Insurers Dropping Chinese Drywall Policies

reply to post by JustMike


After reading the article, I must say that the responsibility has to lie with the construction companies who purchased the drywall for installation. There is a reason they do not do this on a regular basis, they already knew it was cheap, much cheaper the article states, there had to be a reason for this. Even if the Chinese duped the construction companies and didn't tell them the sheetrock was volatile, that would be between the sheetrockers and the sheetrock providers.

As far as insurance companies not insuring the houses, WTH. They MUST pay any claim for damages, once a house has had all the substandard sheetrock removed I don't see any reason for them to not continue to provide coverage?! If they fail to pay a claim for a house that was covered then the insured needs to take them to court.

Great post Mike, my bro in law is living in one of these houses, his insurance will be paying for it to be removed, and replaced. Most likely the insurance company will turn around and sue the construction company for the amount of repair and replacement. For him though there is no question as to whether or not he will have continued coverage, he will.

The sheetrock should never have been allowed to come into this country in the first place, but like many other products, cheap stuff, comes from China. And you get what you pay for.

edit to add: BTW, I used to hang and finish drywall, I did new and remodling jobs, I owned my own company at the time and would have expected to be held liable should this have occured on my watch. However, I have to state that I also would have expected ANY product coming into the US would be inspected and deemed safe. I know this slightly contradicts my previous statements, but our court systems work in the manner I have presented in the above statements when it comes to recourse. In the end, the contractor would be at the mercy of China to reimburse them for defective products.

[edit on 18-10-2009 by space cadet]

i didn't read the entire thread just skimmed thru- but in my honest opinion as having a construction company the gov't and corporations are sell ing the american citizens out!!!! they don't give an f as long as they make their money.
point in example- my local newspaper if i don't get it in the morning i call and talk to some guy in india? wtf is that? and that is just a tiny local paper
i constantly get underbid on jobs because of the hiring of illegal aliens- but it seems they have have more rights than a citizen does.
i can't even guess how many jobs i have had to go fix because someone illegal fresh off the boat f'ed up a roof or siding and now the people are mad at me because they hired illegals who don't know what they are doing and i charge more to fix it than the original estimate.
if our once great country would stop outsourcing and keep jobs and products and labor within we would be able to be great again.
yes it would cost a little more- but think about it- if you need a pair of socks and it costs $2 to buy american or $1.75 for outsourced how much are you really saving?
unfortunately very few in america will look at it that way.
but in hindsight we sold out to china and they now own us

Originally posted by observe50
...Isn't it funny we send out all the good stuff and they send us poison/harmful products...

...China doesn't have to be a super power and destroy us with weapons and war they just kill us off with there products...

...I now always look and buy American it's worth the extra money...

What is upsetting is when dealing with buying certain things we don't know where the products came from such as in houses and if our government allowes this stuff in and it is inspected then there are problems then they should be held accountable to repair it.

We know that will never happen.

Check the products you buy and try to buy American whenever you can. Sadly it seems that Americans are getting totally screwed and our government is still allowing it.

Hi Observe,

thank you for your comments. I've quoted a few of them above. What you you are saying is the plain truth -- and not only in the USA, but in many other places.

I guess some members might wonder why someone like me who lives in Prague, central Europe, could care less about American home owners having their lives messed up by toxic drywall imported from China. I care because it matters. It's not just that further pain in the US home sector will have knock-on effects in the economy, and that will affect us "over here". It's because this is not just about toxic drywall, but the whole mess we've all been dropped into by a small number of people who are so driven by greed that they just don't care at all about anyone else.

And that matters!

A few posts back I related the true story of a woman here who bought a Chinese-made ride-on tractor for her little girl. They live in the country and so she wanted a tractor, and no-one in this part of the world makes them. Not little ones for kids, I mean.

I can bet that little girl was heartbroken when her tractor fell to pieces in just a few weeks. I can also bet you all know similar stories.

And I mentioned my wife's "Singer" sewing machine, made in New York about 100 years ago and still working fine -- built back in the days when everyone cared about quality and had pride in what they did, and a guarantee was a guarantee!

People, the US imported 500 million pounds of toxic drywall from China. That's 250,000 tons. Over a period of years. This was not like a few bad batches being sent out by mistake, this was long-term, deliberate deception. In other words, it was downright criminal!

Nowadays, "price" is the key factor. Quality, pride in workmanship, reliability, products that don't fail two weeks after the warranty runs out -- if you get any effective warranty at all -- that's all been pushed aside by the few who make the decisions, namely the big dealers, big factories, the big banks that finance them, all in the drive to make more money.

I also care about this because this toxic drywall "product" was doubtless sent all over the world, to whatever countries would let it in and would turn a blind eye to the shoddy quality. Sooner or later we'll hear about it in other places, and they'll have the same problems as in the US because it's the same groups of insurance companies and maybe even the same banks that financed all the deals to begin with. Even if they're different companies they'll do things the same way.

The only way to defeat this problem long-term is to do what some of your are already doing: whenever possible, buy local. If it's not made in your country, then ask yourself why it isn't. As we know, about 80% of all toys are now made in China. They might be labeled with major US or European brand names, but they're made in China. Why?

And as we all know, their standards are appalling. Toxic lead paint on toys? In the 21st century? Why? How?

Our kids and grandkids play with crappy plastic toxic toys; babies were being fed poisonous milk formula that if you gave it to animals you'd have been thrown in jail; you and we maybe have toxic drywall in our homes and offices, stuff that issues gases that'll corrode pipes and wires so what on earth is it doing to people; Chinese workers who often have no idea what's in the products are getting poisoned too, the Chinese miners who dig the coal that runs the power stations for these factories die like flies and their sainted leaders do NOTHING to improve their safety -- and our governments pander to the smiling, heartless leaders of the PRC because they'll lend us money when we run up our foreign debt!

And our debt is mainly to them anyway!

I have nothing against the average Chinese people. I hope that's clear. They are often getting it worse than we do, they're just like the average workers here in what was Czechoslovakia, who were lucky to get a plastic-bodied two-stroke Trabant as a "car", while their leaders swanned around in V-8 engined limousines. Equality in a Communist regime? That is such a lie and it always has been...

For years now I've had the plan that when I retire from my regular job I'm going to make toys. Pedal cars, mainly. You know, I'm now planning to retire a few years sooner.

End of my latest rant. Thanks to all for your patience.

Mike

reply to post by space cadet

Hi Space cadet,

Thank you for your post -- especially the information about your bro-in-law’s situation. It’s good to know that at least one insurance company is doing what is morally right. It seems like plenty of others are not.

Hard to say who is going to wind up being held ultimately liable. In the case of your bro-in-law, his insurance company will subrogate, but they could take a while to get redress from the builder or supplier. But at least they are willing to take the case on ad not chicken out behind some clause that in theory lets them off the hook.

I think most insurers are saying that they won’t hold the toxic Chinese drywall properties insured until the problem is remedied, but will then resume the cover on request. Big of them, right? Meanwhile they leave the home owners uninsured and trying to find a way to foot the bill themselves.

reply to post by bigfoot1212

Hi bigfoot,

yes -- outsourcing mean job losses. Big Business doesn’t really care about people. Just profits. And if Big Business messes up and loses billions then the bosses run to the govt for a handout, they get the handout! This is after deliberately putting thousands of their own citizens out of work through “outsourcing” (read “selling off your jobs to the lowest bidder” ), “restructuring” (read “dumping you in the gutter to improve The Company’s bottom line”), and “early retirement packages” (read “We don’t want you. You’re affecting our profits! Take this handout and get out of here!”)

I remember watching a “business” channel called CNBC, a few days after the Asian Tsunami disaster that killed at least 220,000 people and ruined the lives of millions. Guess what they were discussing? I’ll paraphrase:

First greysuit with silk tie:
“This disaster is having a serious impact on Asian Markets… It might even affect profit forecasts for many of the blue-chip companies on Wall Street.”

Other greysuit with silk tie:
“Yes, but there are now some good opportunities to pick up quality stock at rock-bottom prices, especially in Asia…”

They made me want to throw up.

And that’s the mentality we are dealing with. Just see… Wait for the next major disaster and see what the business channels and business papers talk about. Possible losses and “opportunities” for profits.

They disgust me.

That’s why I care about this rotten problem of literally stinking, toxic Chinese drywall.

It’s a symptom of a plague!

Feel free to rant! Give examples of what makes you sick. It’s all part of the reason why the Chinese were able to offload half a billion pounds of toxic drywall onto the unsuspecting US home owners and their children. If it’s relevant to crappy production to make bigger profits, uncaring Big Business, Insurance companies that worm their way out of claims whenever they can, denial of responsibility, authorities turning a blind eye or covering up the truth (as they did in this case!), then say it!

And whenever you can -- buy local!

And please... If you think this is important, I'd humbly ask you to flag this thread.

Thank you.

Mike

Mike you are so right, BUY LOCAL people! Our town took on a whole new attitude towards just that, and last year all our local businesses put up large signs that say 'buy local', so you know just what locations support your town, city, state, and country. I thought that going into most of these shops would wind up costing me more, truth is, I pay slightly more for most things, however I wind up with a better quality product, and a gaurantee most times should the item default.

BUY LOCAL people!

I would love to be able to buy more local & American made products, and I'm certainly going to try harder to do so. My problem is that I am barely getting by and I can really only afford to buy the cheap chinese crap.

I feel very much trapped, and that's probably where "they" want me and so many others to be...

the only chinese product i own(that i know of) is an ak-47- now that is of good quality but maybe because they don't want it too break down before we can all kill each other lol
just checked the sheetrock i have been using in homes and is supposedly made in chicago- even tho comes from home depot so not sure if manufactured in chicago or imported by a company in chicago.
and i always try to buy local esp fruits and vegetables but in pa. i have limited months in the farmers markets that i can get fresh non-monsanto gm foods.
sooner or later(i'm betting sooner) you won't be able or allowed to buy anything of quality so it either kills you slowly or drains your wallet because it breaks so fast and you have to replace it.
perfect example- i have had a poulan chainsaw albeit just a 16" small one for over 20 years. it is getting tired but still works good so i looked at new ones. poulan outsourced and now they are all plastic (where as mine is all metal) and the reviews for them were horrible. so i spent a few extra bucks got an echo made in america and comes with a 5 year warranty.
BUY AMERICAN!!
we need the jobs and money coming back in and because we don't have the money coming back in we are broke and china owns us now
spend the few extra bucks buy american and vote the criminals in office out!
i'm being taxed without representation as to where my tax money goes andthat is against the constitution.
why don't the people have a right to say where their money that is stolen from them goes?
it gets outsourced so we can't survive after taxes to pay other countries to sell us cheap stuff that will poison us-no wonder obama is pushing the healthcare issue so much-pay other countries to poison us=make us buy health insurance=big business makes tons of money
it's climbing the rungs of a ladder
and on another tangent- when they did all the bailouts to save foreign companies why didn't they just divide it amongst the american people? banks would have gotten it back anyway right? besides it was our money they spent
oh wait they couldn't do that because then most americans would have paid off their debts and not be slaves to the "corporation"

Hi everyone,

sorry I've not been on here much today so far as I had to work late. (I always do on Mondays.)

Thanks for all your comments. I appreciate what Kardenal said about the dilemma if you're struggling to just make ends meet. You know, in cases like this I see nothing wrong with buying second-hand if it's a good-quality product. Go through Craigslist or Ebay or what-have-you. At least that way the money goes to someone local -- in your own country at least. So the money stays at home rather than disappearing into the pockets of a relatively small number of people who are already stinking rich anyway. I buy quite a lot of stuff that way and most of it is good quality and will last for years longer than the new imports from China that are flooding our market and killing our local industries.

@ Spacecadet -- a "buy local" campaign is a great idea and well worth it, especially as in the event of a problem you can deal with people in the region and not get foisted off to some call center half-way round the world.

@ Bigfoot -- wow, an Avtomat Kalashnikova 47? (Автомат Калашникова 47) The original Red Army assault rifle. Now they make them all over the place! Okay, remind me not to upset you too much. I get your point, though. Weaponry is a special case after all.

Thanks for the example of the chainsaw. That's the sort of thing I mean. You have companies there that are struggling to make a buck, we have the same situation here. I guarantee you that your US-made chainsaw will still be going strong after the plastic ones have been dumped in the recycling bins. And like I said, for someone who's struggling for money then they can buy a good-quality second-hand one and I bet they'll still be better off. At least spare parts shouldn't be a problem.

It still amazes me that the US bailed out so many banks that are basically foreign owned or at least have major foreign investors. I follow their economic argument but thst still didn't make it right.

And now the big investment banks are declaring huge profits and will pay out billions in bonuses...

Okay I'm getting off topic a little but it's all symptoms of the same disease, isn't it? Where I live, we didn't have any real problems with our banks. But all the same, the economy has suffered because even while they posted profits they tightened on lending, saying it was due to the economic crisis. So, will they try and ease rising unemployment here by lending to struggling companies to pull them through this rough patch? Nope. They just let them go bust. But if I set up an import business and I want money to bring in a couple million Euros' worth of stuff from China, do you think they'll say yes? Sure they will. Because they know it's profitable.

I still don't know if we have Chinese drywall here. Trying to find out but it's like a secret society when it comes to learning where some products are sourced from.

Now why is it that doesn't surprise me?

yes mike it is all symptons of the same disease. and unfortunately even if you do buy american most of the parts are still made overseas.
"buying american" usually just means assembled in the us
perfect example is ford and mazda-they are the same truck and have interchangeable parts-some american some jap
so even if you do buy american you are still helping other countries
and yes the banks sicken me- like you said they bailed them out to help us but it is harder than ever now to get a loan and they are giving huge bonuses. remember the one that threw a lavish party to celebrate their bailout? and wanted to buy a $48 million jet? wtf is that?
it is corruption at it's finest
queensryche has a song from the late 80's/ early 90's called "revolution calling" they hit the nail on the head with their lyrics
and i agree buy a quality item secondhand if you can't afford new-just remember buyer beware if you do. like you said at least if you do buy secondhand at least you are giving the local people money.
and while i'm on a rant isn't double taxayion illegal? i mean if i buy a used car i have to pay sales tax but that tax was already paid. now if i sell it it will be taxed 3x and so on
as for the sheetrock i was searching and can find out nothing-maybe there is a secret sheetrock society lol companies don't like saying where their product comes from.
the sheetrock i use is usg-united states gypsum company- but i still can't find where they get the gypsum from or where it is made- maybe i'm just a bad searcher and someone else can find out
ok missed this- usg is a subsidiary of the united states gypsum company-so now remains thequestion of where the gypsum comes from
at least they say the paper used is a us product

reply to post by bigfoot1212

I follow what you're saying about products that are made elsewhere then assembled in another country. With cars, it's called "TKD" (Total Knock Down) if I recall correctly. I know that in the US, some states demand that cars sold there are assembled in the USA, otherwise much higher tariffs might be applied. In fact that might be the general situation but I have to admit I'm not sure.

I'm not totally against import and export. If that were to be the case, complete isolationism might work for some countries that have all all the resources to make everything they need, but most countries simply don't have that option. The important thing, I think, is to buy local wherever possible and be wary of imports that come from regions or countries that have a bad track record in quality.

As for US Gypsum (USG), I checked their website and couldn't find any statement that all the materials they use are sourced in the USA. For the peace of mind of the American public -- especially now -- I would think they'd benefit from making some statements of reassurance in regards to their sources.

It might be worthwhile if a US-based member could write to them and ask for clarification, along the lines of: "In light of the current scandal with toxic drywall from China, are you able to reassure US builders and homeowners that your products do not contain any toxic gypsum, and can you also assure them that this has always been the case?"

If anyone wants to write to USG the link for their "contact email" form is here.

About the double taxing... I'm amazed that you can be charged sales tax on a second-hand automobile. As you say, tax has already been paid! Is that generally the case or is it specific to some states?

Mike

reply to post by JustMike


good point- i'll email usg later(have to go fix a roof and guess why? damn aliens lol)
as for double taxation not sure if state specific but in pa anything that is resold is subject to sales tax- no matter how many times it has been sold and taxed before.
when i lived in alaska there was no sales tax at all so i know that state you wouldn't have to. maybe some members from other states can chime in and let us know what their states do about taxing resold items

ok i got a quick reply from usg theysay they have never imported any drywall from china and all sheetrock is manufactured in the usa using north american products. they do however export all over the world

reply to post by bigfoot1212

Thanks for checking up on that. In that case I'd have to say that if you're in the US and you need need to use drywall, people, then it might be worth buying product sourced from USG. In any case, ask your retailer or wholesaler
for details of where their own brands of drywall really come from -- and not just the factory but its raw materials.

well i'll give usg credit for at least producing their product in the usa and giving jobs to the usa. they only said that the raw materials come from north america but not what country but it is manufactured in the usa. i'm guessing the gypsum is from the usa and probably canada. but who knows. i don't think the southern countries produce alot.
and as for the illegal aliens screwing up stuff (i rant about them screwing stuff up) but i made $600 in 2 hours to fix their screw up
i just don't agree with them stealing my tax money and getting welfare and living here illegally

reply to post by JustMike


Hello again Mike, just stopped back in to see all the new posts. Great thread. To all of you out there, Buy American, sorry, buy local.

With my current status on the no job, wink wink, no work front, wink wink. What my government does not know, will not hurt them. All of our lives, most of us have attempted to be good people and good citizens. I believe most of us now have seen that thrown back in our faces.

I have found that if I give a bid for a job I tell them my attitude about buying local and my attitude about, you get what you pay for. My philosophy when doing a sale is their are three prices, good, better, and best. These are my prices for materials. I will never short them on workmanship. Yes, the ones that are too cheap to see the difference in my work and someone else that only does their bids by price alone, I actually do not care to get their business. Like a previous poster said, I will usually get a call later from them for any future work because of their experience with the lowest bidder routine.

One more thing to note, I will also usually research my customers(to see if they are lawyers or are in gov) and ask them if they would like a 25% discount on the labor component of my bids. All they have to do is pay me in cash and not file any paperwork(like claiming on their taxes). I am fed up with my gov-as you can see from my Avatar and my Sig.

I will not receive and do not ask my gov for anything, never have, never will, because to receive from them anything, places chains and shackles on me that I rather dislike. Peace and prosperity to you and yours.

reply to post by endisnighe


actually there are 4 prices-lousy,good,better and best lol personally i take great pride in the work i do and almost never get a callback for work i have performed. we have to remember bad word of mouth goes around 10x faster than good word of mouth and i don't want bad things being said about my work. contractors always get a bad rap but homeowners are just as bad. if i know that person is decent and not going to jerk me around i might even do a few extra little things for them for free to keep them happy and tell others i did a good job.
it never ceases to amaze me that people will spend $6500 to have their roof done because it was $500 cheaper than my estimate. but yet now i have to whack them when they call me to fix it and they get mad when i tell them you get what you pay for. if you can afford for me to come and fix it then you should have just had me do it in the first place duh
and why aren't the people who did it in the first place not fixing it? because you got what you paid for lol
and i know what you mean about getting paid in cash i always ask if it is possible, but i still have to show some income and pay taxes no matter what since the gubment knows i have insurance andsometimes i do subwork and get 1099ed. so basically i am screwed there
i'm getting off topic tho lol
i'm not endorsing usg in anyway shape or form just there was the concern over toxic drywall from china and usg is the biggest supplier in the usa and they gaurantee all is made in america withall north american materials.
my next quest i think will be to find out about pressure treated wood. it used to have arsenic in it but they claim it doesn't anymore and is non toxic. so what chemicals do they use now? there is something bad in that stuff because when you get a splinter from it it is infected in just a few hours whereas normal lumber just hurts or takes days to get infected if it does at all. and they say you shouldn't burn pressure treated lumber. why is that if it is non toxic?

reply to post by endisnighe

Hi endisnighe,

I'm not surprised that you're fed up with govt in general. Seems to be too much taking from taxpayers and then spending it without concern for the people who worked to provide it. Like, they could have spent a bit of money on making sure that toxic drywall never got into the country after the very first shipment, but no -- it went on for years.

The same is true here, of course. We have govt ministers getting driven around in BMW and Audi limousines (bought from neighboring Germany), rather than spending our tax money on locally-built cars which would be quite adequate for their purposes. But they don't care about that and just tell us to tighten our belts again.

As for where all our drywall is sourced from, I've only been able to find out that one of the major dealers gets some supplies from China, but specifics are lacking.

I follow what you're saying about people who go for the cheapest and then need the work repaired or redone. I guess that happens all over, far too often. Now maybe a few more will feel motivated to pay for quality or at least an assurance that they have some kind of guarantee is the products are not up to standard. Looks like we can't rely on the govt to do that.

@ Bigfoot: I got a laugh from you said about the four price levels, because it true! What makes it more funny is my parents always used to say, "You only get what you pay for... If it sounds too good to be true it probably is." Makes sense to me and always did.

I don't know what the story is on the lumber. Could be that if it's burned then some chemical in it can undergo a change due to the heat, combination with oxygen while burning or whatever. I'm not a chemist so I can't say for sure. But it would be worth finding our more.

Mike

Originally posted by wylekat
Because the Chinese want us all dead, so they can move in?

Yes, one line. But it says it all...

Remember the problems with lead in the baby items the chinese sold us, and the anti-freeze in the pet food they sold us?

When is it going to be enough is enough with all the faulty and down right dangerous chinese products. Yeah, they make them cheaper, so what? You think any of these people suffering from the drywall fumes would mind paying more for U.S. made drywall if they had it to do over again?

So, perhaps you're right. After all the chinese are known to be a very patient people, and killing us all slowly is still killing us ...

reply to post by centurion1211


to be fair it is not just the chinese selling inferior products- lots of countries do.
and as for people rueing what they bought yes in hindsight they will have wished they paid a few bucks more for quality. ther is the old saying "live and learn"
when i was younger and didn't have much money(still don't lol) i bought many inferior products to save a few bucks but as i got older i realized it was worth the money to buy a better quality product for a few bucks more.
buy quality on goods and services and you will be alot happier later on that you did not buy junk.
if you crunch the numbers you will find in the long run you actually save alot of money buy shelling out the extra to begin with
and mike
i agree with you about "you get what you pay for"
my parents told me that when i was a kid but of course being a kid i had to wait until i was old enough to realize that everything my parents told me was true lol
truly amazing one morning you wake up and find out your parents actually knew what they were talking about isn't it?
need my old bumper sticker back"hire a teenager while they know it all"

[edit on 21-10-2009 by bigfoot1212]

Mike,

Just received this email in response to an inquiry to USG, I also do not endorse them but was looking for extra information on the story. Thought I would drop it off. I removed all contact info for them and me-I do not know if I am supposed to post their email so I removed all tags.



My email to them

Questions & Comments: With the regards to the debacle with the China supplied drywall. Is their anything that you can send me(contractor) that your materials are in no way supplied by any Chinese suppliers. I would appreciate an immediate response. Also, I have many colleagues that ask me how we can be assured that your products may not have the same problem. Have you done any research on this problem and its causes? Thank you for your time.

Their response

All of USG's Sheetrock is manufactured in North America and therefore unaffected by the Chinese wallboard issues. I am attaching our letter regarding the manufacturing of USG's product as well as contact information if you or your colleagues discover that you have Chinese made wallboard. Please let me know if you require any additional information

All of the conditions, remedies, and specifications described above (or attached) must be reviewed and completely evaluated by the owner's design professional to verify the suitability of the design for a given structure or an attempt to shift responsibility.  Review and approval by a qualified design professional is necessary because there are so many aspects of the integration of our products into building systems that are uniquely within the scope of responsibility of the architect and construction manager.  These include all structural issues, fire protection and aesthetics, among many others.  We shall not be liable for incidental and consequential damages, directly sustained, nor for any loss caused by application of these goods not in accordance with current printed instructions or for other than the intended use.  Our liability is expressly limited to replacement of defective goods.




Now here is their letter on the Chinese wallboard.

To Our Valued Customers:
In recent weeks there have been a number of reports of problems related to Chinese-made
wallboard that was imported into the United States in the 2005-2006 time frame. We wanted to take this opportunity to reaffirm USG’s unwavering commitment to product quality and safety.

Specifically, we would like you to know:
• All of United States Gypsum Company’s gypsum wallboard is and
always has been manufactured exclusively in North America.
• United States Gypsum Company’s gypsum wallboard is manufactured
and sold exclusively under the brand name SHEETROCK.
• USG-manufactured products are not involved in any of the complaints
related to Chinese wallboard; we have never received complaints of this
nature in more than 90 years of making wallboard.


The wallboard involved in the complaints and lawsuits was apparently made in China and sold in the U.S. in 2005 and 2006. One of the manufacturers is apparently Knauf Plasterboard (Tianjin) Co. Ltd., a Chinese wallboard manufacturer. The Knauf wallboard is labeled with the Knauf Tianjin company name.

Questions about Chinese wallboard can be directed to Knauf (Tianjin) representatives in the U.S. at the offices of Everett Clay and Associates at (305)-261-6222.

They did give me a direct contact if I wanted to ask any more questions on the USG products.

Now Mike I left in the contact info for the Chinese company if you would like to do some more digging. If you would like me to call the US number U2U me. Later.

edit to clean up a couple broken sentences due to paste


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