Hello again ATS, i would like to recount a story that happened to me today.

I was in the local park, i am usually pretty ill but whenever i feel well enough i like to take advantage and get out of the house. I walked to one of the benches around the large lake, my favorite spot that is usually pretty quiet. I greeted the bench with thanks as i was feeling very tired and sat down, the pain i suffer in my back stabbing at me as i did so. I cracked open my book and sat for around 10 minutes reading.

At this point a young guy, mid twenties sat down next to me. After a couple of minutes he tried striking up a conversation and being the knid of person i am i was happy to engage. We spoke for around 10 minutes, some interesting stuff. Once we got past the weather and the parks lack of railings around the lake, i found we had much in common, espeicially when it came to politics. We developed a good rapport, talking about the mistakes labour had made but also the weakness of the conservative party. I only bring this up to point out that this guy seemed pretty smart, he was able to debate the issues, recall correct information and his use of the English language was really very good. Oh but that all changed.

As we sat talking a couple walked by with their child. The couple was of asian decent (for the non English people here, asian is often used to mean people from india, pakistan and a few other countries of that region). As they walked by i caught a snippet of their conversation, the man was talking about how business wasn't as good lately and he would have to downsize, but that is all i caught.

As this couple walked by my new friend gave them the dirtiest of looks and from here i will relate the conversation that followed. My memory of his words is absolutely clear, my replies might be slightly wrong but i think they're accurate. I will star out all of the profanity he used but i will leave the first letter so that you can fill it in because it is actually important to know the words he used. From this point on i will refer to him as "idiot".

It should be emphasised, this guy was smart, articulate and had a good knowledge base regarding the issues we were discussing. He had the same regional accent as myself and this maybe might make us sound a little stupid sometimes. People in this area often clip the "g" off of words ending with it and the sound "en" often sounds like "in" instead. Words like library often skip the second "r" and instead sound like lie-berry. This is an easily forgivable thing as it is simply regional and even the most intelligent people here often speak like this.

So here is the conversation.

Idiot - See them wo** there?

Me - Errr excuse me?

Idiot - Them F****** wo** wiv the pram.

Me - Err you mean that couple over there? (i point)

Idiot - Yeah that's them, f****** asylum seeking, benefit scrounging scum.

Me - Err the guy has a job or a business, i heard him saying.

Idiot - Yeah but they shouldn't be here, taking our money. And they shoot out babies to outbreed us.

Ok now at this point i was in utter shock but my anger level was rapidly rising. I am not easy to anger but racism happens to be a hot button of mine. Still i stayed calm.

Me - Well what about all the white people who have 4 kids by different fathers, they're just as bad (note i wasn't saying the asian couple were bad!)

Idiot - Nah cause they deserve to be here.

Me - So having ancestors from this country means that they can take our tax money, do nothing all day, raise idiotic children with no good, sensible moral values and add nothing to society?

Idiot - Are you some f****** n****** lover or sumfin?

Ok now look, i'm a calm person, i have never struck out at someone ever unless it was self defense, but at this moment i wanted to beat this guy to a pulp. I may be very ill but my rather extensive training means i could easily take this guy. The only reason i didn't would be the whole getting arrested hassle. I remained calm though, well i faked calm.

Me - They aren't n****** they're asian and that word is disgusting.

Idiot - Whatever, people like you are the f****** problem with this country. We'll all be f****** n****** soon as they'll breed us out.

Me - Yeah well just promise you won't pass on your genes you t*****.

I get up and leave.

So why am i recounting this story? Well the UK is a really tolerant country, racism like this is rare. I know some people will see this post and think that isn't true but seriously, how many times do you walk down the street and get insulted? It isn't that much. I as a white person have been insulted but it's just not that common. I can't believe people like this exist and i just get utterly sad about it.

The strange part to me though was a guy, who seemed pretty smart, was able to discuss politics and argue his corner, not just by repeating what he has heard off of tv but actually making good points that required him to think, could suddenly turn into a barely coherent fool. His entire language structure changed! Instead of well formed sentences, his speech became fragmented and his vocabulary drastically reduced.

It makes me think that racism is itself a block to higher thought. Is it possible that the emotional response that racists feel can block higher brain function?

I don't know but in the end i was just deeply saddened by the whole experience and i just thought i would share it with ATS.

Oh just to say, that wasn't the full conversation it's just the rest of it was filled with such profanity that there would be little point typing it.

Racism is everywhere. Most people have similar feelings for one reason or another but choose to act differently on those feelings.

The problem is that racism is a universal issue. There is racism in every part of the world.

The fashion is that only white people are racists but it has roots in every culture in recorded history.

The difference between racists and non racists is not skin color. It is intelligence and maturity.

Originally posted by badgerprints
The difference between racists and non racists is not skin color. It is intelligence and maturity.

I used to think that way but i have realised that many intelligent people are racist. That view of mine actually started when i met a professor that was horribly racist. As i said in my OP, this guy was obviously smart and yet as soon as the racism issue came into his head he seemed to lose much of his higher mental reasoning. It really does make me think that racism is an engrained, psychological response, sort of pavlovian. Once activated they ignore all of their higher thoughts and react only on this base emotion, like it blocks any kind of logic.

It would be unfair to call all racists dumb, i used to do that but honestly i realised long ago that it isn't the truth.

Yep, you are right. Some seemingly very smart and/or educated people can be racist. Even members of minorities can be extremely racist.

You'd think they would know better.

I give you credit for speaking your mind to the youngster even though I think it rarely does any good. As you have noted, racism has little to nothing to do with logic or reasoning.

I enjoy people of every culture and race. I think I always have; and so there was never any learning about it.

Even I however, will admit that I have on extremely rare occasions felt and even expressed (to myself) a negative thought that was racist. I think those occasions were when I was in a particularly miserable mood. I felt bad about myself and my circumstances. Fortunately those quickly passed.

I wonder how much self-hate is involved in racism??

Originally posted by wayno
I give you credit for speaking your mind to the youngster even though I think it rarely does any good. As you have noted, racism has little to nothing to do with logic or reasoning.

To me he isn't a youngster, he's my age. I know i sound very old in my posts sometimes, like a fed up old man lol

Originally posted by wayno
Even I however, will admit that I have on extremely rare occasions felt and even expressed (to myself) a negative thought that was racist. I think those occasions were when I was in a particularly miserable mood. I felt bad about myself and my circumstances. Fortunately those quickly passed.

I wonder how much self-hate is involved in racism??

Now that depends what you mean. If someone walks into a pub and is black then my first thought is "that man is black" but it isn't racist unless you care, it's simple observation. Racism is where caring comes into being, whether you are if the man is black or white and then judge him on that. There is nothing wrong in having eyes.

However if you did have a negative thought and then shoved it aside i would say you're a good man/woman because you realise that your emotional sense was overtaking your logical one. Very few people can separate the two.

I was just sad to see someone who was obviously smart talking in such a way and i was shocke to see this sudden cut off of higher thought. I have encountered racism before but i have never had a long conversation with someone and then suddenly seen a shift i their personality and even their intellect.

I must admit that it was actually disturbing.

Seems strange you say his use of the English language was good, yet when you narrate your 'story' , he speaks like an idiot.
This rings about as true as a six pound note.

Originally posted by ukmadmax
Seems strange you say his use of the English language was good, yet when you narrate your 'story' , he speaks like an idiot.
This rings about as true as a six pound note.

Did you not read my point about this very issue. I said clearly that i found it strange he switched from someone with a good vocabulary to someone without any sense of English. I pointed this out from the start because i myself was shocked.

Did you even read the full post?

To be honest , I didn't.
But just think, wouldn't it be a boring world if we all recited the same PC indoctrination that is rammed down our throats from the minute we wake till the minute we go to bed ?
2009, and black people can say ''n-word'', but white people have to say the "N' word. Since when were words off limit to any portion of the population in a truely advanced civilization?
It's like going back in time to an era when words daren't be spoken in case you called up the devil.
2009 ?
More like 1209.

Notice my post has n word instead of what I typed ?
2009 ? Really ?

Im an equal opportunity racist, I hate EVERYBODY....so what of it?

I will give every "man" a chance to prove his own merrit on an individual basis but as soon as it falters, they often fall into their racial stereotypes. White, black, asian, mixed.... it doesn't matter.

I wasn't always this way and even sounded just like the OP at one time.

Then I got into the real world and realized that pretty much everyone sucks.

Originally posted by ukmadmax
To be honest , I didn't.

If you didn't read the post then you shouldn't comment andy ou just lost any and all credibility. the utter gall to reply to a post without reading it on a website that claims to deny ignorance. Look i'm all for words being free to use, i only starred them out because ATS won't allow them.

I have said on previous posts, one of my very best friends is black and we greet each other, very often with

"What up my n*****"

his reply

"What up cr****"

To us it is a joke, a mocking of racists but you won't believe how many times it has caused trouble. The main point of the thread however is this stupidity of racism, this utter cut off of any logical thought.

Good for you.
Some of my very best friends are white.
I don't know what sort of response you crave after a post like that on a site like this.
Send it to the Guardian newspaper instead, and I'm sure you'll be praised for being a good little citizen.

Originally posted by ukmadmax
Good for you.
Some of my very best friends are white.
I don't know what sort of response you crave after a post like that on a site like this.
Send it to the Guardian newspaper instead, and I'm sure you'll be praised for being a good little citizen.

*shakes head*

An appeal to ridicule and accusations instead of a logical or even polite debate. If you can't debate the issues or at least the points without resorting to such lowly tactics then why bother posting at all?

[edit on 17-10-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I have had this same experience too, having a pleasant discussion with someone and then they slip in something that makes me look at them twice, wondering if I heard what I thought I heard. It's so disheartening and confusing, really. It's like someone talking along and suddenly vomiting and then expecting the conversation to go on as usual...

I don't know what to say other than I know what you mean. It's amazing and I don't understand it. I don't understand some of the responses in this thread, either, but I wanted to comment that I enjoyed reading your post.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't know what to say other than I know what you mean. It's amazing and I don't understand it. I don't understand some of the responses in this thread, either, but I wanted to comment that I enjoyed reading your post.

Well thank you Benevolent Heretic, i know we don't agree on some things but i'm glad to see someone else has had this experience. I used to think that racists were just dumb, ignorant people but i have learnt over the years that many of them are really very smart. It just seems there is some kind of weird mental barrier and once it is crossed their clever selves go missing and a horrible beast takes over. They become fixated on small details, innacurate details and it leads to utter hatred.

ImaginaryReality, the man you met there obviously felt threatened by the numbers of other races appearing in his land. His reaction is natural and normal. You cannot and should not fault him for it. His response is based on his survival instinct.

His vulgar language is somthing else.

Everyone is racist, sorry, it is the truth. Its part of our monkey nature. When you see another tribe that is not your own, they may look different, they may act different than your tribe, so therefore you see them separately. Every mammal on Earth does this, including humans, you cannot escape it, no one can. To deny it makes you a fool and a liar. Try if you will to deny it, but deep down inside everyone is racist to some degree.

Self-hate in racisim? It is self-hate to roll over and love what you resent.

Unfortunately it happens only too often in hard times like these.

People blaming everyone else for their shortcomings, lack of
jobs, money etc etc and the BNP are there to pick up the pieces.

Just look how the Nazis came to power.

Why are people so surprised at these things?

Its great that you stood up and shared your opinion with this guy instead of swallowing your feelings. Sort of like what he did with you in the first place, he shared his thoughts, and assumed because of the color of your skin that you would naturally agree.


Things will only get worse.

I wonder sometimes, what it would be like for a "white" guy to move to a "brown" or "black" majority country. Or a christian to live in a muslim country. I wonder what tolerance exists in this scenario. There always seems to be such a heavy focus on these things in the "western" world but rarely anywhere else.

Race is just such an easy thing to use/abuse in the course of dealing with the world. Its harder to talk about mis-communication, misunderstanding, hurt feelings, etc. etc.

Someone makes you mad.
They are a different skin colour - oh, that's the reason.
Their accent reveals they are foreign - oh, that's the reason.
They are gay/straight, whatever, just different from you, - oh, that's the reason.

Race is "in your face". Its an easy cop-out. Its an easy excuse. It's a quick answer.

I agree. Everyone is racist. Minorities sometimes more-so than any. It can be really difficult to maintain a non-racist attitude in the face of racism from the group that is normally the subject of it.

I look at racism as a weakness on the part of whomever has to resort to it. You are going to find them everywhere. I usually just move on in the realization that I don't need such persons in my space and do not waste a lot of energy on them.