply to post by yeti101


Of the hundreds of photographs provide in that link your only comment has to do with the term that was used to describe the UFO shapes. It was actually a very accurate shape description.

It seems you are the quintessential example of Matrix Risings point in this thread.

reply to post by Witness2008


The time line is lifelong. Our family recieved sitings of crafts when I was a small child and I saw a grey, (my son has too now). Now, I know these are the worst of the greys doing the abductions, the royal zeta reticulli, who are sided with the annanuki and our controllers. I had no idea at the time, and was blocked at every relating it to ufology, however, woke up with bruises, wounds, bleeding nose, and was terrified all my childhood.

At the same time, I was experiencing contact with the nordics, my mother had dreams of this as well. Hers seemed pleiadian, they were green humanoids. Mine were the lyraeans.

The waking up that many are receiving at this time is usually within a 1-3 year period, with energies being sent. And in this time period we're had so many sitings of crafts, and conscious contact. The contact itself, which was mysterious, and mixed between what I call the grey program, and my star family, became much more clear, with nightly duties remembered slightly, coinciding with my very much more aware friend, and my energy recognition becoming strong so I would know who to contact, for the next step to be taken in waking up. The ascensional process is what helps to remember. Anyone here who is not a nuki or grey in source, and has psi abilities of any kind, pinging from phone calls, feeling a friends presence and receiving an email, healing abilities, etc etc.
this means you're a starseed. If you've received a siting, get over the disinfo and spin artists, constantly trying to present ufology as such a mixed bag and even negative, and start to do the work to greet your family. Those sitings are wake up calls.

We need disclosure for this world is facing NWO and Earth Changes, and possibly a cycle's ending. We have so many working on our behalf, but we need to do the work too, and its why we're here. So pushing for disclosure is really urgent, and waking up.

I started a thread on this, www.abovetopsecret.com...
avoiding any new age websites or groups. This is information directly related to assist in waking up to who you are in source. I have an ability to use my insight and can frequently tell who people are in source. Some of the names in ufology, and some of the gurus of the new age groups are nuki's in source. They're not necessarily on a good agenda either. I see those as primarily here to program the matrix, and as agents of chaos, to spread fear based messages. Sitchin, for example, and the one who formed Zeta Talk website.

The timeline for the many sitings of crafts has been during the past two years roughly, with conscious greetings, along with some very unusual experiences. And two house guest that stayed over also witnessed crafts for the first time in their lives, though one was a real experincer/indigo himself, and he remembered some very interesting things as to who he was and why he was here. Along with a battle being done over his AB- dna, which is actually surprising.

This is protection by the way, not always successful, for greys come back. But for the ones experiencing abductions, there is help. Our star families, and there are protectors here as well, including starseeds and walkins who are angels and archangels, who are they're higher selves, and ominipresent. They're presence is like a field of existence, super consciousness. That is what the ascension is about by the way, an expansion of consciousness, and the Universal Understanding, the group mind, the unity that we are lacking here. I've had the negatives taken away for months at a time, before they dared to come back again.

Quite an experience, in my case, shared by my family and a few friends as well.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 19-10-2009 by Unity_99]

Originally posted by Witness2008

Let us start with all of these photo's the first dating all the way back to 1870. Critique these and then maybe we can move onto videos.

www.ufocasebook.com...

OK, then... I will critique the very first photo, this one:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c1c2418572fa.jpg[/atsimg]

1870-Mt. Washington, New Hampshire. This photo is dubbed, "the oldest UFO photograph ever taken." This item was the subject of bidding at Ebay in 2002, when finally the photo was purchased for $385.00 by Samuel M. Sherman, who was the president of Independent-International Pictures Corp. This was originally a "stereo" photograph. Certainly it was difficult to manipulate photos at that time, and remember, there were no flying objects then; at least, not from this world.

www.ufocasebook.com...

This photo is a hoax. It is crop made from this pair of stereo photos:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ad3d1842a2f9.jpg[/atsimg]

The rectangular "UFO" is not in the clouds at all, it is lying in the snow.
The stereo photos are nr. 17 in this list of "Views taken on the Summit of Mt. Washington during the winter of 1870 - 71 by Clough & Kimball".

Nr. 17 is underlined, and the description reads: "FROST ARCHITECTURE":
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3bca37301e5c.jpg[/atsimg]
So urce

The "UFO", the rectangular dark object, is probably a folding ruler placed in the snow to measure scale in the terrain.



[edit on 19/10/09 by ziggystar60]

reply to post by jclmavg


what questions have i not answered? I have answered alot but you havent answerd the one question i had.

Why do you think earth hasnt been colonized by ET in the past 500 million years.?

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by Witness2008
LoL if only that reporter who who made a mistake of calling kenneth arnolds sighting a "saucer" shaped craft didnt exist those photos might have some credibility
[edit on 19-10-2009 by yeti101]

And with this statement I conclude you never even laid eyes on Arnold's actual report and sketch. In fact, Arnold did report disk-like objects. Another blow to the pseudo-skeptic who believes reports of disc-shaped craft had no external physical cause and were merely the result of media influence of the time.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by jclmavg

 

im saying its possible but theres no evidence they are travelling here if they exist.

[edit on 19-10-2009 by yeti101]

Let us all use the same, correct language.

Definitions:

Evidence is the a thing or things useful in forming a conclusion or judgment.

Proof is the evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept that the evidence is true.

So, there is evidence in regards to government case files, organizational case files, testimonies of ex-governmental officials, etc. It is, however, not enough evidence to identify it as "proof" to you.

When you state that there is no evidence it is can be offensive to those that are attempting to supply it.

reply to post by jclmavg


no he said they were crescent shaped and described their movement as "like saucers skipping across water". The reporter made the mistake of calling them flying saucers. As a result people who saw something in the sky would say they were saucers, why? why not crescent shaped? Becuase saucers is what theyre supposed to see afterall thats what was in the papers.

Good illustration of the power of suggestion

Would you like to take a stab and the apparent non-colonization of earth in the past 500 million years?

[edit on 19-10-2009 by yeti101]

reply to post by ziggystar60


UFO casebook's description is very smelly too:

This was originally a "stereo" photograph. Certainly it was difficult to manipulate photos at that time, and remember, there were no flying objects then; at least, not from this world.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

and totally ignoring the history of trick photography:

www.photographymuseum.com...

Ignorant twits.

I know I said I'd avoid these threads, and concentrate on threads where debate is useful, like today:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But out of a kind of morbid curiosity I had to pop in. So, adiós!

[edit on 19-10-2009 by jackphotohobby]

Originally posted by yeti101
ive looked into practically every major ufo case. Every single case i find informatiion the ufologists dont tell you. That evidence usually points to a prosaic explanation.

While I am not as adamant as Yeti and do think there are cases that are baffling and not easily explained, he does make a great point, in particular to how it relates to Matrix-Rising's so-called evidence. The lists he keeps posting do not present all the information related to a case but rather the best evidence to support a certain conclusion.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by jclmavg
no he said they were crescent shaped and described their movement as "like saucers skipping across water". The reporter made the mistake of calling them flying saucers. As a result people who saw something in the sky would say they were saucers, why? why not crescent shaped? Becuase saucers is what theyre supposed to see afterall thats what was in the papers.

And Yeti101 fails again, by refusing to look at a the scanned page of Arnold's actual report to the Air Force showing Arnold's own sketch! In fact, Arnold said that _one_ of the objects had a crescent shaped rear, not the other eight objects who are remarkably disc-like in appearance.

Now who is under the power of suggestion here? If this is any indication of the amount of research you've done, I better stop here because I would be wasting my time.