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Women's right (forgetting the men)

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posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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A relatively recent movement, the men's rights movement (also known as the Men's Movement) seeks to develop parity for men in the law and in society. Despite what feminists would like people to believe, over the past 30 years, men have lost equality in several areas, as radical feminists have managed to rewrite the laws to their preference. Overall, the movement focuses on the following areas:


* Custody Law Reform: Custody laws and family courts are often stacked against men. It is rare that a man will win custody over a woman, even if it is shown that the father is the better parent. In addition, there are several tactics used by women against men to make sure that they retain custody (such as getting a restraining order under false pretenses, then using them as a means to coerce) that are underhanded, if not illegal - yet if such tactics are discovered, women rarely suffer any penalty.

Most importantly, though, is the treatment of non-custodial parents, who tend to be disproportionately male. Laws instituted regarding child support have made it difficult (if not impossible) for child support amounts to be modified down, while there are few laws protecting the non-custodial parent's right to see their children. The result has been the viewing of fathers as nothing more than walking ATMs.

The movement seeks to make family courts fairer in their assessments of who should be granted custody, as well as get laws that penalize the aquisition of restraining orders under false pretenses (usually by making restraining orders under penalty of perjury). Most important is getting child support reform, such as a lifting of laws preventing retroactive modification of child support owed and enforcement of visitation rights.


* Domestic Violence Reform: The movement does not disavow the existance of domestic violence - just the way that feminists represent it. The movement points out that 30 years of studies have shown that domestic violence, contrary to what feminists have made common knowledge, is equally the province of men and women as abuser. As such, laws and policies that are predominately favorable to women in regards to domestic violence need to be changed.

The movement's goals are to make laws and policies regarding domestic violence more gender-neutral, and more fair. The policy of removing the man from the house by police on a domestic violence call is a major target, as are battered persons shelters that refuse to aid battered men. More important is education - the movement seeks to expose the truth to the public, as a way to make the current policies regarding domestic violence untenable. Finally, there is a push to discredit battered woman's syndrome as a legal defense for murder.


* Sexual Harassment Reform: While nobody is disputing that quid pro quo sexual harassment is wrong, the movement takes issue with laws that define sexual harassment as the creation of "hostile work environments". Such laws cast a chill over the workplace, as stray comments to the wrong person may be taken as harassment, and could cost a person their job. In addition, such laws are unfair as they protect only one segment of society from a problem while allowing others to be subjected to the same problem - after all, hostility is NOT just subject to gender differences, but can be based on all sorts of differences.

The movement seeks here to have laws that allow for nebulous and subjective definitions of sexual harassment repealed, while keeping the laws regarding quid pro quo harassment intact.

There are other points as well, such as the male right to choose, paternity law reform, and so on. For those that would say that this is just a fringe group, note that the National Organization for Women has put out an action alert trying to discredit mens' rights groups, and Canadian feminists are trying to get such groups declared hate groups. It leaves one to wonder - why would they do that if they were so wrong?

everything2.com...

Women's rights have been used ever since the feminist movement first emerged, it has been used for many purposes, even to invade other nations.

The equality which we talk about is diminished by the term women and children first, forgetting that men are as equal. A child is no more equal than a women or a man. Men have been brutality murdered in masses, usually in wars they try to avoid women and children casualties but their is no sympathy for men, it is a sad fact which exists today.





[edit on 16-10-2009 by oozyism]




posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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Forget your source again? Let me help with that...

Source

Also, might I suggest reading the Blog a bit further as it goes on to counter each argument... some good points, I think.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by LadySkadi]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 



The policy of removing the man from the house by police on a domestic violence call is a major target, as are battered persons shelters that refuse to aid battered men.


WOW! Some women battering the men, that's crazy!



Such laws cast a chill over the workplace, as stray comments to the wrong person may be taken as harassment, and could cost a person their job.


This is true, as ordinary every day occurrances can sometimes be taken the wrong way by certain women, leading to the creation of more awkward and bigger problems.

In the sad world we live in a simple chat and ask out for a drink has been known to almost create harrassment charges from what I've heard.


Some women will behave psychotic because it's in nature, or they've had a bad day, or the wrong time of the month etc! But this has to be fairly rare, and also very unlucky to be the victim of any psycho-women.

But if you're wise and use hindsight I'm sure these kinds of problems can be avoided, so I doubt any movement is needed.
They would be seen as a bunch of fags anyway.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by john124]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by LadySkadi
 


Thanks

and I have read the other views also.

My point is written right under the external writings.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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It really gives me a little faith in humanity, just finding out that such a movement exists.

Women have taken so much power and control over men, that I believe education should be started in order to warn young boys to keep their distance from women as they get older.

The truth is, I have seen just about EVERY male friend I ever had, get screwed over for life by a power-freak woman.
Men need to learn to avoid the temptation to give women the power to ruin their lives forever.

I know one man who went through a divorce, and ended up being denied visitation because the ex decided it would be a good idea to lie about her ex touching his daughter in a bad way.... To this day he is denied visitation, but still makes payment to the woman who screwed over any chance of him getting to see his own kid grow up.

Yet another man I know had some kind of a one night stand when he was 19, with a sick woman over 10 years older than him. She lied about being on the pill.... Then told him she would abort the thing, when she told him it existed. Needless to say, that was a lie too... He has lost his driving license, and is threatened with jail time at least 2 - 3 times a year... Because he is a poor college student who can't afford to pay the wh0$3 while trying to make something of his life...


Gunna stop it there... There are more situations... But I am far too upset to share.

Either things need to change, to give men more rights, or we need to start education young boys the extent females can screw them over if they allow it. Honestly, most boys know how pregnancy happens. But they have no idea, in this day in age, the little amount of rights that America gives males. This needs to change, or we must go against every feminist control freak, and educate men on what can happen to them.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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I'm a man. Old school. I don't need some namby pamby organization filled with a bunch of whiners and cry babies. Or a chapter of the He Man Woman Haters Club. We men have had it pretty good for a long time. We didn't have to fight to get the right to vote. "Men's Rights". Don't make me laugh.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by concernedcitizan
I'm a man. Old school. I don't need some namby pamby organization filled with a bunch of whiners and cry babies. Or a chapter of the He Man Woman Haters Club. We men have had it pretty good for a long time. We didn't have to fight to get the right to vote. "Men's Rights". Don't make me laugh.


"I guess you are not black then", I can't believe I said that to prove a point.

Your argument dictates that since we had it good in the past we should live in a state of fear today for the sake of not getting prosecuted for sexual harassment? Getting kicked out of your job? That you worked hard to gain in the first place?

Getting killed in wars mercilessly, but if a women gets killed it would be another question, so once again equality is the issue here.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by LostNemesis
 


Women must be pretty crazy where you live. Yeah most people have been treated like trash at some point or humiliated, but it's part of the learning process and makes you a tougher guy. The older you get, the less likely you are going to put yourself into really compromising positions. If you happen to meet psycho girls when you're quite young, then that's tough luck I suppose, and hopefully nothing too tragic happens. Some are less fortunate than others, and involving pregnancies situations can just get a bit too random because of the woman's hormones. Difficult to know if a girl's really psycho if it's a one-night stand though. Add hormones to psychotic behaviour and you get a really crazy chick.

A really funny incident that's harmless in comparison was when a friend had his laptop and phone stolen by an ex, and the cops just told him to stop wasting police time when he reported her. Haha, it's unbelievable really, but he learnt from it. If it were vice-versa he'd have got arrested and assumed guilty.

In a lot of cases women wanted equality, now they're treated better than men! But just stay one step ahead of the game using hindsight and it beats the fu*ked up system!

[edit on 16-10-2009 by john124]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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hell yea!


But it won't happen, at least no time soon. I see a lot of lobbying to get any of those puppies past.

Some need to be done ASAP particularly the the custody and domestic violence law, it's so slanted...i've seen it being abused before.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 09:24 PM
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Why don't you guys just lay down the real issue and stop playing sex against sex, hmm? Here's from the same source, it lays it out pretty well, I think... Have a read... Especially note the LAST point.


...the underlying problem that has caused the formation of the movement is that women have more or less successfully broken out of their archaic role, while men have yet to do so. Add to that the shame inflicted on men as a whole (mainly, in my opinion, by feminist radicals who are not necessarily representative of the feminist movement as a whole), and being male isn't necessarily the paradise some feminists make it out to be (and, with all due respect, how would they know?). In my opinion, this is a critical problem in need of solving, because I believe that in this matter, nobody is free before all is free.

With women largely having liberated themselves from their old roles and men still stuck in their archaic ones, everyone wins if the male half of society manages to pull itself out of this outdated swamp. The school of feminism that stresses freedom and equality seems to agree, whereas the school of feminism that is mostly intent on making men suffer, predictably, disagrees. I think the latter is a minority, but I'm not a feminist, I wouldn't know. The largest and most embarrassing error the men's movement committed was that part of it (fortunately with quite vocal exceptions, including most of the "leaders" of the movement) pointed to women as the enemy and oppressor (like the feminists, in their day, pointed to all men).

This is silly for two reasons: The whole discussion quickly degenerates into a "who-is-most-oppressed" competition, and besides, modern advanced civilizations are perfectly capable of oppressing both sexes. Women don't get the highest-paid jobs, men take jobs that kill them. Women are expected to both do professional work and tend to children if they have any, men get forced into military duty. The oppressor is not one sex, but the sexless social mechanisms that have been oppressing us all for millennia (these mechanisms are perpetuated by both sexes, although the people in political power are predominantly male).

The problem with the movement is the same problem that faces modern feminists: Men's movements and women's movements are really a stupid way to go about fixing this problem.

What we need is an anti-sexist movement that doesn't have the implicit agenda of advancing one sex over the other.



Carry on...

[edit on 16-10-2009 by LadySkadi]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Not another one.... this is the second thread like this on ATS in the past 2 days. What have most women done that is so bad? This isn't about most women, it's about some fringe that is like any other fringe group, a minority that is just more vocal...

I am woman hear me roar..



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 09:39 PM
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How many thousands of years have humans walked this earth? Yet women are still fighting for equality.

When did women fully get the vote..late eighteen/early ninteen hundreds.
Spousal rape was only recognised twenty or so years ago. Early 20th century women were not allowed bank accounts. The list is endless.
Not so long ago mothers always got custody of the children, surely the OP will recognise the fact that more and more fathers are given custody.

More women are victims of domestic violence than men.

Article
www.womensaid.org.uk...

There is still prejudice, women still earn less, discriminated with jobs etc.

The feminist movement was born out of a need for women to be recognised as equals with the same opportunities as men and have control over their own lives. It in fact started with Emly Pankhurst and the Suffrage movement.




.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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My personal expirence.

I was married for twenty years. My ex developed mental illness and seeing the effect on my kids I decided to get out. I was investigated twice by child protective services, as well as the foster family where my son ( a special needs child) lived for a while and two different school districts where he attended school. My daughter refuses any contact with her mother, and I had to take over legal gaurdingship of our son when she was removed for mishandeling his disability income.
The clincher is I have to pay her $400 per month until she dies or remarries. All of the money she gets from me goes into a trust fund that she can use for specific things. The reason she uses this trust fund is so the income doesn't effect her disability income, she hasn't worked in over twenty years. Some people know how to play the system. I would think it would be in every womens best interest to see this type of abuse of the sytem stop. No wonder men are afraid of commentment.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Why is it that anytime you write an OP you drag war into, I think you may went to consider seeking help, this is no joke, I am concerned about you...



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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Isn't it about time we started to look at equality for all people no matter what their sex? Instead of pushing the separatist agendas?

Don't get me wrong here, I am a man, I've met mostly power and dollar hungry women in my time, I've met men who have been done-over by their women and met a lot of men who are confused about what is expected of us today. And in country areas I see the dominance of the male continued as if the 60's and 70's never happened.

Yes, many men are confused. Should we be Sensitive new-age Guys or Real Men? Should we follow the media's portrayal of how men are expected to de-hair, use beauty products and be afraid to roar when necessary?

The biggest problem I can see is that girls and boys are raised differently to begin with. This will foster the differences arguments and shows how it is necessary for us to think about raising our children the same way, no separation. In this way men and women will be able to communicate more effectively in the future.

Yes the legal system is biased toward women, especially in Family Law rulings. But, most adults do not see when fighting for custody that neither has the rights, it is the child who has the rights.

Yes many men are physically beaten by their women. We do not know the numbers because men experiencing such things are the same as women who experience such things, too scared to say or do anything about it.

There is inequality. I am a single dad, been raising my daughter on my own for 12 years. At one time we moved in with a girlfriend for a trial period to see if we could live together with a view to a future. She was a nutcase who had put her best foot forward and hidden the underlaying nature of control, manipulation and excess drama. The situation became unbearable rapidly once the "covers" were dropped. So I took my daughter and left the relationship only to find their was No Assistance for a Single dad, that's right, nothing like women in the same situation get in abundance. That is inequality.

So again I ask. Should we not work towards equality for all people?



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by Tayesin
 


I find it sad that single dads are not allowed the same assistance as a single mother would get. How sad in this day and age, we preach 'equality', but in the power struggle for women to gain control, children of single dads like you get left behind.

There is definitely more than enough proof that men are not the only ones who run away when kids are involved, to avoid the responsibility. I was also brought up in such a situation, where my mom divorced and left my dad to worry about me himself. He never pressed for financial 'support' either, which is usually the first thing women demand.


Indeed, most of the single fathers I have seen, didn't even want to burden the system when it would have been in his right to do so -- For the kids.


Yes, I am female. Why do other women refuse to see that their 'species' is allowed many more benefits and rights than men? They don't feel bad, when they are the less qualified to raise kids than the man involved, yet are given guardianship.

Women who cannot afford to have kids, demand massive payments from their ex... That would be more able to afford to raise the kids. Ironic.

We are VERY far from offering equal rights, in regards to an individual's sex, contrary to what many feminist freaks will claim.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by oozyism
 


Why is it that anytime you write an OP you drag war into, I think you may went to consider seeking help, this is no joke, I am concerned about you...

How many of my OPs have you read, don't make assumptions, the first thing they teach you in professionalism. So that being said, click on my name>click on threads>read some of them.

Back to topic:

War is relevant in regards to OP because Women are treated better than men. If you oppose that point then don't hesitate to start a discussion with me instead of personal attacks.

Remember Abu Ghuraib? Imagine if women were raped and tortured in the same manner, now imagine how the anger against those who made/imposed the orders.

So have a think before you speak, or write in ATS sense.

I at least make sure I think about my OPs for at least 5 minutes before posting it, if I think it is false I always admit it, and I always change my ideas, none of which is static unlike some. I don't want CONSTANT ideas, I want variables which changes over time, as I gain more knowledge. No one knows everything therefore there is no such thing as ultimate truth.


[edit on 16-10-2009 by oozyism]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by vkey08


Not another one.... this is the second thread like this on ATS in the past 2 days. What have most women done that is so bad? This isn't about most women, it's about some fringe that is like any other fringe group, a minority that is just more vocal...

I am woman hear me roar..

You are a women and I hear ya, but you have to be willing to hear others also. Women and men can coexist without the needs for these groups which pushes beyond.

If we have accepted woman's right groups then also we should accept man's right.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by vkey08


Not another one.... this is the second thread like this on ATS in the past 2 days. What have most women done that is so bad? This isn't about most women, it's about some fringe that is like any other fringe group, a minority that is just more vocal...

I am woman hear me roar..

You are a women and I hear ya, but you have to be willing to hear others also. Women and men can coexist without the needs for these groups which pushes beyond.

If we have accepted woman's right groups then also we should accept man's right.


I think my point was why do we even need rights groups to begin with, women's , men's or purple people eater's.....



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 09:41 AM
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We need each other.... We need to get over this stupid dominance game bullcrap and focus on advancing AS A SPECIES. Which is largely what alot of feminists seem to want. Not equality but dominance.



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