Why "Leader of the free world?", page 2

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reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 11:06 AM by Miraj

reply to post by Dzlr40

It's propaganda.. Ive seen many adults use it, it's to make America and it's president feel special about themselves.

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 11:06 AM by manxman2

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

I'm sitting here wondering why America is so obsessed with other countries. I mean, American military and American big corporations can't actually keep out of other countries.

We'll do you a deal, # off back to your own country and leave the rest of the world alone and we'll stop being "obsessed with america and what goes on over here".

Fair?

seems fair to me ..

should take a poll.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by manxman2]

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 11:11 AM by vor78

reply to post by Merriman Weir

Absolutely! I'd LOVE to get every ounce of foreign influence, especially modern, post-WW2 western European influence, the hell out of the United States. That's a fantastic trade, as far as I'm concerned.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by vor78]

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 11:34 AM by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by Merriman Weir

Absolutely! I'd LOVE to get every ounce of foreign influence, especially modern, post-WW2 western European influence, the hell out of the United States. That's a fantastic trade, as far as I'm concerned.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by vor78]

I'm more than happy to shake on that deal, but, for the sake of clarification, can you expand on the post-WW2 influence European influence. I was under the impression, perhaps wrongly but due to American posters here and elsewhere, that Europe and even Britain were inconsequential, insignificant and had no influence on America. Are you telling me this isn't the case and that America is actually very influenced by what happens in Britain and the rest of Europe?

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 11:48 AM by vor78

reply to post by Merriman Weir

I've never made that argument concerning lack of foreign influence in the US. I'd say that the political, economic and social leaders of most of our major cities have been greatly influenced by the same types from western Europe for the last sixty years or so. That influence has spread from the leadership into the population of our cities and this is one of the major reasons why you see such a divide between those in the cities and in flyover territory in America now. That divide is tearing this country to pieces and the many of its roots lie in ideas that came from across the pond.

That's not an attack on western Europe, but to say that its influence has helped create a situation where the population of our country is divided into two groups with largely incompatible world views.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by vor78]

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 12:23 PM by wouldu

Don't worry mate, the world will not be free for long

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 12:40 PM by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by Merriman Weir

I've never made that argument concerning lack of foreign influence in the US.

Well, I wasn't suggesting that you personally had made this comment, but it's something that I see very regularly on these boards and elsewhere: Americans think Europe is pretty insignificant and inconsequential to America the Super-Power.

I'd say that the political, economic and social leaders of most of our major cities have been greatly influenced by the same types from western Europe for the last sixty years or so. That influence has spread from the leadership into the population of our cities and this is one of the major reasons why you see such a divide between those in the cities and in flyover territory in America now. That divide is tearing this country to pieces and the many of its roots lie in ideas that came from across the pond.

I'm not so sure that this makes sense. You talk about influence in the population of your cities and yet, even pre-WW2, which you mentioned as being significant earlier, you had large amount of immigrants from Western Europe in your cities. I mean, half of the Americans I seem to talk to claim to be Irish-American, Italian-American and so on. That influence would have been there from the start, certainly from the 1700s and the 1800s, it doesn't stem from post-WW2.

Whilst I understand the beef, even if it is getting a little 'old' America has with Britain, from what I understand, there's a big French influence in the founding of America, an influence that was acknowledged when the French shipped over a statue of a woman wearing a Christmas cracker hat. I know America has a reputation - which might or might not be true - for having poor world geography, but has America redrawn the maps so they don't include France in Western Europe?

Also, as far as I'm aware, your biggest immigration demographic is actual Mexican not Western European. Where's their influence in all this? I've also noticed that when I read disparaging comments about Mexicans, often there's an element of 'they're not like us' and quite often that 'us' refers to Americans of European ancestry.

That's not an attack on western Europe, but to say that its influence has helped create a situation where the population of our country is divided into two groups with largely incompatible world views.

But you've not actually said what this influence is yet. You're talking about this vague thing that's apparently spread from your leaders into your cities but have done nothing to say what it is.

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 02:34 PM by vor78

reply to post by Merriman Weir

Certainly, Europe has always had a major influence on America's citizens, but by the same token, I think its also undeniable that our country developed its own unique culture since it was first settled about 400 years ago, thanks to the barrier presented by the Atlantic Ocean. In the last 50-60 years, however, advancements in technology have made it much easier to communicate and travel that distance and that's why its a bigger issue now than before.

The most obvious influence is on various social policies and attitudes on abortion, gun control, religion, etc. Compare the attitudes of people in Britain and France on those issues, to those in New York, Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, or most any major US city. Its not that much different. Europe is further left on average, but our cities are getting there. Get outside those major cities, though, and there's a big change. You can really see this cultural divide if you look at a county level election map of the United States and how people vote.

But why do I think its coming from Europe? Where do Europeans go when they visit the United States? It isn't to Nowhere, Oklahoma, that's for certain. They're mostly going to the major cities on business and political meetings, vacations, etc, and of course, they don't isolate themselves. They go out and talk to other businessmen, politicians, and just common people and through that mechanism, over time, it filters into US society. One could certainly argue that this similarity of views developed independently of one another, and it has to some extent, but given the concentration of liberal views in US cities and how its expanded primarily from the coastal cities, the most likely destination for foreign visitors, leads me to believe that outside influence has been a major factor.

The same thing happens the other way around, but by different means. Look at how much of our crap pop culture that we export overseas and how much damage it does. Don't you wish you could get rid of that? I don't blame you a bit, either.

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