Healthcare Reform is Communism (Socialism)

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reply to post by TSOM87


When you start to sink, society should give you a float. We have an obglication and its is just common sense. Poverty, lack of education and support left unchecked creates...Frenso!! Crime, Drug Abuse, Child Abuse, Sadness, which grows like a cancer. And then one day it knocks on your front door and you become victim to the very people you chose to walk over.

Originally posted by ziggystar60

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Was Norway not just awarded best place in the world to live status?

I think it might come as a surprise to all those people that they are communist...and fools.


[edit on 16-10-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

To be correct, Norway is a socialist democratic country. I know it sounds very scary and communist to a lot of people, but Norway was still ranked as the world's best country to live in, for the fourth year in a row!

For the fourth year in a row, the United Nations has ranked Norway as having the highest standard of living in the world. Sweden, Australia and Canada are next in line, while the United States is further down the scale.

h

Yeah real great if you don't care about giving up rights. You can lose your gun rights, hunting rights, eating rights, driving rights, power rights,light bulb rights etc, etc, etc. all for a little "security". YOU CAN"T REMOVE ALL RISK FROM LIFE and still have a meaningful life.

How fun is life if everything is given to you from cradle to grave. All you are basically doing is living in a little more comfort, waiting to die from the day you were born. You eat sleep, play video games and watch movies. You want a simplistic lesson of what I am talking about (something for you to easily understand) go watch WALLE.

I will take the risk and uncertainty and freedom thank you! That is what used to make America the place to live but you whiny "liberals" have scared everybody into "compliance" and sedation!!!!!!!!!!!

What was the famous quote, oh yeah..

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

Benjamin Franklin

I'm still in favor of a robust non-profit public option, available to all Americans.

It's never difficult to look at some of the proposals within one of the many bills, and shout "the sky is falling".

There is a long way to go yet, nothing is law.

This nation needs health insurance reform, and a robust public option that forces the big companies to compete, those companies have caused this nation enough deaths, bankruptcies and pain, ENOUGH.

I'm not afraid, you can't make me be afraid.

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reply to post by TSOM87

I never said anything was stopping me? I know theres the private Health Care option. All i was saying it that i didn't like the idea of working hard day in day out and getting the same Health Care as someone who sits about all day. Don't think anyone would like that. Take away that sort of Health care system then people will realise that they are going to have to work to get any healthcare.

Some people who do work but mabay can't afford Prv Health Care, whos money is going to funding the NHS don't like the fact that theres lazy people getting it for nothing.

As People from the UK know, people who don't work in the UK make more money off the Government than some people who do work plus get free Health Care. It relly is a joke.

Why don’t you like the idea? It is hardly fun having a condition of any kind which requires medical attention, so why be so churlish as to not want people unable to work, or unable to get a job in this climate, to not get health care? Why do you so wholeheartedly buy into this sick system of everyone having to work until they drop, wasting their entire lives so some scummy bankers, key workers and the elite can cream millions or billions off each year? That is like moaning that your prison shackle is on tighter than your neighbour’s, rather than moaning at a system that has put you in prison.
I have never met anyone in my entire life who ever even mentioned minding everyone getting medical care. And it is NOT free. It is paid for by everyone for the totality of their working lives. And nobody is living the life of Reilly on basic benefits at all…nobody. They are hardly enough to feed and heat. If they have 6 kids and are conning the system somehow then yes, maybe they are. But the bulk of benefits recipients are not working the system, so why not reserve your indignation for those few that are conning the system. Basic benefits are £64.30 a week. So that is more than you get a working week is it? Sigh.
Maybe if the benefits were enough to live on in the first place people would not have to con the system, ever thought of that?

Already given exactly what is going on right now with the healthcare in my state and you obviously won't acknowledge it. Go ahead, we are glad you hate us, it means we are doing things right still. I am done arguing with children.

reply to post by I_am_Spartacus


And hagis is Scottish...not English. So we like Sunday Roasts here. You Know Roast Parsnips, Chicken and so on. Oh and a good curry. ....being a non racist country...we let people live in peace here.

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[edit on 17-10-2009 by asala]

Originally posted by Pathos
Healthcare Reform is Communism (Socialism)

1) Communism isn't Socialism, its not even that similar.

Socialism is Marxism.

2) If Universal Healthcare is "Socialist".. then what is the Police Service?

Eh Socialist.. But its not, so Universal Healthcare is not.

Universal healthcare, if done right, doesn't have to compete with private healthcare.



The conditioning used to convince you that Social Policies are Communism derives from the cold war and is now used by the wealthiest of you in order to keep the peasant class as the peasant class.

Don't fall for it.

If they are wealthy because they were born wealthy.. and it is true that money follows money... then why don't people who weren't born with a chance have a right to half decent living standards which universal healthcare gives.

Its the evolution of society, no need to be afraid of it.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
I've been calling Obama a Marxist.

Only because he belongs to the New Marxist Party

Link
www.stoptheaclu.com...

Is that ok?

interesting you should bring up marxist politics in this country...maybe this one point of karl marx might sound familiar:

en.wikipedia.org...

seems he had a knack for explaining the future (of his time) for america.

reply to post by kilas

Stupid is universal...unlike health care.

Do I need to say that only a fool would sum up a national population based upon a web-scrap with one person?

Best line of the contest? "Your stupid". Sorry...the education thread may be found elsewhere

Back to the issue, please...and I simply have to laff at the rational that the Norwegian lifestyle represents a trade-off for those rights that Americans hold so dear. Take a poll...aside from the weather...see who wants to swap?

The general ideas the government have are in and of themselves not bad ideas. However, it is the fact that they are planning to be implemented by demented and some could say dysfunctional and insane men that is the problem. If you go into hospital, you are the property of that hospital and therefore the state while there. That is just so disgusting. They can end your life, refuse treatment or even take organs from you while you are still alive and nobody can stop them. That is the danger of state control of healthcare, and of employing lunatics with Nazi thinking who might be best served being institutionalised for some time.

One possibility presented in the book, termed by Sunstein as “routine removal,” posits that “the state owns the rights to body parts of people who are dead or in certain hopeless conditions, and it can remove their organs without asking anyone’s permission.”

“Though it may sound grotesque, routine removal is not impossible to defend,” wrote Sunstein. “In theory, it would save lives, and it would do so without intruding on anyone who has any prospect for life.”

So, when the state deems it convenient for them, they can claim right over your body. Ironically, this is the same state that believes that the right for a woman to have control of her body (to kill a baby) is sacred. Your right to keep your internal organs? Well…not so much.

This also is reminiscent of the cold and brutal pragmatism of the Nazi T4 program, which was sold to the German public in a similar manner. The program was seen as a way to free up funding that could be used for other purposes, such as housing. Mentally ill or retarded individuals would be “liberated from a life not worth living,” and the funds freed by these acts of “mercy” were supposed to be funneled into public programs. More than likely, they bought tanks and planes with it.

westernfrontamerica.com...

And anyone who thinks this government is not communist is demented. One only needs to listen to them all stating their communist allegiance, see what the czars all have in common, see who Obama has been surrounded by from day one of his life, and hear Anita Dunn espousing her adoration of Mao Tse Tung. If you still cannot see this then I despair.

Basically you will be in danger if you are ill, old, mentally ill, disabled or have any serious condition where it is deemed by psychopaths that it would be cheaper to end your life. Cheaper…cheaper….while the insane idiots rake in the money. I know who should be controlled and limited and whose very lives should be monitored to see if they are fit to be in society, and it’s not the masses.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by kilas

 

Back to the issue, please...and I simply have to laff at the rational that the Norwegian lifestyle represents a trade-off for those rights that Americans hold so dear. Take a poll...aside from the weather...see who wants to swap?

Yea, in fairness, if you are going to try and put down countries that use "Socialist" policies, Norway, Sweden, UK, Ireland, France, Holland, Germany, Canada etc etc are probably the worst examples you can come up with.

These are ONLY some of the wealthiest countries per capita in the world and have the highest standards of living, development and population happiness.



It is an American thing and it does stem from the Cold war.

Our "Socialist" system here in Ireland is minimal and is for those in a low wage bracket but the idea of leaving the private sector take over basic healthcare for profit is preposterous.

It can only lead to bad healthcare in order to further profit.. how can you make money off a healthy population.. Its a basic business model ffs!!!

I cant understand why this is so hard for so many Americans.

If the shoe was on the other foot and they were dying of cancer after their insurer ditched them and they cant afford life saving treatment... they would have a different opinion.

Its just greed.. plain and simple.

Originally posted by oneclickaway
I know who should be controlled and limited and whose very lives should be monitored to see if they are fit to be in society, and it’s not the masses.

Kinda puts me in mind of a song...

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgment of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I don't think I want to hand you that shotgun. Thanks, anyway.

Originally posted by oneclickaway
The general ideas the government have are in and of themselves not bad ideas. However, it is the fact that they are planning to be implemented by demented and some could say dysfunctional and insane men that is the problem. If you go into hospital, you are the property of that hospital and therefore the state while there. That is just so disgusting. They can end your life, refuse treatment or even take organs from you while you are still alive and nobody can stop them.

Are there actually ANY countries that provide Universal healthcare that don't have a private system??

This is where the argument gets ridiculous..

If you can afford healthcare, get it, it will be a lot cheaper because of Universal and provide a premium service that Universal won't give.

If you cant, you get basic Universal healthcare..

Healthcare shouldn't fall into the "Socialism" ideal.

If you want a bodyguard you pay for one, other than that, you use the police.

If you want premium healthcare, pay for insurance.. other than that, Universal healthcare.

How hard is that to understand??

Of course they are going to shut off your machines if you are dying and the doctor says there is no chance for you.. if your family want to keep you alive, they will have to pay for it. Thats the bad part of it but its a tiny tiny tiny tiny part of the overall greater good.

Nazi? FFS!

Originally posted by TSOM87
Communism Socialism, i don't care. All i know is that i don't like it!

And there lies the crux of much of the problem with these kinds of 'socialism/communism/Marxism' threads.

Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus
This already exists in places and we are experiencing it first hand here.
I bet 75-85% of those currently on it will no longer qualify for it. Oh, they will let you stay on it if you subject to their humiliating, time consuming, requirements like multiple online surveys appraisals, doctors visits every six months, medications, etc. Its designed to either fit their norm, or more likely, to cause you to give up and go back to their crappy expensive plans, now that the competition is out of the way.

I find this post to be persuasive. (I am not too impressed with the OP, but I think this is an enlightening argument.)

What makes everyone believe this push for public health care won't end up with REQUIRED proctology exams, gynecology exams, forced participation in a system that requires unpleasant and unchecked medical checkups based upon the results of dubious studies that fit some norm but actually fit nobody well? Why not require drug testing for everyone, at the same time forcing people outside the norm to take drugs? Some people could be persuaded to that line of thinking. We see it right now, here at ATS.

Of course, nobody will actually arrest you and force you into this. But you won't be able to get public health insurance without it. (But you will still have to pay for it, anyway.)

Edit: What I outline above seems a basic problem with mixing socialism (cooperation) with capitalism (competition). The most likely outcome: nobody wants to use the public cooperative. Why? Because the capitalists influence the lawmakers to make it that way.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Axial Leader]

Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus

Yeah real great if you don't care about giving up rights. You can lose your gun rights, hunting rights, eating rights, driving rights, power rights,light bulb rights etc, etc, etc. all for a little "security".

Yes, that's right, nobody in Norway goes hunting, we never eat anything because we have no right to, there are no cars on the roads because we have no driving rights, we have no electricity and especially NO light bulbs in our houses!

Thank you, fellow member, for giving me the biggest laugh I have had here at ATS in a LONG time! Usually I only get depressed when I read political threads, but you put a VERY big smile on my face today.

Have a hug for it.