England....

Hello, i have a question i want to ask people, especially those of the UK. It concerns England. I find it sad that English people can't express there love for there country, England. People who are conscious of it will know when someone English wins something in any event, he's never English he's British. Why is that? Now i understand if that person is representing the UK in an event, and thats fine.

Whats wrong with flying the English Flag? People from Northen Ireland Scotland and Wales are aloud to love there country in public....but not England? I find it sad, and am sure am not the only one.

Know i don't have anything against the Britain, am Scottish and believe we are stronger togeather as the UK, thats Fact, look at what we have achived in the last 300 years. Though i find it sad that England can't be expressed as a nation just like Scotland Wales or Northen Ireland. Where did England go?

I would like to hear your views on this.

Tsom87

I don't know what part of Scotland you live in.

I'm in Lanarkshire. I haven't seen the Scottish flag flown here in years, nor have I seen a Union flag either. The only flag I regularly see flying is the Irish tricolour, although that's mainly due to the sectarian divide in this part of Scotland.

I think the English have a greater sense of their regions than the other nations do, you have Yorkshiremen, Brummies, Liverpudlians etc etc and that's how they define themselves initially ... whereas we go straight to Scottish. On those occasions when an English national sports team plays, soccer or rugby mainly, you see hundreds of St. George's Cross flags on display south of the border.

And I'm all for Scottish independence too. The Union is finished ; the election of a predominately English conservative government in 2010 will kill the Union for good.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Ulala]

reply to post by Ulala


Yeah, i can see what you mean about England. Though I still feel like its a sort of taboo to raise an English flag or even metion England on TV. I suppose what i am trying to say is that England as a country is never relly recognised. Its the UK or Scotland,Wales,Northen Ireland. I have seen it through the years.

It depends on what part of Lanarkshire your from when it comes to Irish Tri color or Union Flag. I'am from a part of Lanarkshire were its mixed. LoL you can forget the Scottish flag, you would need to travel out side western Scotland to see one of them.

Tsom87

Im english, and ive been saying the same thing for years, and the rest of england have too, its only TV that constantly shows us as british instead of english.

do you remember wimboldon? Andy murry is scottish, yet as soon as he got anywere, everyone was calling him british, like useualy all the english hated him (because of a rasist comment against the english) yet the english media was loving him.

The sad thing now though in england is that if someone has an english flag out, they will be labled a rasist/BNP/thug because of the past events in the 70/80's.


Its very sad that in a country people feel awkward raising their own flag

We're not a flag waving nation.

Wave them at the football
Wave them at the cricket
Wave them at the last night of the proms

and then fold them away again.

reply to post by CRB86


Very true!

We most definitely aren't Americans that's for sure! Every house seems to have the Stars and Stripes emanating from it. Not my cup of tea

I'm English when it suits.
I'm British when it suits.
I'm a Scouser when it suits.

Simples.

This is one subject that gets right up my nose!
I fully agree with the OP about this, I was born English, from English stock, and can trace my roots right back to the Domesday Book, yet I am made to feel like a foreigner in my own country!
I have said for years that we should be able to celebrate St. George's Day more freely, instead of getting the reaction of fomenting racial violence by doing so.
After all, other cultures are free to celebrate their individual festivals, but mention the word 'English' and I am immediately portrayed as a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal, with links to parties such as the BNP.
Wrong!
I am proud of being English, despite having to be British on my passport, and have felt for years that it is about time that English people stood up and demanded their natural-born rights!

Originally posted by Ulala
I don't know what part of Scotland you live in.

I'm in Lanarkshire. I haven't seen the Scottish flag flown here in years, nor have I seen a Union flag either. The only flag I regularly see flying is the Irish tricolour, although that's mainly due to the sectarian divide in this part of Scotland.

I think the English have a greater sense of their regions than the other nations do, you have Yorkshiremen, Brummies, Liverpudlians etc etc and that's how they define themselves initially ... whereas we go straight to Scottish. On those occasions when an English national sports team plays, soccer or rugby mainly, you see hundreds of St. George's Cross flags on display south of the border.

This is an interesting point. Whilst I'm Welsh on my mother's side, I don't really know too much about Scotland and Ireland, although the couple of times I've been to Scotland I've liked it very much. I'm wondering whether the idea of Scotland and so on appear relatively less-regionalistic is because, to an extent, they're unified at least in one things: a distancing from the English or the notion of Britishness.

And I'm all for Scottish independence too. The Union is finished ; the election of a predominately English conservative government in 2010 will kill the Union for good.

I think the Union was a bit of a scam, like most large-scale politics where only a select few on both sides of the border actually gained from it. To be honest, I actually like the idea of England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and even the Isle of Man and so on, all coming together, but just not as 'Britain' as 'Britain' has too much baggage. After all, we're a lot more alike than we're different, no matter what the nationalists in each of our countries think: that's genetically as well as culturally. Also, if most of the rest of the world is completely honest, they lump us all together anyway.

reply to post by royspeed


very true, everyone celebrates st patricks day but not st georges day.

You reminded me of a point that i forgot to post previously that shows how many people think in england.

A few years ago on st gearoges day, my borther in law painted his face as the english flag, supprise supprise, he got kicked out of the pub for being rasist.


Pritty much sums up the situation of celebrating englishness all together

reply to post by Trolloks


Isn't it more likely he got ejected from the pub for getting drunk, touching up the barmaid and mouthing off to the landlord ... rather than having a silly cross painted on his face ?

Do you believe everything your Brother-in-law tells you ? I don't

he isnt the violent type, he was on the fruit machine.

They said that the facepaint was rasist and was worried that other customers would find it offencive.

And he isnt a bull#ter

Originally posted by royspeed

After all, other cultures are free to celebrate their individual festivals, but mention the word 'English' and I am immediately portrayed as a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal, with links to parties such as the BNP.
Wrong!

I have heard that so many times. Is every Muslim a terrorist? Theres people in England who love there country and want express it but are in fear of the reaction. Theres nothing wrong with doing it.

Alex Samond, SNP is on BBC news talking about Scotland and SNP. Wheres the people who want to talk about England and English Independence ect? I know there are people out there that are for England and England only, where are they on the TV?

People in America are more passionate about there country. They learn from an early age to honor the flag. They hang it out there wondows ect. Theres nothing wrong with that.

Tsom87

Originally posted by TSOM87
Where did England go?

There's a Scottish folk singer called Dick Gaughan who once made a point along the lines of "what most 'Celts' seem to forget is that the first colony of the British Empire was England". I think there's a lot of truth in that and that actually stretches a lot further back than the British Empire.

It's one of those issues where England, whether the rulers or the English people will always get the blame. The first incursions into Ireland by the 'English', over a 1000 years ago were actually done under Norman rule - you know the domesticated Vikings that conquered England? Then, when the plantations in Ireland started with Henry VIII, the English were under the rule of what was ostensibly a Franco-Welsh aristocracy. The Ulster plantations later on were when England was ruled by a couple of Scottish kings. Again, history sells this as being down to the oppressive 'English'.

By the time the 19th and 20th C. comes round, England, even under 'English' rule - although much of that is under the Anglo-German aristocracy - is too inextricably entwined with Ireland and Scotland to realistically do anything about it all anyway. Besides, when the British Empire kicks in, England is actually ruled by madmen and Germans.

So where did England go? It got crushed beneath the weight of that lot.

When it's world cup time there'll be England flags everywhere!

[edit on 17-10-2009 by john124]

because we're ashamed of our country , what its become, its a #hole unfortunatley, what used to be a great country has now lost most of its pride. the future is bleak

Originally posted by TSOM87
I find it sad that English people can't express there love for there country, England.

Hmm.

I live in the greatest country in the world.

I don't need to shout it out all the time. I don't see a point in that. It just goes without saying.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by TSOM87
I find it sad that English people can't express there love for there country, England.

Hmm.

I live in the greatest country in the world.

I don't need to shout it out all the time. I don't see a point in that. It just goes without saying.

Though you would admit that there is people in England that mabay do want to express there love for there country or ''shout out'', (peacefully) but can't because they will be seen as thugs or racists. Theres been people talking about it on this thread. Yeah, everyones different some people keep it to them selfs others are more open.

Am not just talking about Football games, Cricket matches, Rubay matches. Its fine when its done there.

St George's parade racism fears

St George's events 'not enough'

You would get less abuse wearing and holding an England flag standing in the middle of Glasgow! Well.......in second thougts.....

Tsom87

Originally posted by TSOM87
Alex Samond, SNP is on BBC news talking about Scotland and SNP. Wheres the people who want to talk about England and English Independence ect? I know there are people out there that are for England and England only, where are they on the TV?

The English Democrats have had a few TV appearances this year and actually qualify for Party Political broadcasts due to their support. They are the 7th largest party by membership and votes in England.

However, TPTB make it hard for us. We just had to submit a formal complaint to the BBC because of misrepresentation of our annual conference, they used old footage of the party chairman speaking to small group of people to represent the conference, which was attended by hundreds. Here is the mail we sent and the response, bit wishy washy but they admit doing wrong:

Dear Mr Uncles

Many thanks for your e-mail regarding the BBC One evening news on 26 September.

Please accept our sincere apologies that footage of the English Democrats' European Election campaign launch was used during an item about their annual conference.

There was absolutely no intention to mislead the audience and we have taken steps to ensure that this particular footage is not used in this way again.

Thank you again for bringing the matter to our attention.

Best wishes

BBC News

*********************

Dear BBC


In the lead up to the 2009 English Democrats European Campaign, the English Democrats "Staged" an event to gain the 30 Seconds TV coverage that we were entitled.


This was mutually arrange for a venu in London, and Robin Tilbrook together with 6 Activists, head up to the Friends House in Euston to arrange.


Robin Tilbrook staged a speech, so that the BBC could record.


The Cameraman, decided to "Pan" around to catch the "helpers" to give the impression, that only 6 people were in the audiance, no doubt to discredit the English Democrats.


This was then shown on the main news, during, EU 2009 Campaign - although at the time we felt this was most unfair, there was an arguement, that the Cameraman, was reporting the actual situation.


However - for our 2009 Autumn Conference held at Brands Hatch Thislte Hotel, Dartford, Kent, - the BBC 1 6pm or 9pm news on Saturday (or Sunday) the 226/27 September 2009, showed the same clip, from the Friedns House, Euston, and NOT live footage from the Brands Hatch Thistle Hote - giving the impression that only 6 people had turned up at our 2009 AGM & Conference - the reality was that over 200 people attended the event.


This Factual Error needs to be corrected.


Please respond, and expain


1/ Why did the BBC take this stance ?


2/ How will you rectify ?

If anyone wants to know about the English Democrats, see my signature link.

surely one of the greatest things about being British is not feeling the need to flag wave. This is something that should unite us rather than divide us.

Why do people feel the desperate need to cling to a national identity by having a George's flag hanging from the window. We have many things to be proud of not flag waving being one of them

the country will be awash with flags come the world cup.

well england will anyway.

i am sure you jocks will wish them well lol.



ps bit of a snidy trick john124 editing your post above and replacing it with my england worldcup flag line.






[edit on 17-10-2009 by manxman2]