reply to post by Obinhi
I appreciate your candor and directness.
100! That really skews the curve eh?
I have to start by admitting that confessing that my answer would have come in the form of a question.
Could you please define 'government'?
You see, I am one of those who feels that we (generally speaking) have many authorities that 'govern' us; not the least of which is the political
government. I feel the town supervisor, or alderman is not as free to engage in shenanigans as the 'big players' in the celebrity political game
show the media sells us. But some do indeed try.
I think that many of us allow ourselves to be governed by many things, from our bosses at work to our minsters, priests, and rabbis; from homeowners
associations to PTA's and so on.... even our children are governed by their clubs and and gangs.
For me there can't be a single answer unless I know exactly which form of governance I'm evaluating.
Then there is the matter of trust. 'Trust' to what? Trust to live up to my greatest desires of what they should be? Trust to be benevolent, or at
least unbiased in dealing with me or mine? Trust to be dedicated to honor and dignity, respect and reason?
It's a tough question.
But you issued a challenge ... I would like to eventually get to that challenge...
I will conform to your post, if you don't mind...,
1) Thank you for enlisting. Your commitment to defend the Constitution deserves respect.
2) It is true that military service includes relinquishing certain civil liberties, such as the right to refuse.
3) The inadequacies of the political machinery embedded within the government are part and parcel of allowing the cult of personality to determine who
our leaders will be. They are not their for you and I, they are their for their own career and aspirations. We accept that this is tolerable, mostly
because we are told that it has to be this way... of course, reasonable people know it does not. The debate and horse-trade into oblivion is a side
show. The laws and matter THEY care about are all attended to, THEY have the finest health care coverage on the planet, THEY have lifetime security
and protection, THEIR mere presence anywhere generates income for the media... so yes you can trust them to be EXACTLY what they are now, virtually
worthless puppets to their benefactor's agenda.
4) I believe you. I am very likely much older than you are so you may not be aware that the veteran's of my era are always saying to one another,
this IS NOT the country I served... it has been changed... and the manner and form of the change was not a 'good' thing.
5) The government is not a person, but those in government WANT us to perceive it and treat it as if it were..., it's a corporate thing. Thus the
failings in the behavior of policy-makers or the systemic deficiencies can be forgiven.... If you realize that policy is not LAW, you may find
yourself also questioning how these 'governmental' catch-22's are allowed to exist, and in some cases actually engineered into existence.
6) Again, the government is not a person, it is a thing. Things, generally speaking, don't anger me, but people sometimes do. People in government
often operate as if they were somehow 'in charge' rather than the servants they are... that does occasionally annoy me.
7) If you don't mind. I disagree with something here. (Although I too have reminded people that few are ever targeted by the government.)
OOPS - hit reply instead of preview......... more coming........
[edit on 15-10-2009 by Maxmars]
I know for a fact that if the government as a whole harms me, one of two things has happened:
A: I broke a law
B: I was crushed by the burocrats (sp), who are no more evil then a tree which falls on a house.
Please remember that most of the time, what you may mistake for malice or intent often is just oversight by the people who have more important things
to worry about then you personally.
A. It is possible, and has been proven to happen that people have been accused and convicted of a crime they never committed. It has happened
because of many factors that are not part of the government ... usually it was the failings of the people who are in the positions of authority...
bias, greed, lust for power, and many others.
Justice is not guaranteed. The government is supposed to be focused on the just application of governance to all citizens. It has failed -
B. Bureaucracies are not evil, bureaucrats can be. Because they are people. Good people try to eliminate the inhuman nature of bureaucracy. They
don't frequently succeed. As for them having more important things to concern themselves with than us personally. Then they shouldn't be
'serving' the public. The public good is what the government is supposed to value over everything else. Not their plans or schemes nor their
desires for political relevance.
8) Spot on. I think people should understand this more clearly when the rant about taking up arms against the government.
I think the legislators that passed the Patriot act are really not the 'servants of the public' they pretend to be. We KNOW that they hardly ever
read legislation, we KNOW they don't care to and feel they shouldn't be obliged to. They do as the party leaders command. Sort of like the old
USSR. Funny that.
The government is a construct of society. It does - or is intended to do - what we TELL THEM TO DO. There is not a 'nature' of government. People
have nature. A government is a tool to maintain order for the benefit of it's citizens. If it fails at that, it is a poor government. We have
designed a government, engineered a tool, so to speak. But the craftsmen we hire to use the tool seem hell-bent on 'deciding' how to use the tool
and for what, despite their status as our servants.
Oh and by they way, can anyone site examples where the 'Government' has committed the crimes of theft, murder, and other such claims. I would
be happy to argue for the government, they seem to get precious little say on this particular forum.
Wow, I finally got to the challenge.... (and you thought YOU had a wall of text to apologize for
There are a lot of examples.... In fact, more than I can do now because of my own time limitations and (and text size)....
So I will limit myself to a few and if you want to continue further I'll come back for seconds...
Example: "Crimes of theft, murder, and other such claims."
- Undisclosed non-consensual irradiation of mental patients for determining the lethality of radioactive poisoning.
- The secret dispersion of biological weapons in major metropolitan American cities to determine vectors effectiveness.
- The deliberate embargo of information regarding technologies that were seized by the government - technology that could improve the lives of
everyone on the planet. The technology was suppressed to protect the commercial interests of robber barons.
- The CIA.
Do you think it necessary for me to specify more explicitly - with links etc. or do you recognize any of those events as something you have heard
Sorry - gotta run!
[edit on 15-10-2009 by Maxmars]