EXCLUSIVE: Obama loosens missile technology controls to China

Originally posted by marg6043
We can compare China with America raise to wealth, it didn't took America long to achieve the status of superpower in the world after the great depression but China is moving faster.

Here's an interesting perspective. They may run the course a lot faster that we did since everything is accelerated. Rise and then Fall.

Nobody tells the Chinese government how to run their nation, in America we have plenty of foreign lobbyist running our government along with all the private interest within our soil.

No wonder the government doesn't have time for the nations best interest and those of the people.

I'm of the view that we won't give them the whole enchilada. We've had a good run of high technology totally unmolested for several heavy decades of R & D. The Big Brass wont allow the best or deepest secrets to be released no matter who is sitting behind the big desk in the white house.


[edit on 16-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I agree, greed and over confidence is one of the biggest factor of a downfall of empires, but with China they had centuries to prepared for anything, I will never underestimate their goals.

I agree also that the best secrets will be keep, but taking into consideration that our nation is open house for sale that under estimates the loyalties specially when we have a government that is very much corrupted.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I agree, greed and over confidence is one of the biggest factor of a downfall of empires, but with China they had centuries to prepared for anything, I will never underestimate their goals.

This is where I separate myself from many on this topic. The present Chinese government is only 60+ years young. Not thousands. They are relatively newcomers to the world stage. Yes money makes people take notice but it only buys you just so much clout. We should know also ask the Japanese.

Giving the present Chinese Government credit for their great and illustrious heritage is like giving the present day Egyptian Government credit for the great pyramid. or the UK Government credit for Stonehenge.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Remember Japan was defeated by the US before it was allowed to raise to economic greatness.

The greed of corporations looking for cheap labor and our government insatiable spending is the one that is making Chinas economical greatness, no wars.

No because of defeat.

Like any empire China will fall eventually but by that time America greatness will be a thing in the history books and another nation will be taking the place.

I don't separate myself from historical facts because history tells the stories.

I was one of those that few years ago were predicting the fall of the US economy and the raise of the Chinas power, when I did that I was call all kind of names because people still believed just a few years ago that China was still in the middle ages and that Americas economy was sound and solid.

But, hey a lot happen since then including, 9/11, Bush and two wars and now the economic crisis.

I am going to leave it to time . . . time will tell.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by plumranch

 

When the Chinese came here a few months back one of the parts of the agreement was that the US would share more high-tech and the Chinese would not foreclose on us.

Slayer, I don't think the Chinese can easily foreclose on us because that would make their huge pile of dollars worthless, while possibly driving up the rate of the Euro and hence hurting their exports even further.

I believe that Obama's overtures to the Chinese are a way to get them on the bandwagon for sanctions, and that's that.

Look the bottom line is, China owns your arse, like really owns every single one of you, land of the free is now the land owned by the communists, which is funny as hell.

Also there's no point not selling them your tech, you think China can't work it out for themselves ? You want them to not sell you their tech ?

reply to post by buddhasystem


Yes you are right that is one of the reason, darn I forgot about Iran.



Still China has been buying less recently when it comes to debt and no showing up in many instances, is many ways that China can influence the American government and is not only with lobbyist.

China having 1 Trillion plus of reserves in American dollar minus what they have change for other currencies has been very busy buying everything the mighty dollar can buy.

I think if things get very hard for them they will find a way to get rid of the dollar, they are already working very hard at it.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

...
I believe that Obama's overtures to the Chinese are a way to get them on the bandwagon for sanctions, and that's that.

Just like opening up our nuclear sites to Russia got them on board too eh?

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Remember Japan was defeated by the US before it was allowed to raise to economic greatness.

The greed of corporations looking for cheap labor and our government insatiable spending is the one that is making Chinas economical greatness, no wars.

Like any empire China will fall

I'm also a student of history....

I think too many are already raising China to empire status when they have just barely got out of the starting bloc. I remember the Japanese arrogance about how they knew how to be better at this than the US simply because they had decades of unabated growth. As soon as they had their first major recession it bottomed out. China is on the rise we have seen this before.

Contrary to pop culture internet voodoo economic experts. Economics 101 states there will always be periods of growth then contraction. It's cyclical. The US is in the worst one for many reasons. I think too many want to apply a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Right now China is on a straight path up. But as far as a real empire it's not about how much money and growth you have but how you can influence the world around you and not just for your own interests. The US good/bad/indifferent by it's actions have helped the world reach the highest standard of living the world has seen. There are many factors to being an empire not just wealth an power.

He is not bound by the constituion as we are. His agenda is to destroy the USA...enuf said

Originally posted by wouldu
He is not bound by the constituion as we are. His agenda is to destroy the USA...enuf said

That's not true. - no citizen is 'unbound' from the Constitution. And even IF he were acting to "destroy the USA" the agenda is certainly not his alone - hell, it wouldn't even be 'his' idea. You need a lot of help to tear down this Republic. And professional (career) politicians are notoriously ineffectual.

We can be hurt (obviously) by I refuse to accept the possibility that as a nation, we are destined to lie down and watch our country subjugated by anyone or anything.

Unless of course, you were being deliberately sarcastic ... in which case I apologize.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Maxmars]

reply to post by wouldu


The agendas started with the supporters of globalization those that thought they could control emerging nations but now the sand castles are crumbling and those emerging nations had learned from the best, our own USA, they have study our history our marvel of ingenuity and our ability to stay united, but learning is how they will defeat us, we are a nation so divided that we don't even make our own government accountable for anything anymore.

reply to post by plumranch


I assume you have simply overlooked the second paragraph in your rush to judgement.

Commerce officials say the shift will not cause controls to be loosened in regards to the export of missile and space technology.

reply to post by grover

I assume you have simply overlooked the second paragraph in your rush to judgement.

We've covered that aspect in this thread but the considerations are:

1) Commerce department is pro Obama and glossing over the obvious reckless nature of this dangerous action. Or..

2) Obama knows what he is doing in spite of his obvious inexperience and isn't giving them anything valuable and/or up to date. Anything transferred will need to go ahead from the military (although the article says just the Commerce department has oversight)

3) Obama is giving them missile technology of value but he is doing it to soften China's stance on lending the US more money and putting us further into unending debt. Or..

4) Obama is sucking up the the Chinese so they will work with the US to control Iran.

You take your pick, Grover. I'm sure in your mind your hero can do no wrong.

reply to post by plumranch

Sorry but no politician has ever been my hero.

reply to post by marg6043

China having 1 Trillion plus of reserves in American dollar minus what they have change for other currencies has been very busy buying everything the mighty dollar can buy.

China is really in more trouble than it appears. They may own a lot of US debt but they have about an equal amount of potentially bad debt internally. The China good old boy system (similar to what the Japanese had/have) has led to lending not based on sound economic principles and incredible amounts of bad debt or about 1/4 of their total GDP.

Bad debt can hide in a thriving economy but not in times like now when the world is in relative recession and inventories are piling up.

I think of China as a paper tiger, a house of cards. It has too many critical problems that could surface at any time.

People always say China has a quarter of the worlds people, bla, bla etc., but those citizens are not all happy campers esp. now.

[edit on 16/10/09 by plumranch]

Originally posted by RoofMonkey
Just like opening up our nuclear sites to Russia got them on board too eh?

There can be no sanctions on Iran without the Russians and the Chinese. Obama is between a rock and a hard place. Yes, he's trying to get Russians to cooperate. Eventually, in that regard, he'll have to resort to a stick in addition to small carrots he's been feeding them.

reply to post by plumranch


Hey you didn't hear what they did with their banks derivatives contracts, a month ago, they actually defaulted on their derivatives, like that they cleaned up their banks from bad paper took billions from the IMF and put it on gold.

Stupid they are not, it was a thread on that no long time ago, you can find part of the story in the Market data thread.

Something US should have done but rather put the burden on the tax payer.

Yeah, when you practice protectionism you are the master of your own destiny.

Originally posted by buddhasystem


Slayer, I don't think the Chinese can easily foreclose on us because that would make their huge pile of dollars worthless, while possibly driving up the rate of the Euro and hence hurting their exports even further.

This argument has held true for a long time, but it has a critical flaw: If the US keeps on selling massive amounts of bonds and relying on them more and more, they eventually become worthless, too.

Its a bit like saying an alcoholic　can't give up drinking because its going to hurt. Well, yes. But if he keeps drinking, its also going to hurt, and may even eventually kill him.

At some point, China may decide to simply "cut its losses" and decide that the evaporation of the value of their dollar reserves is going to happen whether they keep buying or not, so they might as well get something out of the whole mess while they still can -- such as political leverage over the US.

Also, its worth noting that China doesn't have to sell its current holdings to cripple the US government financially -- all they have to do is stop buying, and that will do enough damage.

Originally posted by calcoastseeker

If you visit the White House don't forget to take off your shoes at the door.

It is a custom in all Asian households.

Actually it's a custom in Canada too, mostly because of the not wanting snow tracked in doors.