Why does god play favorites?, page 3

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reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 03:37 AM by platipus

thats absurd and we do not know God very well.

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 03:52 AM by thunderabove

reply to post by Dasher

what exactly am i supposed to get from some bible verses? i still dont get it. you are quoting a book written and edited by a great deal of men over many years.... what are you trying to get across?? i hardly see how scripture can be a legitimate argument in almost any circumstance.

and nwodeath.... have you ever been to a third world country? because the starving kids begging me for food werent real there..

then again i may be taking what you are saying out of context... as you may be saying exactly what i believe, but im not sure.....it seemed a bit preachy

EDIT: dasher, i did read your post before posting my previous post. i found it all rather irrelevant

[edit on 16-10-2009 by thunderabove]

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 04:09 AM by nwodeath

Originally posted by thunderabove
reply to post by Dasher

what exactly am i supposed to get from some bible verses? i still dont get it. you are quoting a book written and edited by a great deal of men over many years.... what are you trying to get across?? i hardly see how scripture can be a legitimate argument in almost any circumstance.

and nwodeath.... have you ever been to a third world country? because the starving kids begging me for food werent real there..

then again i may be taking what you are saying out of context... as you may be saying exactly what i believe, but im not sure.....it seemed a bit preachy

EDIT: dasher, i did read your post before posting my previous post. i found it all rather irrelevant

[edit on 16-10-2009 by thunderabove]

What I mean simply is anything outside yourself is not relevant (real), in one sense. Because people choose their own realities, those starving children decided to have that "experience" when they incarnated, so since it's not you and your experience, it's not important to your reality.

Now if you want to help them out, you are not changing their reality either, until they choose to stop wanting to experience it. (next lifetime) If you could just feed them and give them money, they would still suffer because that is their choice. I do not mean to say they choose it consciously while here and now, but previous to this lifetime and inacrnation.

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 08:15 AM by xelamental

Originally posted by nwodeath

Originally posted by thunderabove
reply to post by Dasher

quoting a bunch of bible verses doesn't accomplish anything.

god does play favorites, another example.

god lets there be evil, rich people; god lets there be poor innocent starving children

god doesn't give a #

You must believe there is something outside of yourself, huh?

Do you even realize that the impressions on your visual cortex being interpreted by your brain is only a set of frequencies and everything we perceive outside us in the world is a reflection of what is going on inside us already. There is no outside reality, only what is on the inside. That is YOUR reality. What goes on in someone else's head is their reality, not yours.

When you see others suffer, you are not seeing God mistreating those people. Those people are not real, in your reality. They are a reflection of you and what you see is your personal lesson, meant for only you.

You are not subject to anyone else's reality only your own, so when you look at something in the world and see it as reality, you make it YOUR reality at that moment. There is no starvation There is no real suffering. Those are illusions of the flesh and physical. If you were starving or suffering, You would be doing it to yourself. Nobody is doing it TO YOU. You perceive it that way, so it becomes so.

You create your own reality, so why give that power to anyone outside yourself. Take responsibility for yourself and quite blaming others.

And give yourself more love too, and acceptance.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by nwodeath]

That's illogical. This isn't the matrix, and you are not Neo. Otherwise you could go stand in front of a bus going 50kph, get hit full frontal, and not get killed. Wanna bet on it?

Make your own reality. We INTERPRET the true reality, which is colored based on our knowledge and experience. We don't create it, otherwise we wouldn't choose to die!

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 11:31 AM by Dasher

Originally posted by thunderabove
reply to post by Dasher

what exactly am i supposed to get from some bible verses? i still dont get it. you are quoting a book written and edited by a great deal of men over many years.... what are you trying to get across?? i hardly see how scripture can be a legitimate argument in almost any circumstance.

I suppose I will try once more in hopes that you are not being disparaging simply because you disagree, but rather because you didn't follow the thoughts I added after the quote. Please keep in mind this was a question about Gods and so I responded with a scripture purposed in clarifying the very subject of the OP.

Originally posted by Dasher
If Pride or Chaos live within a person, they will hate the Eternal.
If OrderCharity live within a person, they will honor the Eternal.

The end of Pride (selfishness) is a sort of "implosion." The end of Chaos (lack of direction/understanding) is a sort of "explosion." Both are cycles, but ones that have an end. Therefore, a person whose spirit is riddled with Chaos and/or Pride will necessarily be confounded by and opposed to Eternal things. However, the person whose spirit rests in the Eternal will honor the Eternal.

In other words, you will go where you set your eyes, but you only set your eyes on what you see as beautiful, but you only see as beautiful what has been put in your spirit. So, either into the Void or into the Eternal we go! Pride and/or Chaos (Void), or the perfect balance of perpetual OrderCharity (Eternal).

Originally posted by Dasher
Part of a plant is eaten, part is burned/decomposed. It is all one plant, none greater than another, but part has a greater purpose of becoming One with They who commune, the other has a great purpose of becoming examples of the power of They who consume.

Many scriptures refer to Gods as a consuming fire. For those who set their eyes on Pride and/or Chaos, they are as the part of the plant that is burned or decomposed in Void. They are given much longsuffering (a form of Charity), but it is only a temporary situation. Many scriptures refer to Gods as Eternally One. For those who set their eyes on OrderCharity, they are as the part of the plant that is eaten by Gods. They are consumed by Gods in a different way, and just like food becomes part of our body, they become part of Gods' body.

Originally posted by thunderabove
and nwodeath.... have you ever been to a third world country? because the starving kids begging me for food werent real there..

then again i may be taking what you are saying out of context... as you may be saying exactly what i believe, but im not sure.....it seemed a bit preachy

EDIT: dasher, i did read your post before posting my previous post. i found it all rather irrelevant

I suppose that I follow your sarcasm, but it is not a very gracious or productive way to unify with your neighbor. Maybe in person we can get away with such things without causing too much Chaos, but the internet is already such an impediment to healthy human connection. While I expect you will think this to be preachy, I can only hope and ask that you will control Pride and be content to disagree without continuing any commentary that does not build up anyone.

Originally posted by xelamental

Originally posted by nwodeath
You create your own reality, so why give that power to anyone outside yourself. Take responsibility for yourself and quite blaming others.

That's illogical. This isn't the matrix, and you are not Neo. Otherwise you could go stand in front of a bus going 50kph, get hit full frontal, and not get killed. Wanna bet on it?

@ nwodeath
I very much agree with xelamental in this discounting of relativism. Although, I might have used the words;

There is much beyond our ability to see, there is much beyond our ability to control. There is much beyond our ability to be, there is much beyond our ability to understand.

These things do not define anything except our own limitations. Therefore, it is rooted in much Pride and Chaos for a person to assume that their observations/will define Truth.

If you understand your limitations and are thankful for your abilities, you are rooted in much OrderCharity.

Give to God with all of your heart, soul, and mind.
Give to your neighbor as yourself.

reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 11:53 AM by redoubt

Originally posted by xelamental
God creates us all according to theists.
Recent research shows that the higher your IQ, the less likely you are to believe in god. But god made us.

Does that mean that he embedded in some of us a predisposition to not believe in him, and in others a predisposition to believing?

Theists tell me: Why would a god do such a thing if he truly loves each of us equally?

BTW I am an athiest, but I am generally interested in your thoughts on this.

I will not blow a warm wind up your ass and tell you that I have all the answers. There are simply too many questions to be answered by a single person. And perhaps... just perhaps, that is the whole thing.

Humanity is a test of a concept that the greater whole can be divided to individual cells and each will do better as an individual than as part of a collective whole.

Time tested, the theory holds its own because it was the arrival of the American state that gave the individual the right and so too, the power to express thought into invention.

It really just complicates the hell out of the idea of a collective doing more then the one. But history does bear out that while the single mind free to think can and will think better, it also releases the greed factor as a prime motivator.

In the end, the experiment goes on and with each generation, the question remains.

No answers here but if you missed the question... it's your own fault.

reply posted on 18-10-2009 @ 09:50 AM by xelamental

Originally posted by redoubt

Originally posted by xelamental
God creates us all according to theists.
Recent research shows that the higher your IQ, the less likely you are to believe in god. But god made us.

Does that mean that he embedded in some of us a predisposition to not believe in him, and in others a predisposition to believing?

Theists tell me: Why would a god do such a thing if he truly loves each of us equally?

BTW I am an athiest, but I am generally interested in your thoughts on this.

I will not blow a warm wind up your ass and tell you that I have all the answers. There are simply too many questions to be answered by a single
person. And perhaps... just perhaps, that is the whole thing.

Humanity is a test of a concept that the greater whole can be divided to individual cells and each will do better as an individual than as part of a collective whole.

Time tested, the theory holds its own because it was the arrival of the American state that gave the individual the right and so too, the power to express thought into invention.

It really just complicates the hell out of the idea of a collective doing more then the one. But history does bear out that while the single mind free to think can and will think better, it also releases the greed factor as a prime motivator.

In the end, the experiment goes on and with each generation, the question remains.

No answers here but if you missed the question... it's your own fault.

My claim was that it's not my fault if "god" made me this way. If he programmed in me logic that enables me to look at the world objectively, that's on him, if he's real.

And for someone with no claim of answers, you sure do promote some. Some would say your concept of emergent properties is actually a core tenet of evolution, and the arise of consciousness in man. Randomness increasing information; who would have thought?

reply posted on 18-10-2009 @ 12:43 PM by Dasher

Originally posted by xelamental
My claim was that it's not my fault if "god" made me this way. If he programmed in me logic that enables me to look at the world objectively, that's on him, if he's real.

I will quote myself (with some cleanup) since I did directly respond to this and didn't seem to receive your analysis, of which I am greatly curious about.

Originally posted by Dasher
Rom 9:18-23
Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory
---

Part of a plant is eaten, part is burned/decomposed. It is all one plant, none greater than another, but part has a greater purpose of becoming One with They who commune, the other has a great purpose of becoming examples of the power of They who consume.

Foolish understanding tells us that all are given to equally.
Wise understanding sees correctly that we are all given to.

You will know and become who you are by knowing who/what you set your eyes on. I am thankful to the Creators for all they have given me. I have done nothing apart from them except rebel in Chaos or Pride. They who are OrderCharity, the Fullness and Perfection, the Beginning and End, the Good Judges of all judges and all things, They who are One and united, They who give mercy and blindness, They are my God.

As all non-spiritual animals (men who are bad judges included) are one, all good judges (an animal's understanding is a gift from God) are one.

reply posted on 18-10-2009 @ 01:06 PM by Vanitas

Originally posted by pieman
as far as i could see, the reasearch only showed that the higher your IQ, the less likely you are to admit to believing in god in the current social climate.

That's because the "IQ" that such tests (which have been contentious for many decades now) are supposed to measure is actually adaptability.

(BTW, a research study does not equal "research"- and that's even without considering the all-important question: who funded that study...)

And that's all I am ever going to say in this thread.

N.B. When referring to the God of the monotheistic religions, the only proper way of writing the name is with a capital G. It's a basic cultural distinction, so it's not optional - unless, of course, one writes ALL names in lower case, disregarding the current rules of grammar. To each their own.

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Vanitas]

reply posted on 18-10-2009 @ 01:26 PM by nwodeath

reply to post by xelamental

You might not choose to die, but I would. So, maybe you aren't creating reality like you could be, maybe you are subjected to it, like a pet rock or something.

reply posted on 18-10-2009 @ 01:30 PM by ghaleon12

Maybe its a matter of left vs. right brain. Emotional intelligence isn't measured of course on an IQ test. Heart vs. mind maybe.

Something interesting that I've read. The extent to which a person is "smart" or "intelligent" is the extent to which they can get that which they want. Simple, practical, makes sense. So IQ tests really aren't a practical measure of intelligence. A guy can be a living computer and have an IQ of 190, and lets say his goal is getting 5 million dollars. And a regular guy, lazy lets say, normal IQ and has the same goal. Lazy guy gets the goal, while the other is left no where near, who is smarter? Or if one person has a desire for an afterlife, and the other doesn't, what does that tell about a person's intellect. I'm actually curious about that question..

I think it also brings in the question of objectivity vs. subjectivity. Atheists like to go for objectivity or course, but desire and pleasure have to be thought about so things aren't so simple imo. Objectively, a person shouldn't eat that Big Mac but they still do because its pleasurable. But really it seems like they're running on the same subjectivity that humans as a whole run on.

[edit on 18-10-2009 by ghaleon12]

reply posted on 18-10-2009 @ 05:20 PM by Dasher

Originally posted by nwodeath
reply to post by xelamental

You might not choose to die, but I would. So, maybe you aren't creating reality like you could be, maybe you are subjected to it, like a pet rock or something.

I really thought about this one a long time. I hope it makes sense. I agree with your statement 100%!
It is good to know where we come from.

Chaos and Pride act without form or movement in continuity, quantum particles act without non-quantum mechanical physics in continuity, rocks act without programming in continuity, animals act without judgment in continuity, judges (gods) act without goodness in continuity, good judges act without perfection in continuity, and Life who gives all is eternal.

The Son's of Gods move through the Chaos and Pride, always being given life to move closer to Light.
The Son's of the Temporary come from and return to increasingly beautiful forms of Chaos and Pride.

The next step for the good judges in the dance of the eternal are not of these cosmos. All others can know their fate by knowing what they are. With regards to men, some are still animals, some are still gods, some are good gods and they await perfection in communion with all who are One. Christ the Creator, who is their oldest brother, and Spirit the Comforter, who is their spiritual senses, are in them and bonds them until then.

All freedom is a gift, but not all freedom is eternally free.

reply posted on 18-10-2009 @ 05:35 PM by Dasher

Originally posted by ghaleon12Objectively, a person shouldn't eat that Big Mac but they still do because its pleasurable. But really it seems like they're running on the same subjectivity that humans as a whole run on.

I rarely eat processed food. Meaning, refined sugar, xantham gum, refined flour, overly cooked food, etc. The key is to know what makes the food corrupt or good and know how much your body is content to consume. For some things like processed sugar or meat, my body really feels terrible after. Xantham gum doesn't hurt so much, but since it can have long term effects, I generally don't have it.

Not a single thing is, in and of itself, bad. It is knowing it's use. In my judgment, McDonalds qualifies as a doorstop. Any time I need a doorstop that smells overwhelmingly tempting to eat, I will use a Big Mac. If someone else thinks it good to eat McDonalds, their body has appropriate bowel movements and is able to make good use of the nutrients, etc.... as long as they are being honest in their best judgment, they are a good judge too. Someone who eats/lives without thought, is a slave.

In other words, life is about being a good judge. If you are not, than you are nearly an animal, or, if being sarcastic, a rock.

[edit on 10/18/2009 by Dasher]

reply posted on 19-10-2009 @ 07:33 AM by xelamental

Originally posted by nwodeath
reply to post by xelamental

You might not choose to die, but I would. So, maybe you aren't creating reality like you could be, maybe you are subjected to it, like a pet rock or something.

That's a complete cop out! Thinking that you create your reality is akin to believing you have special powers, but *choose* not to use them. That's ludicrous neo!

reply posted on 19-10-2009 @ 07:37 AM by xelamental

Originally posted by Dasher

Originally posted by nwodeath
reply to post by xelamental

You might not choose to die, but I would. So, maybe you aren't creating reality like you could be, maybe you are subjected to it, like a pet rock or something.

I really thought about this one a long time. I hope it makes sense. I agree with your statement 100%!
It is good to know where we come from.

Chaos and Pride act without form or movement in continuity, quantum particles act without non-quantum mechanical physics in continuity, rocks act without programming in continuity, animals act without judgment in continuity, judges (gods) act without goodness in continuity, good judges act without perfection in continuity, and Life who gives all is eternal.

The Son's of Gods move through the Chaos and Pride, always being given life to move closer to Light.
The Son's of the Temporary come from and return to increasingly beautiful forms of Chaos and Pride.

The next step for the good judges in the dance of the eternal are not of these cosmos. All others can know their fate by knowing what they are. With regards to men, some are still animals, some are still gods, some are good gods and they await perfection in communion with all who are One. Christ the Creator, who is their oldest brother, and Spirit the Comforter, who is their spiritual senses, are in them and bonds them until then.

All freedom is a gift, but not all freedom is eternally free.

I would like to reply, but I seriously don't understand anything you are talking about. It's like reading a "gurus" website or something, a lot of text, no information.

Are you saying that you create your own reality? Whats with your love affair with Chaos and Pride? Can you speak in non-guru for a few moments so I can actually understand the core of your argument?

Remember; great minds say more with less.

reply posted on 19-10-2009 @ 12:50 PM by Dasher

Originally posted by xelamental
I would like to reply, but I seriously don't understand anything you are talking about. It's like reading a "gurus" website or something, a lot of text, no information.

Are you saying that you create your own reality? Whats with your love affair with Chaos and Pride? Can you speak in non-guru for a few moments so I can actually understand the core of your argument?

Remember; great minds say more with less.

I use common proofs that are reasonably accepted by common sense to point at things that are quite deeper than the common mind is usually willing to keep it's attention on. Maybe you should ask me to elaborate instead of decreasing my words.

Regardless, to decrease my words;

Originally posted by Dasher
Chaos and Pride act without form or movement in continuity, quantum particles act without non-quantum mechanical physics in continuity, rocks act without programming in continuity, animals act without judgment in continuity, judges (gods) act without goodness in continuity, good judges act without perfection in continuity, and Life who gives all is eternal.

The road to Life (that which is eternal) begins in absolute Chaos and Pride and contains minimal life, but the road to Life becomes narrow in OrderCharity and contains everlasting Life.

To elaborate;

However, this contradiction is only an illusion of this realm, for Chaos and Pride are far more attractive to our carnal nature than OrderCharity, but Chaos and Pride are, by nature, self-destructive and OrderCharity, by nature, is everlasting.

Those who are given a Soul of Life which grows up from Chaos and Pride, and are also given a Spirit from the Creators, they will continue on to true freedom without end and will be given a new body like they were given a new "breath of life." These truly have Life and will be glorified with the Creators.

Those who are given a Soul of Life which grows up from Chaos and Pride, but are not given a Spirit from the Creators, they will return to the self-destructive "freedoms" of this realm. These are the "rocks" that rise up and worship OrderCharity well, albeit unwillingly.

From Chaos, to the edges of our understanding (quantum physics), to more common understanding (classical physics), to rocks which are ruled by physics and do not enjoy the benefits of moving by programming (DNA), to animals which do not enjoy the benefits of the spiritual gifts of judging, to judges who do not enjoy the spiritual gifts of judging well, to the good judges who do not enjoy the gifts of perfection, to Perfection who has promised the good judges the gifts of perfection after this realm has passed away, we can follow limits and abilities and find that we share so much with everything around us.

I say again, from the void between particles, to the particles around it, to the structures formed by them, to the great forms formed by them, to the greater forms formed by them, to the greater forms transcending forms, to the transcending forms that transcend the limits of this realm... from Everything, to Nothing, God has entered and mastered all things.

All of life is simply the resulting dance of the dust. What are we if not simply the dirt dancing around? We are the glorious dance of God's victory over all things. In the cycles of life, we see OrderCharity. In the cycles of death, we see OrderCharity. In the path of eternal life, we become OrderCharity.

You will go where your eyes are set.

Luk 19:37-40
Then, as He was now drawing near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works they had seen, saying: "Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the LORD! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!" And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, "Teacher, rebuke Your disciples." But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out."

reply posted on 19-10-2009 @ 12:59 PM by westcoast

I'll admit that I only read the original post and nothing else. I would just like to give a simple answer.

My IQ is around 140 (a bit higher than average) and I very much believe in God. HOWEVER...I question things. I am not a blind follower and I think that many things in the bible have been taken too literally.

So.....while I do not think having a high IQ means you do not believe in God, it does mean that you are a thinker and therefore tend to ask more questions and look for the anwers, rather than have them fed to you.

reply posted on 19-10-2009 @ 01:09 PM by Dasher

Originally posted by xelamental
Whats with your love affair with Chaos and Pride?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I suppose I find it difficult to explain something so "big" with words in the first place, but then to also keep it short, well I can only do my best. Chaos and Pride are the opposite and inverse of God. So they are very important to speak of since God is much more difficult to discuss directly and plainly.

[edit on 10/19/2009 by Dasher]

reply posted on 19-10-2009 @ 09:27 PM by ReHaBzWuRdZ

reply posted on 20-10-2009 @ 10:07 AM by xelamental

Originally posted by Dasher

Originally posted by xelamental
Whats with your love affair with Chaos and Pride?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I suppose I find it difficult to explain something so "big" with words in the first place, but then to also keep it short, well I can only do my best. Chaos and Pride are the opposite and inverse of God. So they are very important to speak of since God is much more difficult to discuss directly and plainly.

[edit on 10/19/2009 by Dasher]

I still feel there is a divide in our understanding. Define chaos, pride, and "ordercharity". Where do you get your information from regarding your concepts?