Originally posted by Toltec
The matter is simple the right hand of Pharaoh was obligated to become part of the Egyptian royal family (Sex with fertile and ovulating women for the purpose of having babies). Otherwise he could not in all sincerity be considered the right hand (realistically).

So here we seperate. I say, based on the bible (which is the only record so far of Josephs life) that he would not have slept with the egyptians. His abhorence of that act would be seen in the story you must know of how he ran away from potiphor's wife and went to prison.

Only in the situation where his wife is part of the royal family (below) would it be correct. But it doesn't say that at all..

Gen 41:45
And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnathpaaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over [all] the land of Egypt.

Even if that was true, the intervening 3500 years is big enough that Jesus, a simple person in Israel, would not have been seen as royalty in the eyes of the egyptians of the time. There are heaps of people around who can claim liniage to the house of david.

What is implied is that the original Judaic culture was dispersed to an extent that at present. The lineage could be present in just about every race, that could be conceived as distinct from that culture.

And to that I saw rubbish, and prove it. Suppositions and conjecture do not make proof. What you are saying is what I have been arguing against this entire thread. It is unbiblical, and factually untrue, but its a nice political idea for some to hold.

How is the hebrew israelite being black be a myth?

Netchicken, let me tell you how brainwashed your mind is

you see portraits of a white jesus and white God all through media and
you think queen cleopatra was white because she was portrayed by a white elizabeth taylor

you white is the way to be and black is a curse

when it fact it was Elisha who put a curse on a man and that curse was he became WHITE... yes... being WHITE was CURSE..... more evidence to prove to you that the hebrew israelite was black.. elisha was BLACK..

"wash me as white as snow" some christian carol song, it's poison

see how different we think netchicken? you think white, i think black

black is the combination of all colors, white is the lack there of

you think egpytians were white people because of what was written in middle school textbooks... you think everything and all in history was done by a white man... you think Imhotep was not black because you saw the movie "the mummy" when in fact he was so black he was BLUE.

see, we will never think the same because your brainwashed i'm not... you say i promote black supremacy? NO.. i'm just telling you how it is.. THE TRUTH HURTS

you think adam and eve are white , noah was white , abraham and jesus was white because of the biblical movies you've seen on tv... THAT'S WHITE SUPREMACY

when without a doubt it's a FACT that the black man is the OLDEST race in the world.... adam and eve were BLACK.. so was enoch and so was abraham and so was the true children of ISRAEL...
we will never think the same... unbrainwash yourself with all the bull# you took in from media and school and maybe you can have a true intellectual conversation with me.

wow, it is useless.

he is not brainwashed, those who only think like a biggot are brainwashed
by (hatred).

ill really pray god has mercy on you.

all races come from god, all seperated because of the same evil you spout out.

and if your a biggot, in the land of biggots you shall go, and in this land will be both, hitler, and black, and jew, and catholic, and
they will serve their master satan for eternity.

the creator of biggots.

You amaze me illmatic, you were not like this 5 months ago.

you either had a bad experience with a hypocrite, or have recieved horrible info from racist.


why is jesus portrayed as white?

well lets see......

because its a (white) country.

infact go to china, there jesus is chinese, go to mexico, their jesus is mexican, go to spain their jesus
is spanish, go to russia their jesus is russian.

your argument bares no point whatsoever.

its truly sad to see you turn into this kind of man with this kind of thought process.

peace.

and if your a biggot, in the land of biggots you shall go, and in this land will be both, hitler, and black, and jew, and catholic, and
they will serve their master satan for eternity.

judge not or you shall be judged first.. isnt that what it says?

truth i have no comment for that... you sound pathetic tying to sound like God all of a sudden giving me my relevation type judgment, thanks.


I have never seen no chinese jesus, show me that truth... christianity isnt even a religion in China

and how the hell do you pose a russian jesus?? can you tell a russian from a white on the streets? no... russian is white.. russian is caucasian.

the same with your little mexican and spanish theory of jesus- it's wrong.


and do you even know what the world brainwashed is??

you said it yourself i dont know you and i'm going to tell you what you told me.. YOU DONT KNOW ME.

brainwashed is you in the mirror.

"" judge not another ""

i did not judge you, i said (those) who are biggots will return to the land of their father.

jesus also says..

"" Be simple as to what is evil ""


Illmatic your completely wrong about jesus in japan, mexico, spain..

have you ever watched the pope going on trips to other countries?

if you have you wold see that in japan or aisa they have pictures of a chinese and asia jesus and mary.

when he visited mexico, they had pictures in their churches of mexican jesus and mary.

when he went to spain they had picture of jesus and mary as spanish.


all i can say is unless you have traveled the world to find this stuff out for your self, your argument has no point.


If you go to, asia, spain, mexico, you will not find their jesus to be white.


peace.

i havent seen that, i dont care where the pope goes or not

and if it is true all i can say is that they're false pictures.

Originally posted by Illmatic67you see portraits of a white jesus and white God all through media and you think queen cleopatra was white because she was portrayed by a white elizabeth taylor

This much is true...However, those older depictions of Jesus being white were the normal social & political interpretations as applied by the artists during those (more recent) times. I agree that it was artistically inaccurate & I've noticed that artists during the past decade or two *have* been depicting Jesus as being more bronze-toned.

However, Cleopatra *was* white! She had not a single drop of Egyptian blood in her veins...She was GREEK! As were all of the other rulers of the Ptolemic dynasties! The entire line of Ptolemic rulers were orginally generals in Alexander's armies when they conquered Egypt! Dragging Cleopatra into this particular discussion of race & color is both inaccurate & inappropriate.

Also, NC *is* correct that other races went to Egypt to live & some of them *did* acheive high positions within Egyptian society...At that point, they *would* swear allegiance to Egypt & marry into the royal family. The royal family of Egypt were the caretakers of not only the Egyptian military & trade, but also the political & *religious* facets of society. Pharoah was not only the secular head of state & the the last word in any questions of justice, but only the Pharoah could authorize foriegn trade (He gave *some* temples that right) & he also was considered the chief priest over *all* temples & conducted religious ceremonies for the entire country.

Unlike what you accuse other people of being, I'm not brainwashed by the *earlier* effects of such racism that *was* so deeply incorporated into the art & society in earlier decades...However, you seem to be brainwashed by the exact opposite of that same coin. Jesus preached equality & harmony among people, but you seem to be pushing the exact opposite with an extremist reaction to an (admitted) injustice amongst social mores, Illmatic. You are displaying the same racism against others that you've been crying out against. Such extremism is something that I have never held any respect for.

"Affirmative Action" laws have only served to add legal definitions & distinction to differing races: It's because of this that many hard-working, honest cuacasians have missed job opportunities because companies have a "quota of minorities" to maintain...Most such "Affirmative Action" laws have only pushed for *more* racism & distinction between people, acheiving the exact opposite of their purpose. As the comedian Gallagher has once said, "I have nothing against foreigners, but that's no reason to give them a job." A person's *abilities* & *qualifications* are what should be considered for being hired, not *what race or citizenry* that person has.

Originally posted by Illmatic67judge not or you shall be judged first.. isnt that what it says?
truth i have no comment for that... you sound pathetic tying to sound like God all of a sudden giving me my relevation type judgment, thanks.

Originally posted by Illmatic67brainwashed is you in the mirror.

And here you use such a scripture to display your own judgments on others? Such hipocrasy doesn't deserve my respect, and it doesn't serve any purpose for you to use such hipocrasy to gain the respect of others, either. If you *really* want to promote equality & eliminate racism/bigotry, then stop practicing the very thing that you're preaching against.

You're discussion about racism & bigotry have effectively turned this particular thread away from being a *historical* question & turned it into a debate on bigotry...The original question being "What happened?" into "What can I (Illmatic) turn this into?"


[Edited on 22-2-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

midnight you missed my point on why i said truth should loook in the mirror right after i said he was passing judgment on himself, maybe I should've made my point more clearer but i was doing exactly what he was doing.. you may not agree with me on a lot of things but i'm not that stupid.

cleopatra was not 100 percent greek, that's where your wrong.. she had both african and greek blood and her skin tone was dark, not light.


affirmative action, hmm.. you say it's cutting out job oppurtunities out of good working whites, well what happened 300 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!! not even, try 60-50 years ago.

good honest black christian folk couldnt get any jobs!! they couldnt even use the same bathrooms as whites but i'm sure you know the whole story so i aint gonna get into it.

the way i look at affirmative action , is that they're sayig sorry for the 350 years of slavery and injustice inflicted upon us.

You've missed *my* point about affermative action...Employers had to hire blacks in order to fill their quota, not because of job qualifications. Such employers faced with a choice of hiring a black man with *no* qualifications for the job was still hired while others (of any other race that wasn't black) may have had sufficient qualifications...Because of affirmative action, employers would not have any choice but to hire the unqualified person, simply *because* those policies don't give him choice.

That is where such policies have gone too far. I have nothing against any person, be they white, black, red, yellow or even purple with pink polka dots. Affirmative Action may have been a good idea, but it was taken too far to an extreme & removed the employer's choice of hiring by *qualifications*, not race or color.

Would you like it if the roles were reversed? Say you were white with great qualifications for a certain job...Then you find out that you were let slide for them hiring a Mexican in the US on a work visa simply because the employer had to "fill a quota"? Would you like that? Would you scream "unfair" as loudly as you do now? Probably.

And this discussion has nothing to do with the *historical question* that started this thread in the first place...And I will no longer follow your points if you stray off-topic again.

Just to keep you informed about recent events, people *have* been banned for less than what you've been doing here.

I don't think Illmatic has done anything worthy of even considering a ban, personally having read all his posts it never entered my head to consider it.

A heated debate is hardly grounds for getting chopped. and I certainly wouldn't want anyone to think they had to censor what they say in case they upset me over a topic. ... we are not little gods that have to be coddled in case we strike you with lightening.

I expect as good as I give, and poor illmatic has been given heaps from me!



[Edited on 23-2-2003 by Netchicken]

That's strange NC...I thought straying off topic was also considered...If not for banning, at least getting (at least a portion of) a thread moved. That's why I won't post with any more such diversions.