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Healthcare Reform is Communism (Socialism)

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posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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Healthcare Reform is Communism (Socialism)
He comes the part where I tell everyone that I was right. Remember those comments that I made about - if the health care reform was to become law, everyone's physical self would be owned by the government? I also said the bills will force you to weight a certain amount, for you to stop smoking, etc...

I was right.

Senate proposals put premium on healthy living
www.msnbc.msn.com...



By more than doubling the maximum rewards and penalties that companies can apply to employees who flunk medical evaluations, the bills could put workers under intense financial pressure to lose weight, stop smoking or even lower their cholesterol.


I couldn't figure how they would do it, but the pieces finally dropped into place. If you do not follow the rules, they will financially ruin you into oblivion.



"Everybody said that we're going to be ending discrimination based on preexisting conditions. But this is in effect discrimination again based on preexisting conditions," said Ann Kempski of the Service Employees International Union.


"But, but, but, the article also says that private healthcare will not do so."
Remember, the final version will force everyone onto a public option. They will do it by making the public option more affordable; thus, employers will just dump people onto the system.

Welcome to communism! You will soon be owned.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Pathos]




posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by Pathos
Healthcare Reform is Communism (Socialism)


But communism isn't socialism...so your premise is wrong to begin with!



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 

Historically socialism is communism. Period.

Anyone who tells you differently is a fool.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 07:22 AM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


Really? Can you prove that with a credible source? Because they are fundamentally different ideologies. But these days they are used as blunt objects with which to beat political opponents. Remember McCarthy?

People seem to be trapped into the idea that any ideology is black-and-white. Either A or B but never any mix. If healthcare reform (and by that I'm assuming you are meaning the provision of healthcare for 'the masses') is socialist or communist in nature, then so are food stamps, welfare, medicare, medicaid, subsidized housing, subsidized education (student grants/loans), public education, etc.

So I'm with you. Let's scrap all that stuff and go back to the feudal system the right obviously prefers. Screw the little guy.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by Pathos
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 

Historically socialism is communism. Period.
Anyone who tells you differently is a fool.


I do believe that countries like Norway, Sweden, Portugal and India identify themselves as socialist. Folks to the south like to identify Canada as being mighty pink as well.

Was Norway not just awarded best place in the world to live status?

I think it might come as a surprise to all those people that they are communist...and fools.

But hey...they're foreigners, right? what do they know?

[edit on 16-10-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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I've been calling Obama a Marxist.

Only because he belongs to the New Marxist Party

Link
www.stoptheaclu.com...

Is that ok?



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Johnny! We're AMERICANS. Our brains are bigger.

Of course we know more!




posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 

Johnny! We're AMERICANS. Our brains are bigger.
Of course we know more!


Well, then I guess you've caught us with our pink pantaloons down. Here's a photo of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition:




posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


You just gave me my new image for my desktop.







posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 07:51 AM
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IMO i like the idea of working hard and paying for the best healthcare that i can find. Rather than working hard and getting the same service as someone who dose nothing. In the UK you have the NHS everybody gets free health care even if you don't work and even if you don't want to work. Communism Socialism, i don't care. All i know is that i don't like it!

Tsom87



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by TSOM87
 


Except the fact that in UK, like in Portugal (i might be wrong though), nothing prevents you from having a "superior" (this is really questionable, ive seen private hospitals that have inferior service quality to public ones) service on a private hospital.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by TSOM87
 


But you see, no one is preventing you from doing that. What they are trying to do is setup a system whereby everyone gets some baseline 'adequate' healthcare. The healthcare version of food stamps if you will. If you want to buy extras... go for it. No one is stopping you.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


Nope....Communism is not socialism. Communism is where all finance is owned and run by the state. Socialism is where some areas are owned by the state.

Hey peeps....this Jonny chap is justa typical Yank...Too Dumn to know much about anything. Send Obama over to the EU, he would work here. Anyway, this whole argument proves how stupid americans are. THEY WOULD CHOOSE FOR THEIR HEALTH TO BE RUN BY PROFITERING PRIVATE SECTOR, AND THAT PROFIT GOING TO LINE THE POCKETS OF A CORRUPT INDUSTRY.

So let me get this straight, you would pay insurance to the government instead of the private sector, and get the same if not much better service and care, and people below the poverty line will be given health care...which is now a lot of US peeps. So, I must be really missing something.

Pump money into private sector, who want to profit from your ill health. And it is therefore in their interest to keep you paying.

Or, pay money to the government for a better universal health care system. That is NFP...Not For Profit... ANd what profit are made, go to all the people in the US that can't afford even a basic level of care.

Im missing something here. But, thank god I live in the country of reason, intelect and logic...and not the extremist racist vile US. Hooray!!

Thanks to Obama, Isreal, Iran , the CIA, NSA and your banking system the rest of the world is realising that the US is a #ing time bomb of simple minded maniacs who #ign everying up. Team America ....# NO!!!!

But I'm glad that the US is showing it true colours.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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This already exists in places and we are experiencing it first hand here and it is BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Michigan, Blue Care Network, a "co-op", basically a government subsidized non profit healthcare "company, added "Healthy Blue Living " to their line of standard expensive crappy plans, a few years ago. it was very affordable if you qualified so a huge majority of employers moved to it. There have been private health care companies that have moved out of state because of this.

It wasn't super difficult to qualify, you could basically have one of their major "health issues" over weight, high blood pressure, etc) and still qualify with no snafu. NOW, that they have gotten most of the state on it, they have upped the requirements on the things most people have an issue with and I bet 75-85% of those currently on it will no longer qualify for it. Oh, they will let you stay on it if you subject to their humiliating, time consuming, requirements like multiple online surveys appraisals, doctors visits every six months, medications, etc. Its designed to either fit their norm, or more likely, to cause you to give up and go back to their crappy expensive plans, now that the competition is out of the way. Fit body builders will NOT meet the requirements of qualification for this plan now!! IT is a NIGHTMARE!!!


So for those of you who still believe obammy, liberals in congress, and the rest of the "do-gooders" that things will be better than before with their new and improved super socialistic health care reform, , it WON"T!!!!! We are Living their dream here now and I can't tell you how infuriating it is (and I don't have any issues other than a little extra weight that I am now being FORCED to lose ).

[edit on 16-10-2009 by I_am_Spartacus]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:37 AM
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I never said anything was stopping me? I know theres the private Health Care option. All i was saying it that i didn't like the idea of working hard day in day out and getting the same Health Care as someone who sits about all day. Don't think anyone would like that. Take away that sort of Health care system then people will realise that they are going to have to work to get any healthcare.

Some people who do work but mabay can't afford Prv Health Care, whos money is going to funding the NHS don't like the fact that theres lazy people getting it for nothing.

As People from the UK know, people who don't work in the UK make more money off the Government than some people who do work plus get free Health Care. It relly is a joke.

Tsom87



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by TSOM87
 


You don't like it? Thats because....your stupid.

In the UK we have a better health care system than you don't we by all reports? A true mark of a society is how well we care for those less fortunate. In the UK I pay tax, which helps some people. Lets take person a) A Wife, 3 kids, husband dies, he was the income earner. In the US she would be #*d. She won't be able to care for her children.

In the UK, she will be given health care, Plus she will have access to new deal, i.e. child care, and work support and training, to help her get back into work and support her family, as well as get child support to make sure she can feed her family.

Thank god I don't live where you live, and lets hope that your don't don't become one of about 60% of you population that can not afford what we get in the UK for free. Otherwise, guess what...you would be ##d.

You just don't know how annoying im finding you yanks at the moment. How can such a large nation be home to so many stupid people? I don't get get, did Europe send all its degenerate over there all those hundreds of years ago?

Its like Lord of the Flies with more people.

And why oh why are American so threatened by everything that is not american. I mean. Communism when looked at intectually, and combined with free markets, does not sound like a bad thing. Only an american would see Public Sector Industry as communism. Your like a flipin comedy.

Lets face it as well. The US has two politcal parties....is that not a stones throw away from a dictatorship?? Two parties!! Thats its. No wonder your going down hill.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:40 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by TSOM87
 


No they don't make more money than working people. There are one or two criminals that try and corrupt the system. Is this the type of #e that you yanks end up hearing on TV.....Cricky no wonder your messed up.

Before the economy went pete tong, we had about 900,000 on income support. We are pumping millions to getting people off income support through training , education, all sorts of things.

Again, the mark of an EVOLVED SOCIETY, is how well you treat those less of fortunate. Thats why in the US you have placed like FRESNO, no money no support, no training or help.

Again I say, lets just hope you don't get laid off and experience the full force of your own society.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by kilas
 



You don't Swim you Sink! I like that Idea. Plan Ahead you never know whats around the corner. I Like that idea. We obviously have different views!

Tsom87



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Was Norway not just awarded best place in the world to live status?

I think it might come as a surprise to all those people that they are communist...and fools.


[edit on 16-10-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]


To be correct, Norway is a socialist democratic country. I know it sounds very scary and communist to a lot of people, but Norway was still ranked as the world's best country to live in, for the fourth year in a row!



For the fourth year in a row, the United Nations has ranked Norway as having the highest standard of living in the world. Sweden, Australia and Canada are next in line, while the United States is further down the scale.

www.aftenposten.no...

Not bad for a bunch of communist fools and herring munchers who can go "fjuck" ourselves, eh?


Seems to me we must be doing SOMETHING right with our tax system and our national health care system. And to tell you a story: I have a relative who married into our family, and he was born and raised in Texas. He once told me that he whined non stop about the taxes after he moved to Norway with the rest of his family when he was 18. (His mother is Norwegian.)

Then his father got cancer, and went through several complicated operations in addition to chemo therapy and a period of physiotherapy and rehabilitation after he was decleared healthy. All for free. My relative's whining toned downed a little.

Then his mother got a heart condition, and she also went through operations and treatment, all for free. My relative whined even less.

Some years later my relative's wife got pregnant with twins. The pregnancy was difficult and risky, she needed to be followed up closely, and the twins were born premature and needed special care for some time. The kids received the best care possible, still all for free, and they are healthy, young men today.

My relative has stopped whining completely. The last time we talked about this, he told me that the biggest difference between living in Norway and USA, is that there is so much less to WORRY about here. You pay your taxes, and you know you will be taken care of when you need it. Your family will be taken care of. You don't have to worry about getting ruined because of medical bills. You don't have to worry about not getting health care if you can't work or pay your taxes, if you have no insurance.

I think our system works just fine. And taking care of everyone, also those who are not capable of contributing by working and paying taxes, is just the decent thing to do, in my opinion. We can all fall down in life, we can all loose our job, get sick and end up broke. There are no garanties in life. None at all.



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