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Time travel impossibilities

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posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 01:24 AM
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Just speaking philosophically , it is impossible . Not physically ,quantum physics explains that particles that makes up photons travel back in time, I think (?). From that you can state that there is no free will and everything is predetermined .

On that premise we can say that humans traveling through time would be... impossible to say the least. I'll try to explain my theory in an example:

Backwards

If subject A wanted to go back in time to stop event X: A goes back in time , stops X and returns back after he goes back . X has changes to Y Simple enough, right? Nope. X was always Y because it always turned out like Y. A always goes back and changes X to Y Even in A's present X was Y , so X would have no reason to go back.

Treat it like a math equation:
event X=1:
A goes back to change X
subtract 1,
in A's present X=0 so when A's present comes along
X=0 so A has no reason to change X to 0

or:



basically #4 cancels out #1

X could be any event, JFK assassination to (theoretically, stepping on an ant)

Forwards

will work because of the fact that events haven't happened for our time frame.

so: X equal's current time for A, Y is the return time for A


X--Y--------------------Future--------------

A goes to future comes back at Y.
Say future= 50yrs
from X to future 50yrs of A's absence
X returns at Y
Y cancels out X because A continues existence


If anyone has a better understanding on this, I would like to hear some feedback




posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:17 AM
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I think time travel may be mathematically possible in some overly convoluted way... but in physical reality it is not. The sheer amount of power it would take to completely reverse every particle in the universe back to a previous point/state in time/space is off the scale. I doubt even the universe has that much energy.

IRM



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:32 AM
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I just erased my message. I really think you should change the jist of your argument to "Time travel impossibilites when going back in time to change something". Because that's really where the strength of your argument lies. It doesn't really apply if someone goes back in time to sight see.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by theyreadmymind]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:44 AM
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I have said this before and I will say it again, their is no such thing as impossibilities. When you limit your mind to possibilities is when you limit your own-searching-searching-searching-divinity.

Time travel may have been done. How do you or I know. If anyone or anything time traveled how would one observe it. It would change reality as you perceive it.

In my public profile-Least favorite topic-please once you close your mind you become one of them-you know-that is impossible

Time is relative-Einstein's own theorom. Time is a relativistic situation. It is only observable as a constant compared to ones own reality. It is only perceived to exist as a flow of something perceived. Time is not a known quantitative factor but only perceived. We do not know, we can only assume we know.

Once someone can prove that time is a true constant, will I presume that it is real.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


Honestly, I think he understands what you are saying, maybe even more than you do. The very event he is talking about is exactly what you are describing. Except instead of it happening seamlessly here in our present because of some unknown time traveler from the future, it's happening seamlessly in the time traveler's present before the time traveler even makes a temporal jump. That is, the very changes that will happen in the time traveler's (relatively speaking) future are affecting the time traveler's present even before he makes his first jump, rendering his trip obsolete, and thus some kind of paradox. Believe me, he gets it.

I agree though, just because it looks impossible doesn't mean it is impossible.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by theyreadmymind]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


uh, ok? If you killed your dog, you wouldn't expect it to be living some point in the future. seems pretty darn constant to me. Time travel doesn't work like "poof!" its back to the future alternate universe. Everything is what it is, and always be. I always posted this thread, always in this chair, it happened this way and nothing can change it.

And to theyreadmymind: if you could only view the past, like a TV I would agree, but traveling would cause events. Not just big ones, anything you come in contact with. Of course maybe stepping on a leaf wouldn't cause a paradox but its hard to even imagine a large noticeable event paradox let alone things we barely notice everyday.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by afterschoolfun]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by afterschoolfun
reply to post by endisnighe
 

And to theyreadmymind: if you could only view the past, like a TV I would agree, but traveling would cause events. Not just big ones, anything you come in contact with. Of course maybe stepping on a leaf wouldn't cause a paradox but its hard to even imagine a large noticeable event paradox let alone things we barely notice everyday.
[edit on 16-10-2009 by afterschoolfun]


I was responding to the OP's formula for why his theory only applied to someone intending to (and successfully) changing the past. As long as you had no intentions when you went in the past but to observe, his argument fails. It doesn't matter if you killed Joe in the past, if Joe is still dead when you return, he was never part of the impetus for you to travel back in time to begin with. I agree with you, it would be hard to imagine not making big waves, but I can't imagine how I would prove it. Can you prove that the butterfly effect would prevent you from being born, beginning your mission, or finishing it? If you could, I'd like to hear it. I'm sure it would be a very complicated matter.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by theyreadmymind]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by afterschoolfun
reply to post by endisnighe
 


uh, ok? If you killed your dog, you wouldn't expect it to be living some point in the future. seems pretty darn constant to me. Time travel doesn't work like "poof!" its back to the future alternate universe. Everything is what it is, and always be. I always posted this thread, always in this chair, it happened this way and nothing can change it.

And to theyreadmymind: if you could only view the past, like a TV I would agree, but traveling would cause events. Not just big ones, anything you come in contact with. Of course maybe stepping on a leaf wouldn't cause a paradox but its hard to even imagine a large noticeable event paradox let alone things we barely notice everyday.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by afterschoolfun]


actually, in science it is impossible to obseve anything, even if it is recorded from a mechanical aspect and later viewed, without effecting the system.

superposition and the observer effect

basically, even recording or remotely viewing will change the slightest aspect of the system.


to the OP:

what you are describing is also known as the grandfather paradox of time travel. this only renders time travel impossible in reference to that if there is a single timeline.

multiverse (more wiki)

if there are infinite possibilities, then you would simply either return to your time line and never see the changes, or return to another timeline where the changes are impacted, and your life could be dramatically different. either way, by not going back to the timeline that you camefrom, you could go back a million times until you got it just right. but you would have to deal with the idea of there are a million "me's" out there, some may be typing, some may be writing, some may be dead, but they are all... me



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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Up until about a year ago, I was of the opinion that there existed "impossibilities", I no longer believe that. Seems anything is possible. Laws of Physics we once thought locked in concrete suddenly are falling apart with the discovery of the Casimir effect and Zero Point Energy.

On the matter of time travel, it most likely is a "can't see the forest for the trees" situation. I think one would have to step into another dimension or universe not affected by our timeline in order to know what move to make which would achieve the desired outcome. I am not so sure some of the odd things we see appear in our skies may not be from our future attempting to modify some of our more obvious screw ups.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 04:03 AM
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reply to post by afterschoolfun
 




quantum physics explains that particles that makes up photons travel back in time,
I think (?). From that you can state that there is no free will and everything is predetermined .


That is one possible interpretation. Another would be that it is possible for events happening now to change the past.

The past is no more fixed than the future.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 04:25 AM
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I can travel forward in time...yes its just an everyday event for me. I have the ability to travel 1 second per second forward in time at whim.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by afterschoolfun
 


I almost agree or am misunderstanding your perspective or you are misunderstanding mine. Paradoxes cannot exist. As one cannot perceive the time paradoxes. If someone or something was to time travel the timeline that one is in would either seize to exist or would be fractured from any other timeline. Now, if you are talking about an outside observer that is a total different situation. Of course that is where I brought in the divinity situation in my original post.

I or you in a closed loop-time universe-cannot postulate what would happen. My postulation of our existence is a molecule-time bubble that touches all other molecules-time bubbles in an infinite ocean of molecules. The time/space fabric touches all other possibilities at an infinite number of points to all other molecules-time bubbles. It is a work in progress. Imagine that all possibilities are possible at all given times and their is an infinite number of universes or possibilities.

Philosophy is the only true mind game. The more we know-or think we know-the less we know or the more we wish we know.

S&F just because you made me think or thunk.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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Your logic is based on a single timeline. As soon as you relegate something as intagible as time into one mode you have lost half the war. ALTHOUGH in a multiverse there exists a universe where the multiverse doesnt exist. Given that in the multiverse theory every possible reality exists then by that very definition there must also exist a reality where there are NO multiple realities. SO in THAT reality your theory might hold water but that still doesnt DISPROVE multiverse theory if anything it proves it.


Does your head hurt yet??

In all seriousness time travel is possible, we can already travel forward in time now we just have to figure out how to get back. best case scenarios as far as i can figure is an alternate reality to yours just a couple of years behind.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by TiM3LoRd

In all seriousness time travel is possible, we can already travel forward in time now we just have to figure out how to get back. best case scenarios as far as i can figure is an alternate reality to yours just a couple of years behind.


That wouldn't be considered time travel though. You're speaking of a dimensional jump sideways into an alternate reality. It doesn't really matter if it's a couple of years behind ours or not.

To truly time travel, everything in the universe would have to be back in the exact same spot and state as it was according to the time we are traveling back to. If you only took the earth back in time, then we would blink back into existence outside of the solar system, therefore, you would have to take the whole solar system back in time, ergo the galaxy and the universe otherwise, we are just describing a strange form of teleportation. Everything is relative in time and space to everything else. It's all or nothing. It won't magically happen like it does on the movies.

IRM

[edit on 16/10/09 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by wx4caster
 


Your thinking is a very common misinterpretation of what observing means in QM. Observation in QM means transfer of information. There are some QM theories that do require a conscious observer though.

As an example, if I view an experiment remotely with a camera to see whether a lightbulb flashes in response to detecting a beta particle, whether I am looking at the cameras monitor or if the camera is on or off will make no difference to the outcome of the experiment.

If I measure the spin of an electron for example then this is an observation and will change the properties of the electron.

I hope this makes sense - I'm not trying to bash!



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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Philidelphia experiment has steak and cheese in it? Like modern physics is ment to take anyone any where. With the college electorates raping any anti consumerisum idea. What a joke of a process, when you patent a working product you must prove your physics and they want to get you in the end. Repression of any kind for any price for compleate profit.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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I think you are viewing time incorrectly. Perhaps time is not linear, but exists in the same state as space. In other words, could "time" exist simultaneously with itself? That would explain the ability certain particles seem to have, although maybe they are not "traveling backward", but just to a different spot. Perhaps it's an extra dimensional equivalent of traveling to the grocery store.

That's the way I have always viewed time, as something that exists everywhere, and not on a linear time-line, but all moments happening at the same "time", just at different "points".

I hope that makes sense.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by aravoth]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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IMHO, not possible...If so, WE WOULD NOT EXIST (PARADOX)



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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What people are forgetting is that we time travel every day, in a way.

Someone flying in a plane from say London to New York, time is going SLOWER for them than it is a guy sat in his chair doing nothing at home.

What i find interesting is, we can see the stars, which are for all intents and purposes the light from said star millions of years ago.

Now imagine what they can see... are they 'technically' ahead of us in time? Right now, at one of those stars, if they looked back at us, is earth still there? Is it gone? Are they seeing dinosaurs, or us?



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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If E=MC2, Does MC2=E?



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