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should language define our universe or the opposite?(ponder with oozyism)

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posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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Well here is the thought:

I believe if the universe defines language then our definitions are more accurate, but if it is the opposite, meaning our language defining the universe then that would mean it is our own definition based on our own limits, beyond our limits we won't be able to understand.

Now let's ponder:

The Law of Polarity: Everything in the universe has its opposite.

Now bring this law to our language:

A human eats a carrot.

The opposite:

A carrot eats a human.

Now if the universe defined our language then in another universe a carrot probably does eat humans.

OK let's discuss this idea and see where it goes.

Thanks for your time

ooz




posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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Plants live on nutrients found in the earth. Human remains could fertilize the earth therefore makeing "carrot eating human" already possible in this universe.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by elaine
Plants live on nutrients found in the earth. Human remains could fertilize the earth therefore makeing "carrot eating human" already possible in this universe.


oohh thanks for your thoughts, makes sense.

How about this one:

A man holds a gun.b]

Opposite:

A gun holds a man.

What do you think?



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 01:35 AM
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I do think a case can be made that language shapes reality... Here's an example from an interesting experiment with a tribe in the Amazon... Basically, it's the idea that what is defined in one's language and culture is what shapes one's reality and evolves as one is exposed to that outside of the language/culture (i.e. a foreign culture)...


Linguist Benjamin Lee Whorf posed the theory that language can determine the nature and content of thought. But are there concepts in one culture that people of another culture simply cannot understand because their language has no words for it?

New findings by Dr. Peter Gordon, a bio-behavioral scientist at Columbia University, strongly support a "yes" answer.

What these experiments show, according to Gordon, is how having the right linguistic resources can carve out one's reality. "Whorf says that language divides the world into different categories," Gordon said. "Whether one language chooses to distinguish one thing versus another affects how an individual perceives reality."

Linguistic Resources Shape Reality

The idea could be broadened to include our understanding of the universe, but we would have to be interacting with the universe outside of our current language/culture (I guess, if that makes sense).


[edit on 17-10-2009 by LadySkadi]



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Interesting question. You should read "Stranger in a Strange Land" by Heinlein. That's a major theme of the book. Don't want to give it away, unless you want me to.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by really
reply to post by oozyism
 


Interesting question. You should read "Stranger in a Strange Land" by Heinlein. That's a major theme of the book. Don't want to give it away, unless you want me to.

No don't give it away I wouldn't mind reading the book, do you have a link for it? I would really appreciate it.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 01:59 AM
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It's not so much the spoken word that shapes the universe, but the intent behind it



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


But, that's a point to think about... If one's intent can only be shaped by one's reality and one's reality is shaped by that which is defined in one's language/ culture than this would have on affect on thought and intent, no?



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
No don't give it away I wouldn't mind reading the book, do you have a link for it? I would really appreciate it.



Here's a wikipedia link to it. It's a fiction book. Heinlein was a huge sci-fi writer - 50s-60s style. Fun stuff. Errr..... now I want to give it away... lol. Read it. Give it a chance. If you finish it, get back to me. We'll talk.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by LadySkadi
 


hmmm depends on where the thought comes from:
Does it come from:
* the ordered physical reality you exist in as an aware physical creature (ie ur brain)
or
* the ordered physicality is a reflection of something else. And your mind (not brain or ego) being part of that universe collective.
ie, you observe and create within infiinty in infinte ways.

I subscribe to point 2. Where life is a reflection of infinite possibilites.
Words arent used by some, and they create their 'universe'.
Languages are different, yet the intent/understanding or emotion behind the words is what is universal.
Example love has many different variations as a word, yet it is a universal understanding.The word is nothing.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 02:37 AM
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There is a place where a carrot eats you.

It's Soviet Russia

My favorite


"In Soviet Russia, God worship YOU"


In Soviet Russia


This link is NOT family friendly
Encyclopedia Dramatica - In Soviet Russia
This link is NOT family friendly



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by really
 


LOL instead of download one of Robert's books, the recommended one, I downloaded all of them
54 books by the same author. I need alot of time to finish all of them.


Thanks



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by lightchild
 



The Russian reversal is a form of unfunny # joke that you can expect from any sentence starting with the phrase "In Soviet Russia..." These jokes are always a lame reverse of something considered normal and end in "YOU!!". These jokes were made popular when Family Guy creator Seth MacFarlane famously couldn't come up with a good enough joke related to 1980s pop culture and had to make a crap reference to crap Soviet refugee comedian Yakov Smirnoff, who is the biggest drawing act in Branson, Missouri.


LOlies, freakin lame joke



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Good point, I see where you are coming from. It is true that something like 80% of all communication is non-verbal and I can also buy into emotions being universal (interpretations may differ in some cases, but not always) and that is the larger picture to consider...



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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I tend to subscribe to the belief that language, spoken language, actually destroys reality, or truth. The only truth or reality is Experience. To know is to know, To speak of knowing is to completely forget, or to not know.
The very act of verbally explaining or trying to describe something, or an experience, dilutes that experience so much as to destroy the 'truth' or reality behind it.

This is one of the fundamental beliefs behind Taoism.
The term 'Tao' and all its texts can be interpreted many ways, most often Tao is meant as Truth or The Way. I will quote the very first chapter of the Tao Te Ching to summarize my point.

"The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding."



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by Brahmanite
 


After reading a sentence or two of your reply I though of Buddhism, right away. Taosim, as you stated, is apt too. As the Buddha said, "don't take my word for it, see for yourself" (paraphrase).
Language most certainly both shapes our perception and is shaped by our perception. A quick example are the Inuit who have somewhere over 30 names for snow. Obviously, there surroundings helped shape their language and in turn their language helps shape their perception (snow is important and snowfalls are distinct from each other).



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by Brahmanite
 





spoken language, actually destroys reality, or truth. The only truth or reality is Experience.

But isn't there many different realities? For example if we experience the universe in one level it would be completely different to experiencing it in another level. you are saying that experience is the truth?

What if we experience it through technology?

Would that experience be the truth also, or would it be distorted?



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