On a scale from 0-100 how much do you trust the U.S government ??

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by praxis
These people are far more than evil -- they are kidnapping, torturing, mass murdering, stealing criminal trash.

According to the hate-literature and indoctrinated and cultish "conspiracy-theory"-beliefs that propose that all authority is evil and all people who trust authority are "stupid sheeple" and they themselves "superior in knowledge".

I did not say that all authority is evil. But the simple truth is -- at this stage in our evolution -- absolute power corrupts absolutely. And our federal government is absolutely, completely corrupt.

Want to call that a cult belief? Why don't you talk to the families of the children murdered at Mena, Arkansas to protect the CIA's coc aine smuggling operations? Why don't you ask the victims and survivors of US government experimentation with drugs, disease, radiation and mental programming? Why don't you ask the victims and survivors of false-flag exercises and undercover operations around the world? Why don't you ask the Vietnamese, Iraqi and Afghan victims? Why don't you ask the victims of US 'foreign policy' in Central and South America?

Perhaps you can tell us where 2.3 trillion missing dollars went on 9/10/2001? Perhaps you can tell us where 360 TONS of US $100 bills disappeared to in Iraq? Maybe you can tell us why there was no investigation of either incident? Maybe you can tell us why our government is collapsing our economy by stealing our assets and giving it alway to Wall Street and foreign buddies?

I understand the depth of the crimes being committed by our government against us and foreign nationals. It sounds like you could use some education.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Rebuttal to all who responded to my earlier post:

Assigning 0 on a 0-100 scale indicates irrationality because there is no such thing as 100% evil. "The" Government constists of thousands of people like you and me.

The only thing troubling is how many people here are brainwashed-to-hate-unconditionally.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

Where did the "hate" come from?

I have family in the gov't.

I love some of the people that are in the gov't. They are powerless to fix the problems that exist.

I don't put one ounce of trust into the gov't itself however. I fear that I will be accidently swept up in some terror sweep because I disagree with their policies, and laws. I disagree with most of the taxes I pay to keep our GIANT BEHEMOTH of a government running on a daily basis.

I believe that it is helpful to have a government, as long as you live in a true republic, and the laws are just. You can have a peaceful and prosperous life, similar to the early days of American history.

But when your government has been hijacked by corporations through lobbying, and laws are enacted that serve the needs of big business, laws that hurt the people, it is your duty to stand up and say NO WAY!

According to Thomas Jefferson it is our duty to break laws that have no place so that a Jury can nullify them.

Our government is not trustworthy. We need to start over with it honestly.

100

I am not saying that just to get a rise out of you.

I trust the government for a number of reasons, I will be happy to list them here.

1.) Despite what has been written my countless people over quite a few years, the government has yet to take over my life...Other then the fact that I enlisted, but that was by choice, and I enjoy it.

2.) Despite what you may think about the government using soldiers as test subjects with out the soldiers knowing, it’s in the enlistment contract, so moral of the story there, read the papers your going to sign.

3.) I can trust the legislative branch to argue and horse trade until they get next to nothing done. At the end of the day, we have only our selves to blame for the government we have.

4.) For all of you who like to say that the military industrial complex is out to take over the world. Well, you've got me there, lucky for you most of us with guns happen to think like American citizens. Shocking as it may sound; we are American citizens as well. You should see how large the 'Alternative view point' section is in the Base Exchange on some bases.

5.) For some, who are so sent the 'they are out to get me' mode, everything the government does is wrong, or in some way evil. If the government makes laws to limit hand guns in an effort to curb gun related violence, they are infringing on our rights. If they do nothing, then they are wrong for allowing the darker elements of our society to prey on the weak. So the government is in a catch 22 almost all of the time.

6.) Because I know this, I can trust the government to anger someone or group every time it makes a decision.

7.) If you think that a future is coming where everyone will be watched to thought crime, well ask yourself this. Why am I so special that a vast monolithic body like the federal government will want to watch me all of the time? I know for a fact that if the government as a whole harms me, one of two things has happened:
A: I broke a law
B: I was crushed by the burocrats (sp), who are no more evil then a tree which falls on a house.
Please remember that most of the time, what you may mistake for malice or intent often is just oversight by the people who have more important things to worry about then you personally.

8.) Man, I'm on a roll. Please bare in mind that you are free to do something about any grievance you have against the government, up to and including taking up arms against them, however, also remember that the government is free to kill you back, and no matter how many people you may assemble to try and take on 'the government' you will be crushed, if they are as evil as you say.

So, because I know the nature of the beast that is 'Government' I can trust them to do exactly what they have always done. Nothing. That is, nothing until a huge problem arises that needs to be addressed, and then we get the Patriot act that no one reads and gets voted into law almost with out opposition.

You complain about the government as if it is a force of nature, you would be more reasonable if you were to be angry with polar bears for killing and eating seals. It’s just what they do. Besides, I am sure that no one was two broken up about a national road system to allow people to safely drive from coast to coast, but I am sure that some people hated the exact location of some of the roads.

I am sorry about the wall of text, but people who seem to not trust the government just seem foolish to me. The government is not designed to be your friend. Trust the government to do what it was designed to do, and you will have no problems.

Oh and by they way, can anyone site examples where the 'Government' has committed the crimes of theft, murder, and other such claims. I would be happy to argue for the government, they seem to get precious little say on this particular forum.

Originally posted by Obinhi
100

I am not saying that just to get a rise out of you.

I trust the government for a number of reasons, I will be happy to list them here.

ROTF. Now that's seriously irrational.

You wanna be an apologist for raping and murdering nuns, you go right ahead. If some angry foreign national removes your head from your body, I won't shed a tear......

Well concidering all the lies and manipulation that the Goverment which is supposed to represent the people goes through to control and socially engineer the poeple, a 0 is a rewarding number for me.

Given that, I trust that although humanity is in nearly every form of dictatorship, and totaltarian rule now by some form of government enslavement, I give a 100 to trusting yourself these days.

Trust THE people NOT THE GOVERNMENT!


0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHY!?

Look at 9/11!!! LIES ALL OVER THE PLACE!

[edit on 10/15/2009 by ugie1028]

reply to post by Obinhi


I appreciate your candor and directness.

100! That really skews the curve eh?

I have to start by admitting that confessing that my answer would have come in the form of a question.

Could you please define 'government'?

You see, I am one of those who feels that we (generally speaking) have many authorities that 'govern' us; not the least of which is the political government. I feel the town supervisor, or alderman is not as free to engage in shenanigans as the 'big players' in the celebrity political game show the media sells us. But some do indeed try.

I think that many of us allow ourselves to be governed by many things, from our bosses at work to our minsters, priests, and rabbis; from homeowners associations to PTA's and so on.... even our children are governed by their clubs and and gangs.

For me there can't be a single answer unless I know exactly which form of governance I'm evaluating.

Then there is the matter of trust. 'Trust' to what? Trust to live up to my greatest desires of what they should be? Trust to be benevolent, or at least unbiased in dealing with me or mine? Trust to be dedicated to honor and dignity, respect and reason?

It's a tough question.

But you issued a challenge ... I would like to eventually get to that challenge...

I will conform to your post, if you don't mind...,

1) Thank you for enlisting. Your commitment to defend the Constitution deserves respect.

2) It is true that military service includes relinquishing certain civil liberties, such as the right to refuse.

3) The inadequacies of the political machinery embedded within the government are part and parcel of allowing the cult of personality to determine who our leaders will be. They are not their for you and I, they are their for their own career and aspirations. We accept that this is tolerable, mostly because we are told that it has to be this way... of course, reasonable people know it does not. The debate and horse-trade into oblivion is a side show. The laws and matter THEY care about are all attended to, THEY have the finest health care coverage on the planet, THEY have lifetime security and protection, THEIR mere presence anywhere generates income for the media... so yes you can trust them to be EXACTLY what they are now, virtually worthless puppets to their benefactor's agenda.

4) I believe you. I am very likely much older than you are so you may not be aware that the veteran's of my era are always saying to one another, this IS NOT the country I served... it has been changed... and the manner and form of the change was not a 'good' thing.

5) The government is not a person, but those in government WANT us to perceive it and treat it as if it were..., it's a corporate thing. Thus the failings in the behavior of policy-makers or the systemic deficiencies can be forgiven.... If you realize that policy is not LAW, you may find yourself also questioning how these 'governmental' catch-22's are allowed to exist, and in some cases actually engineered into existence.

6) Again, the government is not a person, it is a thing. Things, generally speaking, don't anger me, but people sometimes do. People in government often operate as if they were somehow 'in charge' rather than the servants they are... that does occasionally annoy me.

7) If you don't mind. I disagree with something here. (Although I too have reminded people that few are ever targeted by the government.)

OOPS - hit reply instead of preview......... more coming........

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Maxmars]

I know for a fact that if the government as a whole harms me, one of two things has happened:
A: I broke a law
B: I was crushed by the burocrats (sp), who are no more evil then a tree which falls on a house.
Please remember that most of the time, what you may mistake for malice or intent often is just oversight by the people who have more important things to worry about then you personally.

A. It is possible, and has been proven to happen that people have been accused and convicted of a crime they never committed. It has happened because of many factors that are not part of the government ... usually it was the failings of the people who are in the positions of authority... bias, greed, lust for power, and many others.

Justice is not guaranteed. The government is supposed to be focused on the just application of governance to all citizens. It has failed - repeatedly.

B. Bureaucracies are not evil, bureaucrats can be. Because they are people. Good people try to eliminate the inhuman nature of bureaucracy. They don't frequently succeed. As for them having more important things to concern themselves with than us personally. Then they shouldn't be 'serving' the public. The public good is what the government is supposed to value over everything else. Not their plans or schemes nor their desires for political relevance.

8) Spot on. I think people should understand this more clearly when the rant about taking up arms against the government.

I think the legislators that passed the Patriot act are really not the 'servants of the public' they pretend to be. We KNOW that they hardly ever read legislation, we KNOW they don't care to and feel they shouldn't be obliged to. They do as the party leaders command. Sort of like the old USSR. Funny that.

The government is a construct of society. It does - or is intended to do - what we TELL THEM TO DO. There is not a 'nature' of government. People have nature. A government is a tool to maintain order for the benefit of it's citizens. If it fails at that, it is a poor government. We have designed a government, engineered a tool, so to speak. But the craftsmen we hire to use the tool seem hell-bent on 'deciding' how to use the tool and for what, despite their status as our servants.

Oh and by they way, can anyone site examples where the 'Government' has committed the crimes of theft, murder, and other such claims. I would be happy to argue for the government, they seem to get precious little say on this particular forum.

Wow, I finally got to the challenge.... (and you thought YOU had a wall of text to apologize for )

There are a lot of examples.... In fact, more than I can do now because of my own time limitations and (and text size)....

So I will limit myself to a few and if you want to continue further I'll come back for seconds...

Example: "Crimes of theft, murder, and other such claims."

- Undisclosed non-consensual irradiation of mental patients for determining the lethality of radioactive poisoning.

- The secret dispersion of biological weapons in major metropolitan American cities to determine vectors effectiveness.

- The deliberate embargo of information regarding technologies that were seized by the government - technology that could improve the lives of everyone on the planet. The technology was suppressed to protect the commercial interests of robber barons.

- The CIA.

Do you think it necessary for me to specify more explicitly - with links etc. or do you recognize any of those events as something you have heard of?

Sorry - gotta run!

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Maxmars]

reply to post by letspreadtruth


80(+)

It has increased from (-)100 from the Bush era.

100.

I trust them completely.

To be consistent.

A scale without negative numbers is not a scale, it's a biased scale.

reply to post by letspreadtruth

Zero

Things like Operation Northwoods, and Operation Garden Plot,
Project Air America, all the things mentioned in confessions
of an economic hitman.

There are many many more, and if u want them I can provide
them but I figured you already knew most of them as they are
posted in various places all over ATS.

Many ppl have come forward, but fortunately for those in power
most ppl do not read anymore.

Good Luck to you all !

reply to post by fraterormus

Great post, great insight thankyou.

Originally posted by letspreadtruth
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Again I cannot disagree, what would the government have to do to regain your trust ??

UFO disclosure sure would help.

about a -100 and going lower by the minute.

They sold us out to the highest bidder. I think we are about to follow in the foot steps of the former USSR and the Roman Empire while Qbama plays the fiddle.

I say 86. Me? Really?





Yep, 86 the whole damned thing. Set down with Constitution and re-send all amendments back to the states for re-ratification.

Hmm

Lets start with 100..lose 10 points because my party doesnt always win, lose another 10 each time they interfere with my personal freedoms (so far, that has only been done once)
lose 10 at general effectiveness of the setup to begin with.
lose 10 out of general paranoia
raise 20 that the top is now finally a diplomat
lose 25 for coverups that have no actual national security purpose for being covered up beyond very old beliefs
lose 10 for not adhering to consensus scientists
fluctuate 10 points daily.

So, my rather unscientific score is currently:
35 (give or take)

a improvement...a few years back, it would have been at about 10.

Zero , they've been usurped by Big Business. We'll soon be living in a dystopia if it continues this way.

reply to post by letspreadtruth


Twenty five percent.

Why?

I believe certain types go into politics at a national level.
Track record.
Justification for lying could be "for the greater good"

And twenty-five is being kind.

Collectively? Basically zero, but I'm sure there are SOME good people in the government. Though they're probably a minority.

After all that has gone on in the past months I would say I trust them Zero! They hide everything and basically feel we are to stupid to deal with any major information. They need to take care of us and we need to be the good little children. We need obey and not ask questions because we don't know what is good for us. Government does not trust us as we do not trust them!